camber Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 You're stupid because youre getting all upset about unofficial pricing. We'll see.... However, I'm guessing this will be very close to real pricing. Plus, we already know the official Neiman Marcus pricing. Therefore, you won't see a Lexus dealer price drastically different from the Neiman Marcs price. Prepare to pay over $60k for this car. BTW - What with the name calling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 No.... it's an entry luxury car.... I think youre confusing entry level luxury with its size. The IS is supposed to be small and sporty. And comparing it to the C class, well the C class is more bland sedanish, I want to own a Mercedes and be a big deal on my block. The IS offers: voice nav., Mark Levinson sound, bluetooth, push button start, heated/ventilated seats, sound absorbing interior features, real wood accents or metallic, dual zone climate control, smartkey access, HIDs, reverse tilt mirrors, radar cruise control, adaptive headlights, park assist, rain sensing wipers, tire pressure monitor, pre collision system, direct injection, paddle shifters, headlight washers. How many of those features does an upscale LGT have? Heated seats, climate control, tire pressure monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The new C class is a great looking car and still has the quality and features of higher end MBs. The Is suffers from a bad interior design and low quality plastics compared to its competitors. Also, the rear seats are useless. If you going to price the IS over $60k guess which cars you going to have to compete against? It's not the LGT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Well I disagree. Given that I have spent alot of time in my bro's IS300 I must say that the Alacantra seats are nice, the interior quality as nice as my dad's 330 and the back seats accomodate 2 adults decently. The new IS is bigger than the old. Don't forget the Lexus has a loyal following. There are people that shy away from BMW and MB because of quality issues. These people turn to Lexus because of their reputation for high quality cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Lexus doesn't have history of selling small volume performance cars. Also, Lexus does not appeal to the majority of performance oriented buyers. The new Lexus IS350 has had a luke warm sales reception, even though Toyota took huge strides in improving the sporting quotient. I just don't see this being a success for Toyota. Just way too many better cars, for a similar price with audiences already built in. Toyota will have a very tough sell with this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Lexus doesn't have history of selling small volume performance cars. Also, Lexus does not appeal to the majority of performance oriented buyers. Neither did Subaru. Look at them now. It was also questioned if Lexus could pull of selling a car that costs more than $100,000. You couldnt get an LS600h if you tried. Theres a 1 year waiting list last time I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Subaru recent proliferation of performance cars comes from its rallying history. Unfortunately, Lexus has no history of that nature to draw upon. The L600h is an anomaly because of the fact it is a hybrid in that segment and Toyota never intended it to be a volume seller. Hybrid cars are an evolving market and does not have the same history as perfomance cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactojesse Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 It sounds like the IS-F will be priced similarly to the C63. Given that choice, I'd pick the C63 over the IS-F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Subaru recent proliferation of performance cars comes from its rallying history. Unfortunately, Lexus has no history of that nature to draw upon. The L600h is an anomaly because of the fact it is a hybrid in that segment and Toyota never intended it to be a volume seller. Hybrid cars are an evolving market and does not have the same history as perfomance cars. At the same time, the GS, LS, and RX hybrids are the greatest performing cars of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 ? You mean they can acclerate faster in a straight line then their NA counterparts? K... Doesn't mean that they are drivers car's. Also, that was a concious decision on Toyota's part to make hybrids faster then their internal combustion engine only counterparts. Marketeering at its finest.... Toyota is in the game of marketing it self as a green company and trying to proliferate its hybrid technology. Anywways, Lexus IS-F will have a very hard time finding a niche for itself. It is nice to see Toyota to be interested in the perfomance side of cars but this cas is poorly executed. Hopefully, Toyota put more effort into their V10 coupe but I heard that has been delayed and possibly shelved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Well I disagree. Given that I have spent alot of time in my bro's IS300 I must say that the Alacantra seats are nice, the interior quality as nice as my dad's 330 and the back seats accomodate 2 adults decently. The new IS is bigger than the old. Don't forget the Lexus has a loyal following. There are people that shy away from BMW and MB because of quality issues. These people turn to Lexus because of their reputation for high quality cars. The old IS300 had a decent interior and the rear seat headroom didn't blow ass. The new cars have lousy interiors and only midgets or small children can ride in back without knee and headroom issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hopefully, Toyota put more effort into their V10 coupe but I heard that has been delayed and possibly shelved. Then you heard wrong. The V10 is still in production for the GS-F and LF-A. Whats delayed is the hybrid LF-A. It wont be available at launch as originally intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 It was supposed to be at the Tokyo Autoshow this year along with the Honda HSC. However, there aren't even concept of these models at this years show and no ones talking about them! To miss Japan's biggest autoshow without even a concept or mention is not a good sign. It means that the Honda and Toyota are either behind schedule or they are in the midst of dramatic changes to their potential cars. I don't think that Honda or Toyota were expecting the GT-R to be as strong at the price points being suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 63k -68k for this? Lexus is joking right? The new Nissan GT-R will make this thing look silly at the same price. As far as the shifting this is concerned you can change gears in X.XXs but what matters is how long it takes for power to be transmitted to the wheels. You still have to account for torque converter to work and for lock up to take place. Sure you can select a gear in 5 milliseconds but the full power isn't going to the ground yet.... This even applies in a dual clutch tranny as well. If you look at the acceleration Gs of a "DSG" style tranny you can see a dip in the accelerative Gs when both clutchs are not fully engaged. Take a look at acceleration graph of a automatic with torque converted with lock up and you'll see a huge dip in accelerative Gs. Take a look at some of the graphs here and you'll understand what I'm saying: http://www.zeroshift.com/graphs.html There are only two types of transmissions that don't have severe acceleration blips. CVT and Zeroshift.... zero shift is a myth as far as i am concerned...and...autos don't lose boost between shifts unlike manuals. also there is a way to drive an auto. all the auto owners can tell you this. we don't physically shift but we can alter it just by throttle pressure. i'll let the car shift to 2nd sometimes then i'll ride the gas just hard enough so it doesn't shift to first but i get 2nd gear pull with turbo spooling. i can get on it then release a bit let it shift then get on it some more. one CAN drive it without thinking or one CAN make it do what you want without the clutch involvement. btw...check out a shift graph from mercedes and tell me where the shift was. i challenge you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Find me a graph from a Mercedes showing accelerative g's and I'll show you clear shift points with coasting time. For some odd reason Mercedes doesn't post this type of information freely and another odd this is that all of Mercedes competitive race cars don't use torque converter automatics for transmissions. Zeroshift works and it being used by F1 teams.. It otherwise know as "seamless" shift in F1 circles. Although, it is slightly changed to a two dog (bullet type) dog engagement. Ever notice how the heads of F1 drivers don't move anymore during upshifts? I'm waiting for you to prove you case that a OEM production hydraulic torque converter automatic can actually get power to the ground faster then a purely mechanical system. Something tells me you actually won't be able to prove this.... All I have is this little youtube video of C55 AMG with same 5AT that all AMG cars come with and is supposed to be MBs fastest tranny. Watch about nine seconds in, you'll hear the shift of mercedes and notice the jerk of the camera after the the gear finally engages. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5PKGi_9F-M]YouTube - m5board.com presents BMW M5 _VS_ MERCEDES C55 AMG[/ame] That my friend is a gear shift that takes longer then a few milliseconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 zero shift is a myth as far as i am concerned...and...autos don't lose boost between shifts unlike manuals. also there is a way to drive an auto. all the auto owners can tell you this. we don't physically shift but we can alter it just by throttle pressure. i'll let the car shift to 2nd sometimes then i'll ride the gas just hard enough so it doesn't shift to first but i get 2nd gear pull with turbo spooling. i can get on it then release a bit let it shift then get on it some more. one CAN drive it without thinking or one CAN make it do what you want without the clutch involvement. btw...check out a shift graph from mercedes and tell me where the shift was. i challenge you. Dude stop posting. We already know that you are a tool. HAHAHA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Dude stop posting. We already know that you are a tool. HAHAHA. uhhh ok. i could use you to put my tool in if that is what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B. Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Find me a graph from a Mercedes showing accelerative g's and I'll show you clear shift points with coasting time. For some odd reason Mercedes doesn't post this type of information freely and another odd this is that all of Mercedes competitive race cars don't use torque converter automatics for transmissions. Zeroshift works and it being used by F1 teams.. It otherwise know as "seamless" shift in F1 circles. Although, it is slightly changed to a two dog (bullet type) dog engagement. Ever notice how the heads of F1 drivers don't move anymore during upshifts? I'm waiting for you to prove you case that a OEM production hydraulic torque converter automatic can actually get power to the ground faster then a purely mechanical system. Something tells me you actually won't be able to prove this.... All I have is this little youtube video of C55 AMG with same 5AT that all AMG cars come with and is supposed to be MBs fastest tranny. Watch about nine seconds in, you'll hear the shift of mercedes and notice the jerk of the camera after the the gear finally engages. That my friend is a gear shift that takes longer then a few milliseconds. i still believe zero shift is a myth. show me a street application. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeroshift have heard of this myth for a looong time now and have seen NOTHING. also what has been said..."Switching between 2nd and 3rd means changing the engine speed. This can't happen instantaneously." i did say a myth right? side note. the graphs i was going on are from R&T. they always have a graph showing mph and 1/4 times. about every car i have seen graphed shows a jagged jerk at the shift except mercedes. dead smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Right.... A myth... So, I guess F1 cars must be mythical like unicorns? Explain the WOT shift in the youtube video..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Im gonna have to agree with Camber on this one. F1 cars FTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Zeroshift still has sometime to go before it get oem production run. That happaned just like semi-automatics(E-gear, SMG, F1 etc) and dual clutch transmissions which date back in racing decades ago. Innovations used in racing usually take 5-10 years to show up in road cars. Zeroshift type transmissions just started being used in F1 last year by a few top teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Eventhough I believe that both types of transmissions have their places. There is going to be a delay in the power transfer of a torque converter. The way a torque converter works is through a fluid coupling. This type of coupling is slow and inefficient compared to a purely mechanical coupling. Think of blowing through a pinwheel it takes a little bit of time for the fluid motion to spin the turbine. The same is true for a torque converter. In a torque converter based transmission there is always going to be a delay. A gear can shift in miliseconds, but for the primary turbine (pump) to transfer energy to the drive turbine takes significantly more time. Torque converters operate on a speed differential such that there must be a difference between the input turbine and the drive turbine for there to be power transfer. Furthermore the predictability of power transfer and the efficiency of the converter varies with fluid temperature. I have never been happy with the sportyness OR performance of ANY torque converter based manumatic. The manumatics that are truely faster are DSG's such as the BMW M3 box which are converterless. Instead its an electronicly controlled clutch pack. Still not satisfied with the sportyness but the performance of the shifts blow my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobE Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 pricing has officially been announced.....$56,765<~ click http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 That's a small price to pay for the NEW KING OF CARS Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 That's a small price to pay for the NEW KING OF CARS Road and Track has the new M3 full test, and it's faster and more nimble than the IS-F.ailure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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