Some depressing numbers

[meliaant]

Maybe Subaru should advertise the Legacy GT for what it is as opposed to having a lame commercial featuring a whitebread couple looking at a car followed by a Sheryl Crow song...

 

I couldn't agree more...everyone I know with a 2.5i or 2.5GT are between the ages of 24-32, educated professionals...stop marketing to my baby-boomer parents, and market to the thrill-seeking, financially sound generation!

[SLegacy99]

I couldn't agree more...everyone I know with a 2.5i or 2.5GT are between the ages of 24-32, educated professionals...stop marketing to my baby-boomer parents, and market to the thrill-seeking, financially sound generation!

 

This is true. They should be targeting a younger generation. Their ads are so tame, I dont think even Ford would use that style to advertise their 500 sedan...oh, I mean the Taurus

[ScoopMan]

I couldn't agree more...everyone I know with a 2.5i or 2.5GT are between the ages of 24-32, educated professionals...stop marketing to my baby-boomer parents, and market to the thrill-seeking, financially sound generation!

I would be careful there, my young friend!

There are a few 'boomers' around that have the reason and experience to look past the marketing, and do the careful research to find the products that deliver the best performance for the buck!

I wanted performance, I wanted subtlety, I wanted to be able to transport my family or clients in a decent manner. I wanted a reliable station wagon!

In other words, I wanted a car that was NOT what some saggy pants PUNK would want!

The LGT fitted the bill perfectly.

I think a better measure than age might be what kind of education or background you have. The great performance value of the LGT is lost on people without a technical background, IMO. The trick is to translate this 'cult' into 'cachet' that will attract other less technically knowledgeable buyers. So far SOA has failed.

As a history lesson, once upon a time 911's and BMW's were driven mostly by enthusiasts, not so much by status seeking lawyers and the like as now.

Who knows, maybe if Subaru became known as the car that engineers and other technical and performance oriented people prefer to drive, other people might deduce that the Legacy MUST be a pretty great car.

[Draug]

Here is an article from the Globe and Mail. It specifically highlights Subaru's plan in Canada, and touches on the US side of things.

 

http://www.globeauto.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070614.wh-subaru-0614/GAStory/specialGlobeAuto/?pageRequested=1

 

Personally, I think Subaru has messed in its marketing in the past 10 years. They are every bit as safe as a Volvo, but Volvo gets all the credit. Nobody mentions Subaru as one of the safest car on the road. Same thing regarding reliability. That doesnt even take into account the performance you can get from their vehicles designed for that - you cant beat a WRX performance for the price.

 

I just hope that Subaru doesnt try to increase thier bottom line by making things cheaper, and therefor worse. I hope they try to show the mass public that they are everybit as good as many of the vehicles that cost way more. They need to aim for the astute buyer that wants high end for a reasonable cost - Aim for the buyer that is willing to spend money for the right product.

[SLegacy99]

I was just thinking today about the Volvo commerical where the Monster truck drove over the cars (which had been sawed at the B pillars to ensure they would collapse, but not the Volvo of course) and the Volvo held up to the weight. Subaru needs something like that.

[dmg]

May sales:

 

Camry: 50,126 (now including some from the Subaru plant?)

 

Legacy (includes Outback): 7,159

 

Subaru total: 16,262

 

Could be worse...

 

Mazda6: 4,509

 

Saturn Aura: 4,784

 

Wasn't the Mazda6 the favorite in all the magazines for about six months when it first came out? And the Saturn gets all the buzz lately.

 

Seems the magazine reviews aren't worth much.

 

Subaru still does pretty well for being a niche player. They have a solid following in the mountain and colder climates and even peformance lovers elsewhere. With the new Tribeca (yes, SUV's are still selling) and updates, I think it should pick up a little.

 

People are also waiting for the new Impreza, which is the biggest market for Subaru.

 

The economy and gas prices are the biggest hit. Esp. with the now standard '08 EPA ratings not helping.

 

It's no doubt Toyota and Honda sell millions a year. Subaru has gained 4% last year, and I'm sure they will hopefully continue to prove. They make incredibly fun and safe cars.

[meliaant]

Here is an article from the Globe and Mail. It specifically highlights Subaru's plan in Canada, and touches on the US side of things.

 

http://www.globeauto.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070614.wh-subaru-0614/GAStory/specialGlobeAuto/?pageRequested=1

 

Personally, I think Subaru has messed in its marketing in the past 10 years. They are every bit as safe as a Volvo, but Volvo gets all the credit. Nobody mentions Subaru as one of the safest car on the road. Same thing regarding reliability. That doesnt even take into account the performance you can get from their vehicles designed for that - you cant beat a WRX performance for the price.

 

I just hope that Subaru doesnt try to increase thier bottom line by making things cheaper, and therefor worse. I hope they try to show the mass public that they are everybit as good as many of the vehicles that cost way more. They need to aim for the astute buyer that wants high end for a reasonable cost - Aim for the buyer that is willing to spend money for the right product.

 

You obviously haven't driven your '07 long enough to hear the rattles and squeaks that disprove your theory that Subaru's are "everybit as good as many of the vehicles that cost way more"...When you buy a Subaru for $25K, you get what you pay for...there is no way that the overall quality of a Subaru rivals that of an A4 or 3-Series...yes, performance may be up to par, but I ask you to compare the interior of your Subaru to the same model year Accords or Camry - the quality in those automobiles absolutely puts our Subaru's to shame...

[edkwon]

id like to point out that, as mentioned previously ppl like their subarus because of their unique prsnality and qualities, yet they wish their cars sold more or were more popular, im not sure why, maybe because they want all those special ed high performance models avail overseas only, or maybe theyre so insecure in their purchases they need affirmation their cars are good only if theyre popular.

 

however when sales become more successful, as in the impreza, then the company starts to retailor their cars to appeal to a wider audience, and then make the car more bland and generic, alienating the enthusiasts who wanted them to be more popular in the first place. this almost always happens when a brand becomes too popular, it starts to dilute out its personality and edge.

 

unless you guys own shares in subaru or work for the company, i think the last thing youd want is for the brand to ve too popular. im alread planning to get a different brand as my next car because i feel ive had agood run with subarus, but ive moved on to a different point in my life and theres a whole world of great cars out there to try.

[ScoopMan]

Hey Ed,

SOA killed the MT LGT wagon and non-LTD LGT's after 2005, and will kill ALL Legacy wagons after this year because they were NOT popular ENOUGH!

I have yet to see a Spec B TV ad, much less ANY Legacy TV ad, or almost ANY Subaru TV ad for that matter.

Maybe if Subaru starts doing better in the WRC they could use THAT to market cars to a broader public.

They should talk to the ICY/Phoenix team that just beat the pants off Bimmers and Acuras at Lime Rock a few weeks ago in the ST class, in a Spec B. Those cars are not far from stock, and they pretty well proved what they could do. A FAMILY CAR that wins races! Now THAT would be good advertising!

I think there is a perception that Subaru is the new Volvo, in terms of the kinds of buyers that would buy a Subie. Basically Blue State lefties.... May be true to some degree, but I think a lot of people on this forum probably don't fit that description, and I think a lot of people might purposely AVOID a car that is associated with a specific political viewpoint. Birkenstock lesbians anyone?

Obviously people on this forum are smarter than that, but what about the rest?

[pdw]

 

Seems the magazine reviews aren't worth much.

 

What do magazine reviews have to do with sales?

[edkwon]

At this point, the LGT is neither too bland, nor too spicy. Thats a problem for new sales, and people who are thinking about buying elsewhere like yourself.

 

Other car companies offer in-house upgrades for those who want to move upmarket. SOA does not. I'll bet if SOA offered a more comprehensively equipped car, with styling you were excited about, and had great power like a TT H6, you might consider staying.

 

you make some very good points, but i want to explain im not jumping off the subaru ship because i feel like its sinking, im on my thid subaru over the last decade which is pretty good, but because ive owned them for so long, i like cars in general, im not blindy brand loyal. subaru can offer a thousand hp quad turbo ultra reliable beautiful car for a good affordable price and guess what, i stll want to try and enjoy other cars.

 

even if say, korean food is my favorite kind, do i want to eat it every single day for the rest of my life? no i like to try all sorts of stuff and enjoy differences and variety. so i guess what im trying to say is that i regard cars the same way, and i feel its wrong that if someone enjoys one brand for a while that they should be made to feel like their abandoning just because they say they want to switch to a different brand, cars should not be equated to spouse, children or family. as much as we express love for cars, they are still just hunks of metal and while we all enjoy subarus, some may choose to stick wit them as long as they live thru good and bad, while others should have the freedom to move on if they choose and not be bothered or treated like a traitorous blasphemer just because he says 'im probably getting a bmw' next or something.

 

anyways im just offering a counterpoint and saying ppl shouldnt get too worked up or upset over these things, look at the big picture, theyre just cars, enjoy what have now to the fullest, life goed on, and dont get depressed about the future. for most of us, there are a lot more important things in life to be concerned about.

[pdw]

I think there is a perception that Subaru is the new Volvo, in terms of the kinds of buyers that would buy a Subie. Basically Blue State lefties.... May be true to some degree, but I think a lot of people on this forum probably don't fit that description, and I think a lot of people might purposely AVOID a car that is associated with a specific political viewpoint. Birkenstock lesbians anyone?

Obviously people on this forum are smarter than that, but what about the rest?

 

Wow.

 

So are you saying the red states are inhabited by sheep who can't think for themselves?

[pdw]

You obviously haven't driven your '07 long enough to hear the rattles and squeaks that disprove your theory that Subaru's are "everybit as good as many of the vehicles that cost way more"...When you buy a Subaru for $25K, you get what you pay for...there is no way that the overall quality of a Subaru rivals that of an A4 or 3-Series...yes, performance may be up to par, but I ask you to compare the interior of your Subaru to the same model year Accords or Camry - the quality in those automobiles absolutely puts our Subaru's to shame...

 

Yeah. Subarus may well be reliable but that's not the same as fit and finish and material quality. Subaru is lacking in those areas.

[pdw]

...

 

Sure it may be nice to drive a niche car (I drive a Saab, I know) but low sales numbers are bad for a car company. Low volume equals less on research and development and longer cycle times on redesign, and less aftermarket suppliers, and less performance parts, and higher costs for the stuff you do find.

 

Just because a car is popular doesn't make it bad. If Subaru's were more popular then most people would buy lower powered versions in bigger volumes allowing for further development of the higher powered, sportier, premium models, and even allowing for more models.

 

Take Audi as an example. They were relatively niche when the Audi 5000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8_%28road_car%29 (100 in Europe) hit the North American market and remained so for some time (see link for more info). They made a concerted effort to move upmarket (I'm not recommending that) and look at their lineup now. I know they are nowhere near as reliable (or so I hear) but they have a hell of a lineup with everything from smaller nice performing hatchbacks to full out high performance cars bordering on supercar status - AKA R8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8_%28road_car%29).

 

I for one wouldn't mind seeing Subaru expand and diversify along with being more successful with their numbers while sticking to their core values (AWD and reliability and relative affordability with super quality and good looks, etc.....).

 

I agree with what your saying here overall. However, Audi was brought upmarket by their parent company, VW. VW is way bigger than Subaru and, at this point, Audi is to VW as Lexus is to Toyota (disregard that Audis are as reliable as meth heads).

 

Of course, why VW chose to try to bring the VW brand upmarket a few years ago, thereby competing with Audi, is beyond me.

[edkwon]

im not offering my views with the intent to piss ppl off, im just giving a opposite stance big picture view of the situation. the ppl who do get angry at what i say might a just a little too emotionally involved with their car devotion. im sorry but for example, thinking about ppl starving and suffering in the messed up natons of west africa upsets me a bit more than what colors and transmission choices my legacy will have next model year.

[pdw]

Saturn Aura is a really nice car...

 

Too bad is wrong wheel drive, otherwise a very nice, great interior finish (waaaay better than our Legacy), and a rebadged Opel Vectra....

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

 

I had one as a rental recently. In many ways it was quite nice. The interior looked good but the material quality wasn't the greatest in some parts. The cloth upholstery was pretty nice though and close to what I had in my A4.

 

GM does seem to be getting their act together.

[ScoopMan]

Wow.

 

So are you saying the red states are inhabited by sheep who can't think for themselves?

I KNOW I did not say that.

I DO believe that there are a hell of a lot of dumbasses in our great country who are either too stupid or lazy to seek true answers to important questions. Both Red AND Blue states!

But PLEASE don't get me started on politics!

[ScoopMan]

im not offering my views with the intent to piss ppl off, im just giving a opposite stance big picture view of the situation. the ppl who do get angry at what i say might a just a little too emotionally involved with their car devotion. im sorry but for example, thinking about ppl starving and suffering in the messed up natons of west africa upsets me a bit more than what colors and transmission choices my legacy will have next model year.

Don't worry Ed, I for one am not PO'd at all! You seem like a pretty thoughtful guy actually, and I completely agree with you on matters of free choice, variety, and the importance of keeping major world issues in perspective.

 

That said, this IS a Legacy forum, so what do you expect?

[edkwon]

I think there is a perception that Subaru is the new Volvo, in terms of the kinds of buyers that would buy a Subie. Basically Blue State lefties.... May be true to some degree, but I think a lot of people on this forum probably don't fit that description, and I think a lot of people might purposely AVOID a car that is associated with a specific political viewpoint. Birkenstock lesbians anyone?

Obviously people on this forum are smarter than that, but what about the rest?

 

That's the thing, i don't even care about those perceived stereotypes or supposed political statements attached to the cars i buy.

 

Sure I make jokes about bimmer 3 series owners as being some of the biggest douchebags on the planet, but ultimately would that stop me from buying one if i wanted to own one? no.

 

It's just cars folks, and if ppl form serious opinions about me based on the car i drive and it doesnt affect my job or my family/loved ones, then i could care less.

 

Seriously.life.prioritize.big picture.

 

I mean, ppl can get upset and angry about subaru's downward fortunes, that's fine, thats there choice, but getting angry is bad for the health, raises blood pressure, increases risk of heart attack, stroke, etc. and frankly, theres plenty of real world problems we all have in our lives that already piss us off and is beyond our control, so why add to my personal aggravation when it comes to something like cars?

[ScoopMan]

That's the thing, i don't even care about those perceived stereotypes or supposed political statements attached to the cars i buy.

 

Sure I make jokes about bimmer 3 series owners as being some of the biggest douchebags on the planet, but ultimately would that stop me from buying one if i wanted to own one? no.

 

It's just cars folks, and if ppl form serious opinions about me based on the car i drive and it doesnt affect my job or my family/loved ones, then i could care less.

 

Seriously.life.prioritize.big picture.

 

I mean, ppl can get upset and angry about subaru's downward fortunes, that's fine, thats there choice, but getting angry is bad for the health, raises blood pressure, increases risk of heart attack, stroke, etc. and frankly, theres plenty of real world problems we all have in our lives that already piss us off and is beyond our control, so why add to my personal aggravation when it comes to something like cars?

Well, politics was never a factor for me in choosing the Subie LGT. For me it was performance, awd, subtle styling, reputation, and the size and usefulness of a wagon. It is my first Subie and my favorite car of many I have owned, because it does everything that I want it to do so well.

I don't think people here are angry, so much as possibly annoyed with SOA.

There are so many things to be disappointed about in this world, that I will gladly take some pleasure in enjoying a well engineered car.

Excellence is inspiring, and it can come in many forms.

[Draug]

You obviously haven't driven your '07 long enough to hear the rattles and squeaks that disprove your theory that Subaru's are "everybit as good as many of the vehicles that cost way more"...When you buy a Subaru for $25K, you get what you pay for...there is no way that the overall quality of a Subaru rivals that of an A4 or 3-Series...yes, performance may be up to par, but I ask you to compare the interior of your Subaru to the same model year Accords or Camry - the quality in those automobiles absolutely puts our Subaru's to shame...

 

Actually, I havent even picked mine up from the dealer yet. I am making the trip to Jacksonville next week. However, I did go look at them at a local dealership.

 

When I made that statement, maybe 'way more' was too much of an assertion. I am coming from a Grand Am GT, which was $24K new, and I know the Subaru will have far greater quality.

 

I priced out an Audi A4 Savant. The total price was $39K when optioned similar to the GT Ltd Wagon which was $30.5K. The Audi is over 20% more, which is pretty significant for a vehicle that performs the same, is more expensive to fix, and rumors of the Direct Injection system diluting the oil with gasoline. 20% for a slightly better interior. Let us not forget that the Legacy GT is one of the highest rated in terms of safety also.

 

Accords and Camrys dont even come into my equation because they dont have a wagon. They dont perform as good, and dont have AWD. When optioned similarly, they cost more too. Way to big of sacrifice to trade for a 'better' interior.

 

To top all of that off, to buy a Legacy GT Wagon here in Canada will cost me around $48K, whereas buying in the US will cost me about $36K Cdn including every conceivable cost. The A4 is $56K Cdn, the both the Accord and Camry are around $40K Cdn.

 

Like I said, "way more" may have been too strong of an assertion. But, dollar for dollar, the Legacy GT Wagon is the right decision over any of the vehicles I found within 20% of the Legacy GT.

[TPLGT]

Hmm, must be why I like driving it. I RARELY see another LGT.

 

Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner!

 

I have had an LGHT since 4/06...have seen 3 in my town...woot!

 

I like being different....that's how it is in FL. I know In the cold states Subarus are a staple.

[TPLGT]

Actually, I havent even picked mine up from the dealer yet. I am making the trip to Jacksonville next week. However, I did go look at them at a local dealership.

 

When I made that statement, maybe 'way more' was too much of an assertion. I am coming from a Grand Am GT, which was $24K new, and I know the Subaru will have far greater quality.

 

I priced out an Audi A4 Savant. The total price was $39K when optioned similar to the GT Ltd Wagon which was $30.5K. The Audi is over 20% more, which is pretty significant for a vehicle that performs the same, is more expensive to fix, and rumors of the Direct Injection system diluting the oil with gasoline. 20% for a slightly better interior. Let us not forget that the Legacy GT is one of the highest rated in terms of safety also.

 

Accords and Camrys dont even come into my equation because they dont have a wagon. They dont perform as good, and dont have AWD. When optioned similarly, they cost more too. Way to big of sacrifice to trade for a 'better' interior.

 

To top all of that off, to buy a Legacy GT Wagon here in Canada will cost me around $48K, whereas buying in the US will cost me about $36K Cdn including every conceivable cost. The A4 is $56K Cdn, the both the Accord and Camry are around $40K Cdn.

 

Like I said, "way more" may have been too strong of an assertion. But, dollar for dollar, the Legacy GT Wagon is the right decision over any of the vehicles I found within 20% of the Legacy GT.

 

 

Why are you buying the car here in Jax? Very far from Calgary...PM me should you want to hook up while in town....or atleast get the lay of the land on a few places to eat...

 

TP

[Obsessotron]

 

however when sales become more successful, as in the impreza, then the company starts to retailor their cars to appeal to a wider audience, and then make the car more bland and generic, alienating the enthusiasts who wanted them to be more popular in the first place. this almost always happens when a brand becomes too popular, it starts to dilute out its personality and edge.

 

Isn't this the truth! I want people to say "hey thats a pretty flippin sweet car" when they see me drive by, so in that sense I want it to be more popular. On the other hand, I don't know if I would want those same people to have the same car as me. So its almost a catch 22 I guess

 

I would be careful there, my young friend!

There are a few 'boomers' around that have the reason and experience to look past the marketing, and do the careful research to find the products that deliver the best performance for the buck!

 

Very few boomers.. The fact of the matter is that the boomer generation generally lacks the technical aptitude to research a car purchase in depth on the internet. Therefore, they choose the "safe bet" like the Camry or Accord. At the end of the day, boomer research is limited to advertisement laden magazines or word of mouth from other old people.

[Draug]

Why are you buying the car here in Jax? Very far from Calgary...PM me should you want to hook up while in town....or atleast get the lay of the land on a few places to eat...

 

TP

 

To be short and to the point, Jacksonville, NC was the only place that had a dark interiored 2007 Legacy GT Wagon left.

 

To be long and verbose, you can read the story below:

Back around Christmas, my wife and I decided we wanted a new car to replace the Grand Am GT. I expected to buy a 2008 model in late 2007. It was to be either an SUV or a Wagon because we need cargo space for the kid(s).

 

So, time goes by. The value of the Canadian dollar and the US dollar begin to equalize. By the beginning of June, the US dollar was only worth $1.07 Cdn; the least it has been worth in 30 years. That, combined with the fact that cars have been generally cheaper in the US for a number of years meant two things: First, I had to buy a vehicle from the US, and second, it had to be done soon incase the exchange rate changed substantially.

 

I started looking. The list was somewhat narrowed by vehicles that are Duty exempt and by vehicles that have a large price descrepency between Canada and the US. The biggest savers were the Honda Pilot, Toyota Sequoia, and any Subaru. Honda Canada wont honor Honda US warranties, and Toyota wont sell to Canadian for Export from the US. That left only the Subaru.

 

I did a lot of research on the Subaru lineup, and really liked the Legacy GT wagon. I like the Legacy asthetics far more than the Outback asthetics. I decided to go ahead and purchase the Legacy GT Wagon. I called a few recommended dealers in Montana and Washington, only to find out that they were out of stock on 2007's. Then I learned that the US wasnt getting the Legacy Wagon in 2008!

 

The mad rush to find a remaining 2007 Wagon began. I had dealers search across the US for any remaing GT Wagons. They came up empty. I then used Autotrader.com to search for GT Wagons, and there were 15 adds for dealer stocked ones across the US. 2 Silver, 1 black, and 13 white or blue ones. I emailed each and every one of them. The 1 black one was still on the lot, and so were about 4 or 5 blue or white ones. The Taupe interior was a deal killer for me, so the black one it was.

 

And, you guessed it, the black one was in NC. The next morning, we made a verbal agreement for the car, and I wired the money the next day.

 

Granted, it is a 2500 mile drive home. But, my wife and I are looking forward to seeing NC and DC. We'll spend just less than a week out there before she'll fly home with my daughter and I'll start the long road trip.

 

I'd love to get some tips on what to see/do out there, where to eat, etc. The only states I have been to are Montana, Washington, California, Nevada, Arizona and Florida.