Some depressing numbers

[one69chev]

if SOA really wanted to sell more, they would put some more out there. my trips to subie lots reflect a disproportionate number of wrx's and forrestors to leggies. some lots have none, and we all know you can't sell what you don't have....

 

it's almost as if they're content being a small fish in a big pond.....when they could be so much bigger.....

[edkwon]

if SOA really wanted to sell more, they would put some more out there. my trips to subie lots reflect a disproportionate number of wrx's and forrestors to leggies. some lots have none, and we all know you can't sell what you don't have....

 

it's almost as if they're content being a small fish in a big pond.....when they could be so much bigger.....

 

Does anyone here actually work for SOA or know how they make their decisions on the corporate level. I get this feeling that SOA isnt really all that autonomous and can only do so much on their own without the blessing of the parent company. Bottom line, i think we the american subaru crowd gives them too much crap for not giving us what we want and being aggressive with pushing the higher level model lineup in the US. Maybe SOJ wont let them... maybe because they have much better established markets in europe, australia and asia in general, they allow those divisions to have the choice car, while they're being much more cautious in the american market because the label still doesnt have the cache that european or other major japanese brands do.

 

chicken or the egg, you decide.

 

also i dare anyone here in the forums who likes to talk big to play an SOA exec and do all those things you want to see SOA do, without being afraid of doing it at the cost of your exec job.

[one69chev]

it's just an interesting sales strategy, which i apparently will never understand......

[a.spider]

"I get this feeling that SOA isnt really all that autonomous and can only

do so much on their own without the blessing of the parent company."

 

In 1990 FHI (the parent company) bought the remaining 50%+ of SOA that

they didn't own. By the way if you think Subaru marketing is bad today just

check out *why* FHI was so easily able to buy out that remainder of SOA.

 

(NOTE: See "Where the Suckers Moon" for lots of details).

[ScoopMan]

"Very few boomers.. The fact of the matter is that the boomer generation generally lacks the technical aptitude to research a car purchase in depth on the internet. Therefore, they choose the "safe bet" like the Camry or Accord. At the end of the day, boomer research is limited to advertisement laden magazines or word of mouth from other old people."

 

I would admit that when I went to the Palisades meet in NJ back in April I was probably the oldest guy there, and most seemed to be in their 20's.

 

I won't admit that boomers don't know how to use the internet. Just about anyone who works uses the internet routinely. It is more likely than not that a boomer signs your weekly paycheck, so perhaps they might know something by the simple fact that they have been around longer and have more experience than you do. Perhaps you think newborns can solve differential equations then?

[pdw]

Very few boomers.. The fact of the matter is that the boomer generation generally lacks the technical aptitude to research a car purchase in depth on the internet. Therefore, they choose the "safe bet" like the Camry or Accord. At the end of the day, boomer research is limited to advertisement laden magazines or word of mouth from other old people.

 

Really? You've done surveys on this? That's pretty interesting that all old people are stupid and all young people are so smart.

 

If young people are so smart, how are they doing their research? Word of mouth on the internet?

[rao]

Really? You've done surveys on this? That's pretty interesting that all old people are stupid and all young people are so smart.

 

Everybody knows that

[SLegacy99]

My dad went from Aurora to A6, and considered CLKs, Avalons, and ES300s in between. The fact that Subaru didnt have a larger car (and still doesnt) didnt attract his business.

[iyalla]

also i dare anyone here in the forums who likes to talk big to play an SOA exec and do all those things you want to see SOA do, without being afraid of doing it at the cost of your exec job.

 

I bet there were a lot of people in Detroit who thought that the directions they were taking with vehicles were crazy. Problem is when the Big Cheese walked into the conference room and said "Hey I've got a great idea, lets build another SUV!", everybody just smiled and said "Thats a great idea boss". I certainly wouldn't have been the one to raise my hand and say "Are you f****ng nuts moron?"

 

SOA can't do anything, its quite obvious, but this is a forum and we enjoy letting off steam in the forum. Its fun and we get a good laugh out of it sometimes. I mean honestly you got to be able to rag on a company that features talking animals in their latest Outback commercials.

If anything I think you are the one taking these ramblings of ours all a little to seriously

[pdw]

I bet there were a lot of people in Detroit who thought that the directions they were taking with vehicles were crazy. Problem is when the Big Cheese walked into the conference room and said "Hey I've got a great idea, lets build another SUV!", everybody just smiled and said "Thats a great idea boss". I certainly wouldn't have been the one to raise my hand and say "Are you f****ng nuts moron?"

 

SOA can't do anything, its quite obvious, but this is a forum and we enjoy letting off steam in the forum. Its fun and we get a good laugh out of it sometimes. I mean honestly you got to be able to rag on a company that features talking animals in their latest Outback commercials.

If anything I think you are the one taking these ramblings of ours all a little to seriously

 

SOA has to make a profit. If they take a loss too many years in a row, we won't have Subarus in the US anymore. Unfortunately, the LGT wagon (since that's a commonly bemoaned model) didn't contribute to making a profit so they got rid of it.

 

The question that needs to be asked though is why didn't the LGT wagon sell? Certainly a total lack of marketing didn't help but sport wagons aren't doing well industry wide either.

 

In any event, I'm sure being a Subaru exec isn't an easy job but I don't see that there doing a good job at it either. Subaru strikes me as a company with limited means who are treading water as best they can in a market that favors companies with much bigger resources.

 

I really hope the Toyota relationship helps them without erasing their identity.

[iyalla]

^I agree they have a serious problem with the acceptance of AWD in the market place and the emergence of the small ute, other manufacturers have cut into Subaru's niche which wasn't very big to begin with.

[ScoopMan]

I guess the reality is that car manufacturers use their ad budget to target the biggest group that they can for their bread and butter models. The halo cars (if a company has one) don't really need to get advertised much because the car guys already know all about them. I am not sure, but I really don't remember seeing any TV ads for Ford GT40 or Cobra, Honda S2000, Chevy Corvette, etc. Those cars will sell anyway, in smaller volume of course, to the afficianados.

Much as I hate to say it, maybe our beloved LGT does not really come across as a halo car for SOA. It's a sleeper, which is why I like it actually. That might also be the reason it does not sell better.

I guess the STI is the halo car.

Makes me wonder what might happen if SOA really made STI more like BMW M or Audi S and RS. Seems to work pretty well for THEM!

Do an STI Legacy for us, baby!

[edkwon]

 

SOA can't do anything, its quite obvious, but this is a forum and we enjoy letting off steam in the forum. Its fun and we get a good laugh out of it sometimes. I mean honestly you got to be able to rag on a company that features talking animals in their latest Outback commercials.

If anything I think you are the one taking these ramblings of ours all a little to seriously

 

You're probably aware of the big picture, but i think a lot of ppl complaining about the way SOA is running things do not see it. SOA is running things far from perfect but when i complain about the way ppl make decisions or run things, i usually don't know everything that's going on and when i found out more information, i feel stupider for having complained without knowing all the facts first.

[pdw]

You're probably aware of the big picture, but i think a lot of ppl complaining about the way SOA is running things do not see it. SOA is running things far from perfect but when i complain about the way ppl make decisions or run things, i usually don't know everything that's going on and when i found out more information, i feel stupider for having complained without knowing all the facts first.

 

BAH! BULLSH!T.

 

You're the consumer and the customer. Complain all you want if Subaru isn't building what you want.

[edkwon]

BAH! BULLSH!T.

 

You're the consumer and the customer. Complain all you want if Subaru isn't building what you want.

 

sorry, even tho that is the normal attitude for american consumer culture, that's just not my attitude if i don't like a product, i return it or don't buy it again.

 

if i don't get something the way i want, i don't complain about someone not making something the way i want, i find someone who does provide it the way i want.

 

in the end, i've expended the same amt of energy and end up with the thing i wanted instead of being pissed and empty-handed.

 

ppl don't have to think my way, i'm just explaining why i do.

[pdw]

sorry, even tho that is the normal attitude for american consumer culture, that's just not my attitude if i don't like a product, i return it or don't buy it again.

 

if i don't get something the way i want, i don't complain about someone not making something the way i want, i find someone who does provide it the way i want.

 

in the end, i've expended the same amt of energy and end up with the thing i wanted instead of being pissed and empty-handed.

 

ppl don't have to think my way, i'm just explaining why i do.

 

My point is, manufacturers do listen if enough people complain. It's actually good that they hear it or they won't build better products.

[theimmortal]

... I just thought that I'd bring up another one. Speaking of "halo" cars and marketing and consumer perception of an automotive brand.

 

OK, so here's the deal; Subaru is a niche player (yes) and they kind of have a "halo" car in the WRX STi (kind of - at least in the minds of some) BUT there is really not much awareness in the minds of the general buying public (VERY TRUE).

 

The reason I say this is in general discussion with:

 

1. Wife (VW Jetta driver)

2. Father (Acura 3.5RL driver)

3. Friend (who owns a Saab 9-2 Aero)

4. Other friends who own; Benz e500 and Audi A4

 

Of the above small sample only the friend with the 9-2 Aero had any real clue on what Subaru truly is. He understood that they build great cars with super safety and performance but at a premium price (especially in Canada - price that is). The reason he bought a Saab (version) is that it had more unique styling while retaining the Subaru reliabiity and AWD performance.

 

Of the others the opinions on the vehicles built by Subaru varied but the "plain Jane" theme was pretty consistent and none had any idea on the performance capabilitys of the vehicles. When informed that a Legacy sedan could do 0-60 in 5.1 and the quarter mile in 14.1 the Benz and Audi drivers were surprised to say the least. Needless to say, the term bullet proof reliability and Audi simply do not go together.

 

So while the chassis is supremely capable in all cases with the Subaru lineup I believe that they need to focus on a few areas in order to make a larger impact;

 

1. Make the vehicles more striking in appearance. This isn't to say make them loud and obnoxious like say a Trans Am with the flaming chicken on the hood or Camaro in the 1980s (sorry for any drivers of said cars) but make them attractive and maybe a little controversial (Tribeca was a little controversial but the "piggy" snout just didn't cut it). Retain basic elements of style that are charictaristically Subaru but (headlights on Legacy and current logo are good) but perhaps make some new elements that will further seperate Subaru from the vanilla pack (Accord/Camry=vanilla - but do not keep the "piggy" snout; people don't like it). I think of vehicles such as the Lexus IS250/350 series as being nicely styled (maybe a little help from Toyota?) and in line with the overall Lexus image/brand. Even the BMW family of vehicles are a good example of consistent design accross the board (I'm not saying to copy but simply to develop one's own design theme).

 

2. Improve brand awareness. By saying this I mean that the brand needs to be enhanced in the minds of the general buying public. Perhaps having some general wide open test drive days open to the general public, along with some bad ass advertising and marketing would help jump start things. The currrent brand is rather subdued and virtually non-existent, kind of like no-name ice cream that comes in a yellow tub but is made of the best damn ingredients that you could find. If it looks plain and insubstantial then it just may be (in the minds of the general public). If, on the other hand, you have tried the ice cream (aka Legacy GT Limited or any other model) then you will understand that it may very well be the best damn ice cream you can buy for the money!

 

So before I bore everyone by typing 10 pages or more of text on the issues that plague Subaru I will cut myself off and say that we need to get people to understand that Subarus aren't just some plain Jane type of vehicle (Camry/Accord...) but that they are substantial, practical, fun to drive and just all around GREAT cars!!.

[pdw]

... I just thought that I'd bring up another one. Speaking of "halo" cars and marketing and consumer perception of an automotive brand.

 

OK, so here's the deal; Subaru is a niche player (yes) and they kind of have a "halo" car in the WRX STi (kind of - at least in the minds of some) BUT there is really not much awareness in the minds of the general buying public (VERY TRUE).

 

The reason I say this is in general discussion with:

 

1. Wife (VW Jetta driver)

2. Father (Acura 3.5RL driver)

3. Friend (who owns a Saab 9-2 Aero)

4. Other friends who own; Benz e500 and Audi A4

 

Of the above small sample only the friend with the 9-2 Aero had any real clue on what Subaru truly is. He understood that they build great cars with super safety and performance but at a premium price (especially in Canada - price that is). The reason he bought a Saab (version) is that it had more unique styling while retaining the Subaru reliabiity and AWD performance.

 

Of the others the opinions on the vehicles built by Subaru varied but the "plain Jane" theme was pretty consistent and none had any idea on the performance capabilitys of the vehicles. When informed that a Legacy sedan could do 0-60 in 5.1 and the quarter mile in 14.1 the Benz and Audi drivers were surprised to say the least. Needless to say, the term bullet proof reliability and Audi simply do not go together.

 

So while the chassis is supremely capable in all cases with the Subaru lineup I believe that they need to focus on a few areas in order to make a larger impact;

 

1. Make the vehicles more striking in appearance. This isn't to say make them loud and obnoxious like say a Trans Am with the flaming chicken on the hood or Camaro in the 1980s (sorry for any drivers of said cars) but make them attractive and maybe a little controversial (Tribeca was a little controversial but the "piggy" snout just didn't cut it). Retain basic elements of style that are charictaristically Subaru but (headlights on Legacy and current logo are good) but perhaps make some new elements that will further seperate Subaru from the vanilla pack (Accord/Camry=vanilla - but do not keep the "piggy" snout; people don't like it). I think of vehicles such as the Lexus IS250/350 series as being nicely styled (maybe a little help from Toyota?) and in line with the overall Lexus image/brand. Even the BMW family of vehicles are a good example of consistent design accross the board (I'm not saying to copy but simply to develop one's own design theme).

 

2. Improve brand awareness. By saying this I mean that the brand needs to be enhanced in the minds of the general buying public. Perhaps having some general wide open test drive days open to the general public, along with some bad ass advertising and marketing would help jump start things. The currrent brand is rather subdued and virtually non-existent, kind of like no-name ice cream that comes in a yellow tub but is made of the best damn ingredients that you could find. If it looks plain and insubstantial then it just may be (in the minds of the general public). If, on the other hand, you have tried the ice cream (aka Legacy GT Limited or any other model) then you will understand that it may very well be the best damn ice cream you can buy for the money!

 

So before I bore everyone by typing 10 pages or more of text on the issues that plague Subaru I will cut myself off and say that we need to get people to understand that Subarus aren't just some plain Jane type of vehicle (Camry/Accord...) but that they are substantial, practical, fun to drive and just all around GREAT cars!!.

 

I wish Subaru would also make them less chintzy feeling. Subarus feel cheap.

[SLegacy99]

1. Make the vehicles more striking in appearance.

 

My sister wanted the WRX when she bought her first car in 2003, but ending up only have the budget for a Corolla S. She came home last night and used my computer which has a 2007 Impreza STi background. She's 27 btw and she commented on how much nicer it looks. She said she would look to drive one of those, 5 speed of course, but with her plans to have kids soon and rising fuel prices she decided that it wouldnt be practical.

So I thought it was amusing that she still possesed a fervor for this car and even her husband, who is in love with A4s, thought it was a pretty good looking car. I think it is. Every time I see a newer Legacy I wonder if I will end up with one of those instead of a WRX.

[edkwon]

I wish Subaru would also make them less chintzy feeling. Subarus feel cheap.

 

I bet any significant changes in interior materials and feel will be accompanied by a similar increase in price, and if that happens, while it makes a number of ppl happy, im sure an equal number of subaru fans would complain about the price increases saying their 'bargain' pocket rockets have gotten too pricy.

 

An example is all the flack the Spec B's have gotten for being priced the way they are, even tho they have more interior amenities than legacies preceeding, but, ppl still seem to focus on what the car doesn't have, rather than what's been included.

 

My experience over the last 7 years has been subaru ppl have grown increasingly fickle and difficult to please.

[SLegacy99]

I've never thought either one of my Legacies to be chincy. I know the wood is just painted plastic, but everything in the car is very durable. No popping materials or even rattles, which I guess is a different story from newer owners.

 

Now my bro's Impreza was chincy. The center console wiggled and the plastic pieces had broken tabs and thus became loose. Not cool. But that was an '01, first gen. Hopefully theyve made some improvements since then.

[theimmortal]

An example is all the flack the Spec B's have gotten for being priced the way they are, even tho they have more interior amenities than legacies preceeding, but, ppl still seem to focus on what the car doesn't have, rather than what's been included.

 

My experience over the last 7 years has been subaru ppl have grown increasingly fickle and difficult to please.

 

I think that we need to Separate ourselves from our vehicles emotionally and objectively think of what the issues really are. Have Subaru people become “increasingly fickle and difficult to please” or is the level of quality in the market generally more and more competitive, with significant increases in quality being experienced every year as new models are launched?

 

People will judge a car based on its peers, and a car such as a Spec B must be judged against cars such as the Lexus i250 and Infiniti G35; difficult peers to compete against. Fit and finish in these vehicles is getting close to the “ultimate” interior; the Audi!! I will definitely say that Audis have nice interiors but that’s not my number 1 concern. I would prefer more reliability, functionality, performance and a decent price. Subarus fit the bill all round (except they could use a little more headroom) and I’m looking to get into a Legacy GT soon.

 

People will focus on what these cars don’t have simply because the competition does have “it”. Whether it’s Bluetooth (should have), a nicer interior (it’s pretty nice already) or a cappuccino machine in the dashboard (yeah, OK), they will complain. It’s up to the company to decide what will improve the current model and react accordingly with appropriate changes. As each year goes by and new models are introduced, the level of quality and amenities expected will increase according to what else is in the market; that’s just the way things go.

 

Sure we (the customer) may be getting fickle and difficult to please, but it’s to be expected because there’s a whole world of cars out there that we look at. If you see something out there on another model that you really like, you’re going to think; “why can’t I have THAT on my Legacy (or other)?! It’s just the way things are.

[edkwon]

 

Sure we (the customer) may be getting fickle and difficult to please, but it’s to be expected because there’s a whole world of cars out there that we look at. If you see something out there on another model that you really like, you’re going to think; “why can’t I have THAT on my Legacy (or other)?! It’s just the way things are.

 

maybe most customers, not me, i just dont get hung up on stuff like that anymore because i realize that ppl will always be for wanting, esp in our current culture of 'i want it and i want it now!' give someone one thing, and instead of getting thanked, get the reply 'ok, but wheres items two and three?'

[NSFW]

Well, don't forget the Birkenstock 'Alternative Lifestyle' (ahem...) tree-hugging latte sippers from Vermont.

 

 

You misspelled "Seattle."

[theimmortal]

Your argument is flawed, at least in respect to options offered, asmuch of what we want has already been engineered and is available in other markets.

 

Remember, the 05 LGT, was avail in Japan in the same body style in 03. From that year, alot of the options people wanted were avail.

 

Bluetooth, HID, Better stereo, keyless go, etc. etc. are all easily obtainable in other markets, and therefore the LGT commands a higher price, and is considered comparable to more high end cars.

 

No flaw in the argument, just differing points:). Why do other comparably priced vehicles actually have the features mentioned at an equivalent price? There are lower cost vehicles that have these options as well. Honestly, I'm only really concerned with vehicles available in MY market; I'm not concerned with others' markets offerings (since it would be painfully expensive to attempt to bring in a one-off car from somewhere else; and who wants a right hand drive?).

 

As far as being comparable to higher end vehicles it boils down to fit and finish primarily where cost cutting is experienced but don't think that that is where it ends. This feature delete (if I may call it that) is a simple tool to reduce the costs of a vehicle but a tool which costs in terms of consumer perception. People begin to expect more and therefore will consider that a vehicle is lacking if they don't see a feature or set of features where the market dictates that the feature should be there.

 

Ultimately I'm not saying that Subarus are bad vehicles but simply stating that Subaru North America (Canada & USA) needs to ante up and bring out their vehicles with a full complement of features that are expected in the market in order to maintain a competitive position. If they continue to fall behind in this respect they may fall victim to new models that provide everything that theirs do with the addition of features that they do not offer. I for one would seriously consider a vehicle such as the new (2008+) Honda Accord if they had 260+ HP and AWD with either 50/50 or slight rear bias. I don't really see that happening, but if it did I would seriously consider it (or a similar offering from elsewhere).