Some depressing numbers

[theimmortal]

...

 

I forgot to mention that I would LOVE a two door coupe version of a Saab 9-3 along with AWD and 300HP. It doesn't exist, and I don't know if it ever will but I would pay more for that, seriously. Thanks to the magic of photo shop we can see what it might look like:

 

 

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAAXDscXFpx*GrVcCuyNuMazddseVoxes6!IogsuPtNym3KVur8Ljj*0FR!P8iSGEEwfW6XJ9kyYusri4Kggb0SLeMJ53kmHCs8VYy7T7I3WXIwA0Xv80Q/9_3.jpg?dc=4675455171763662135

[theimmortal]

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TAAXDscXFpx*GrVcCuyNuMazddseVoxes6!IogsuPtNym3KVur8Ljj*0FR!P8iSGEEwfW6XJ9kyYusri4Kggb0SLeMJ53kmHCs8VYy7T7I3WXIwA0Xv80Q/9_3.jpg?dc=4675455171763662135

[jaymesbry]

unfortunately with the high cost of the AWD platform.. as in the higher price of the drive system as opposed to being 2WD system.. and of course good ole MPG penalties, Suburu will never truly be able to sell that many vehicles.

 

A lot of people are looking at the numbers, not really seeing what the true value of an AWD system is. Especially with the new EPA MPG testings, its really scary to see at the dealership! Many people dont understand what the advantage is of AWD/or dont care about it and will not pay extra for it, nor will want to get less MPG for it.

 

In regards to all the extra like blue tooth.. will they be in a subaru? yes eventually, but dont expect them to be at the forefront, they need to mass produce the vehicles with as little differentiating options as possible in order to keep prices competitive with other vehicles. Since subaru is attacking the high middle-entry end market, it makes sense to leave out the techno modifications until the market TRULY dictates what needs to be in a car.

 

(They dont really care what your average 20 year old wants in a car since they arent the ones expected to be purchasing at this stage.. you look at the civic and scion, they have those features because thats who they are marketing to, plain and simple)

 

oh well, just get the car that you want, and if theres something you dont like, then add it! Thats why i got this car, nice solid foundation to modify to make it perfect for me.

[theimmortal]

unfortunately with the high cost of the AWD platform.. as in the higher price of the drive system as opposed to being 2WD system.. and of course good ole MPG penalties, Suburu will never truly be able to sell that many vehicles.

 

A lot of people are looking at the numbers, not really seeing what the true value of an AWD system is. Especially with the new EPA MPG testings, its really scary to see at the dealership! Many people dont understand what the advantage is of AWD/or dont care about it and will not pay extra for it, nor will want to get less MPG for it.

 

In regards to all the extra like blue tooth.. will they be in a subaru? yes eventually, but dont expect them to be at the forefront, they need to mass produce the vehicles with as little differentiating options as possible in order to keep prices competitive with other vehicles. Since subaru is attacking the high middle-entry end market, it makes sense to leave out the techno modifications until the market TRULY dictates what needs to be in a car.

 

(They dont really care what your average 20 year old wants in a car since they arent the ones expected to be purchasing at this stage.. you look at the civic and scion, they have those features because thats who they are marketing to, plain and simple)

 

oh well, just get the car that you want, and if theres something you dont like, then add it! Thats why i got this car, nice solid foundation to modify to make it perfect for me.

 

When you build a major feature into a vehicle (a feature such as all wheel drive) then it becomes one of the integrated features of the car and the true cost is spread out over the entire production run (cost such as R&D), which actually reduces the costs of manufacturing major features such as this significantly. As an example, Quattro models account for about 80 percent of Audi's U.S. and this actually helps reduce the actual cost of this type of feature for the company. The perceived value of Quattro/AWD may actually be in the 2-5K range (not sure exactly) but there is a profit being made on the premium product as compared to the FWD model (which is rarely seen).

 

As Subaru has made AWD a de facto standard with their vehicles there is no true perceived incremental value to the AWD feature (within their range) as it is included with all of their cars which means that the differentiating features become either luxury, technology or performance (to simplifiy). The fact that AWD is included is quite persuasive to some but additionally a non issue to others that are shopping for a vehicle. This is why when viewing a G35 against a IS250 vs a Legacy GT Limited or Spec B features such as how it drives during a test drive or how the interior looks/smells/feels or how neat it is that you can talk over your car stereo, or the fact that it looks really sharp (whichever one it is) we must take into consideration that the other guy has "it" and we don't.

 

If Subaru decides that something isn't necessary in a given market, that doesn't make it necessarily a correct assumption. Pointing out that something like Bluetooth is a technological addition that is unnecessary is a little shortsighted. A company needs to look into the future, not sit in the present, and determine what is going to become necessary. Something simple (and relatively cheap) like Bluetooth will become an imbedded part of driving as a simple aspect of safety, not some fancy toy. Virtually every new model of cell phone comes out with Bluetooth as a standard feature. Just about every car coming out these days is coming out with this feature. If you implement it accross the board you automatically reduce costs through economies of scale (the more you build, the less it costs you per unit) and give the perception that you provide more value.

 

"Leading" the market through AWD hasn't been all that successful so far, so why not "follow" and kick some ass by giving more features and value than the other guys (in addition to the AWD)? After all, everyone likes their toys (he/she who dies with the most toys wins).

[SLegacy99]

To comment on the AWD aspect of Subaru; AWD is the reason I drive a Legacy. Its the reason we looked in the first place, its the reason my bro bought an Impreza and I got a newer Legacy. So thats at least two customer there who based their purchases of the fact that Subaru is one of the few companies to offer a resonably priced AWD car.

[ScoopMan]

Gee wiz, I have had compliments on how NICE the LGT Ltd interior is from design conscious architect clients as well as from some pretty well-off friends that drive German cars, including Audi. One could be cynical and say that they were only being polite, but C'mon! So it is not as nice as Audi, but so what? I am mostly very happy with how it is, and how intuitive the controls are. I really don't care about Bluetooth, to be honest. I wish it had a better sounding stereo, that is my only gripe, but it does not drive me insane.

What WOULD drive me insane is a car that drove like crap, or broke all the time, or looked butt ugly, or was ridiculously overpriced (like German cars). The Subie LGT is NONE of these things.

Subaru (or FHI, sorry) is a relatively small company, so it cannot very easily form a luxo/performance Lexus-type subgroup like Toyota can, but it can't really turn itself into a fully luxo-performance company like Audi either, without losing its basic no-frills Impreza customer base. So they have a bit of a dilemma in trying to be too many things for too many people.

I said it before, make STI like BMW M or Audi S and RS, and REALLY differentiate these from the base, not only performance-wise, but with nicer interiors as well.

Oh yeah, and better paint. PLEASE!

[pdw]

I bet any significant changes in interior materials and feel will be accompanied by a similar increase in price, and if that happens, while it makes a number of ppl happy, im sure an equal number of subaru fans would complain about the price increases saying their 'bargain' pocket rockets have gotten too pricy.

 

An example is all the flack the Spec B's have gotten for being priced the way they are, even tho they have more interior amenities than legacies preceeding, but, ppl still seem to focus on what the car doesn't have, rather than what's been included.

 

My experience over the last 7 years has been subaru ppl have grown increasingly fickle and difficult to please.

 

I don't think it should necessarily mean higher prices though I'd pay somewhat higher prices for better materials. Go look at the interior of a VW Jetta or Passat. The material quality is much better and the cars don't cost much more (yes, I realize they aren't as reliable). The interior quality on the new Camry is better than my LGT also as does the Acura TSX. Hell, the latest Hyundais have better quality materials IMO.

 

Realize that i mean material quality, not styling/design.

[SLegacy99]

Fleet Sales

 

http://www.fleet-central.com/af/stats2007/cars_web.pdf

[ScoopMan]

I don't think it should necessarily mean higher prices though I'd pay somewhat higher prices for better materials. Go look at the interior of a VW Jetta or Passat. The material quality is much better and the cars don't cost much more (yes, I realize they aren't as reliable). The interior quality on the new Camry is better than my LGT also as does the Acura TSX. Hell, the latest Hyundais have better quality materials IMO.

 

Realize that i mean material quality, not styling/design.

Our other car is a 2000 VW Passat. I might agree with you as far as first impressions go, it seemed extremely nice inside. But that car has had annoying squeaks since it was new, that the dealer was never able to properly fix. The fabric on the seats holds dirt like a magnet, vacuuming usually fails to break the static bond.

And while on the subject, the VW has some of the most miserably uncomfortable seats ever designed. Forget any trips of an hour or more, unless you relish tortuous back pain. The WORST.

On the other hand, the Subie has great seats, IMO. I have done 8 hours in those seats with nothing but gas breaks. No worries.

I did had the dreaded moonroof cover squeak, but the dealer took care of it, and the car is decently quiet. No complaints really.

[pdw]

Our other car is a 2000 VW Passat. I might agree with you as far as first impressions go, it seemed extremely nice inside. But that car has had annoying squeaks since it was new, that the dealer was never able to properly fix. The fabric on the seats holds dirt like a magnet, vacuuming usually fails to break the static bond.

And while on the subject, the VW has some of the most miserably uncomfortable seats ever designed. Forget any trips of an hour or more, unless you relish tortuous back pain. The WORST.

On the other hand, the Subie has great seats, IMO. I have done 8 hours in those seats with nothing but gas breaks. No worries.

I did had the dreaded moonroof cover squeak, but the dealer took care of it, and the car is decently quiet. No complaints really.

 

My wife's car is a '99 Passat V6 with a manual transmission (because she's cool) and leather. So I can't really speak to the cloth they put in though I have sat in them and could see it holding dirt. The cloth I had in my A4 was A LOT nicer. In fact it was the nicest cloth I've seen in any car.

 

I guess the Passat seats aren't the greatest though we've taken it on long trips and it's been fine. I've driven the LGT from Boston to PA and it was ok. I do with it had more legroom though.

 

In any event, if you look at the latest Jetta or Passat, I think the interiors are a lot nicer than the LGT. I still think the material quality in the LGT is below par compared to a number of other, comparably priced cars.

[ScoopMan]

My wife's car is a '99 Passat V6 with a manual transmission (because she's cool) and leather. So I can't really speak to the cloth they put in though I have sat in them and could see it holding dirt. The cloth I had in my A4 was A LOT nicer. In fact it was the nicest cloth I've seen in any car.

 

I guess the Passat seats aren't the greatest though we've taken it on long trips and it's been fine. I've driven the LGT from Boston to PA and it was ok. I do with it had more legroom though.

 

In any event, if you look at the latest Jetta or Passat, I think the interiors are a lot nicer than the LGT. I still think the material quality in the LGT is below par compared to a number of other, comparably priced cars.

That is funny... my wife has the V6 manual as well. She THINKS she is cool, I guess. She wanted the A4, but it was smaller and cost more. I talked her into the Passat.

I have not really checked out the new VW's except from the outside. I think many of their models are getting a bit fat and stupid, and their reliability is in the toilet, so I would not get one. I think VW has lost its way.

The LGT drives SOOOO much better than the Passat, it makes the VW seem like a coal barge by comparison.

My mother has a Volvo V50 wagon. Now THAT car has a nice interior! A bit too small for me though, and drivingwise cannot compare to the LGT.

Perhaps I am too easy to please, interior wise. I came UP from a '97 Chevy Blazer, so there you go.

I actually really LIKE some of the materials used by SOA, like the rubber on the door pulls and on the cubby door. The head liner fabric is a LOT nicer than some of the 'mouse fur' used by other makes. I would agree the carpet could be better, and the all-weather floor mats are not too robust, the drivers side is kaput.

[Dozer76]

I know Toyota sells quite a few cars to rental companies. I wonder if Subaru does the same. I would have a little lower number to keep the appeal of our cars.

[pdw]

I know Toyota sells quite a few cars to rental companies. I wonder if Subaru does the same. I would have a little lower number to keep the appeal of our cars.

 

The Outback does get sold to some rental agencies.

[SLegacy99]

The Outback does get sold to some rental agencies.

 

They are all over Hawaii.