When is Subaru coming out with a car that gets good gas mileage?

[ShrinerMonkey]

Why is everyone crying/up-in-arms about the environmental impact of nickel mining with these batteries???????? Is everyone that oblivious to iron ore strip-mining particularly in the Northern part of this country and Canada???? Uh, HELLO!!! Like as in the car you, me, and everyone else on this planet drive - and just about every other transportation system, large building, and other devices???

 

Perspective....

 

No, because a car (unless made of other materails) will require about the same amount of iron regardless if it is a hybrid or not. The nickle is just added environmental damage on top of the overall impact of manufacturing a car. Plus iron is not a carcinogen and nickle is in high quantities. Also, I could be wrong, but I believe it takes a lot more

 

http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/Ni-en.htm

[leggtnut]

I have a friend that had a gen 1 pryus and just had the batteries fail and had them replaced and he asked what they do with the old ones and they said that they have to send it to a landfill because they can only recycle 10% of the batteries and the cost is not there to recupe that little of the batteries. So he sold the pryus and bought a outback 2.5i because they have good enough milage and have less emissions than the newest gen pryus.

[SLegacy99]

So he sold the pryus and bought a outback 2.5i because they have good enough milage and have less emissions than the newest gen pryus.

 

In CA yes? So you can get an Outback that is PZEV but its not gonna be cleaner than the AT-PZEV Prius'.

[qikslvr]

I have a friend that had a gen 1 pryus and just had the batteries fail and had them replaced .

 

This is standard on every hybrid. They sell them to you with the line "they cost a little more at the time of purchase, but the great gas mileage will pay for the difference over the long run". This is a bunch of crap and has been proven. Much research has been done on this subject. You pay an extra $3k-$5k initially for the hybrid; which equates to approx. 1000 gallons of gas at current prices (and was closer to 2000 gallons when they started selling them). Then every 3+ years or so you have to replace the battery pack which is another few thousand dollars or another let's say 1000 gallons.

So now your 2000 galllons in the hole at let's say 4 years.

For easy calculations lets use 50MPG and a 10 gallon tank. So if your hybrid gets 50MPG and a non-hybrid of the same model gets 30MPG there is a 200 mile per tank gain in fuel effeciency or about 4 gallons of gas in your hybrid. At this rate you would have to fill your hybrid just shy of 500 times to make up the difference in up front purchase cost and the first battery replacement. Given that you would fill your hybrid every other week or ~25 times a year; in 20 years or so you would break even IF you didn't have to replace the batteries again.

 

I'm sure the price of batteries has gone down since I last researched this and someone will have an arguement to the contrary or explain how my math is flawed so.....Fire Away!

[leggtnut]

I was going by what my friend said. In CA the outback 2.5i is rated at .09 smog and the prius was rated at something like .1x don't remember the exact number.

[SLegacy99]

This is standard on every hybrid. They sell them to you with the line "they cost a little more at the time of purchase, but the great gas mileage will pay for the difference over the long run". This is a bunch of crap and has been proven. Much research has been done on this subject. You pay an extra $3k-$5k initially for the hybrid; which equates to approx. 1000 gallons of gas at current prices (and was closer to 2000 gallons when they started selling them). Then every 3+ years or so you have to replace the battery pack which is another few thousand dollars or another let's say 1000 gallons.

 

Firing.

 

1. Hybrids cost $1k-$3k more. You are exagerating with 5k.

2. Replace the batteries every 3 years. Are you nuts? Who would buy one then? Thats right, no one. This is honestly the first Ive seen of battery replacement and I spend sometime collecting info. on Prius chat.com. The first gen. Prius is 10 years old you know? Not 3.

3. My mom is spending alot less at the pump than I am right now.

4. The resale value is higher.

5. The first generation Prius, not so great. Slow and only 50 mpg.

[leggtnut]

I also forgot the battery cost him $3500 with labor to replace. He was steamed.

[SLegacy99]

I also forgot the battery cost him $3500 with labor to replace. He was steamed.

 

Why even bother replacing it then if he sold it?

[leggtnut]

Because the initally though he was going to keep it.

[SLegacy99]

Oh.

[qikslvr]

To everyone else. Sorry for getting off thread, but I must defend myself.

Firing.

1. Hybrids cost $1k-$3k more. You are exagerating with 5k.

2. Replace the batteries every 3 years. Are you nuts? Who would buy one then? Thats right, no one. This is honestly the first Ive seen of battery replacement and I spend sometime collecting info. on Prius chat.com. The first gen. Prius is 10 years old you know? Not 3.

3. My mom is spending alot less at the pump than I am right now.

4. The resale value is higher.

5. The first generation Prius, not so great. Slow and only 50 mpg.

 

Thats O.K. I'm a big boy and I wear kevlar.

First off; I've been driving longer than you have been alive and have been watching this since before you could drive anything other than a video game.

 

1. Gee, then why did the article I just read least month on about.com called "then cons of owning a hybrid" say $2k-$5k difference in purchase price. Get your info from more than one place; especially not just from a chat room for one car. I'm talking about all hybrids ever made. And I only had the battery being replaced in a 20 year period. It just happened to be at 4 years for the sake of conversation. I'm sure they won't last 20 years.

2. There were a ton of attempted hybrids in the late 90 and early 00's that disappeared for the reasons I stated. They cost more and didn't get much better mileage and the battery technology 10 years ago wasn't what it is today and some even caught fire and burned houses down. Remember those?(probably not cause you were 10 at the time)? I do. They had tons of recalls.

3. Good for her. I'm glad. My cousin waited 2 years to get a Civic hybrid that gets less milage than my Yaris and cost almost twice as much. Oh, and he can't run the stereo, rear defroster and headlights at the same time in town or the car flakes out .

4. That maybe true now, but you couldn't give away the first hybrid Honda used; same with the Fords.

5. I'm sure they have improved over the years; but they lost a lot of us when they we're first attempted because we couldn't see paying more for an underpowered vehicle that got maybe 10mpg better than the non-hybrid. And even if we cut my numbers in half or double the difference in mileage; it would still take 10 years to break even. If we did both it would still take 5.

Thanks for your input.

[SLegacy99]

To everyone else. Sorry for getting off thread, but I must defend myself.

 

 

Thats O.K. I'm a big boy and I wear kevlar.

First off; I've been driving longer than you have been alive and have been watching this since before you could drive anything other than a video game.

 

1. Gee, then why did the article I just read least month on about.com called "then cons of owning a hybrid" say $2k-$5k difference in purchase price. Get your info from more than one place; especially not just from a chat room for one car. I'm talking about all hybrids ever made. And I only had the battery being replaced in a 20 year period. It just happened to be at 4 years for the sake of conversation. I'm sure they won't last 20 years.

2. There were a ton of attempted hybrids in the late 90 and early 00's that disappeared for the reasons I stated. They cost more and didn't get much better mileage and the battery technology 10 years ago wasn't what it is today and some even caught fire and burned houses down. Remember those?(probably not cause you were 10 at the time)? I do. They had tons of recalls.

3. Good for her. I'm glad. My cousin waited 2 years to get a Civic hybrid that gets less milage than my Yaris and cost almost twice as much. Oh, and he can't run the stereo, rear defroster and headlights at the same time in town or the car flakes out .

4. That maybe true now, but you couldn't give away the first hybrid Honda used; same with the Fords.

5. I'm sure they have improved over the years; but they lost a lot of us when they we're first attempted because we couldn't see paying more for an underpowered vehicle that got maybe 10mpg better than the non-hybrid. And even if we cut my numbers in half or double the difference in mileage; it would still take 10 years to break even. If we did both it would still take 5.

Thanks for your input.

 

1. Okay, if you wanna argue the LS600h.

2. Oh yea? A ton you say? Name ten.

3. Sounds like it needs a new Alternator. Somewhat common problem among Civics and Mercury Cougars actually.

4. The first hybrid had 68 hp. Whats your point? a 2004 Prius costs almost as much as a new Prius.

5. 10 years? Again, are you nuts? A Prius will take you 2, a Camry 3-3.5, an Accord 5, Civic 2ish and with the way gas prices are going and the incorperation of Lithium Ion batteries, well you get the idea. And if your quick enough you can still get a tax break.

 

 

Battleship Hit!

[qikslvr]

I will take this one private so you guys don't have to re-read our discussions a dozen times. SLegacy99, I will send you a PM for further discussion.

 

p.s. Since this has nothing to do with subarus and we both have a strong opinion on this subject; as we should we will hash it out in private and maybe even start a new thread in the appropriate forum about the pros and cons of hybrids in thier current state.

[SLegacy99]

I will take this one private so you guys don't have to re-read our discussions a dozen times. SLegacy99, I will send you a PM for further discussion.

 

I cant wait.

[EL PAALO]

I cant wait.

you should sell your legacy, get a 1k beater, and give the leftover $ to charity.

[SLegacy99]

you should sell your legacy, get a 1k beater, and give the leftover $ to charity.

 

And that would do what for me?

[qikslvr]

SLegacy99, just wanted to say thanks. We both made our points and have come to and understanding through friendly debate. Excellent session.

 

Originally Posted by EL PAALO http://legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/buttons/viewpost.gif

you should sell your legacy, get a 1k beater, and give the leftover $ to charity.

 

When is there ever money left over to simply give away? If anyone has a pile of money laying around that they want to give away; I will gladly change my name to Charity.

[SLegacy99]

SLegacy99, just wanted to say thanks. We both made our points and have come to and understanding through friendly debate. Excellent session.

 

Wanna do it again in 5 years after technology has had time to change? Could be pretty interesting.

[red beast]

get a honda civic or fit

[Garandman]

Mid-sized wagons with decent MPG:

 

Mazda6 Sportwagon - now discontinued.

 

Ford Focus wagon - now discontinued.

 

Subaru Legacy wagon with 5spd manual - now discontinued.

 

Chevrolet Malibu Maxx - now discontinued.

 

The only thing we've found that fits that bill is the Scion xB, now bigger and uglier. Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Helix aren't very big. Actually a Prius has a decent amount of room for the size of the car. We need another company car and I'm juggling cargo/comfort/cost/mpg.

[SLegacy99]

Toyota Versa?

[iyalla]

VW Jetta Wagon?

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/wagons/112_0804_2009_volkswagen_jetta_sportwagen_first_drive

[SuperCleanLGT]

Toyota Versa?

 

 

it's nissan versa

[SuperCleanLGT]

And by the way MPG has nothing to do w/ emmisions in fact the higher we try to control our emmisions the worse our MPG gets. we keep trying ignorantly to lower emmisions but at the same time we are decreasing our mpg. Good luck. If we eliminated most emmision retrictions we could all enjoy exponentially better mpg. And we all know the better the MPG the less oil we consume.

[Beanboy]

Outback 5MT? Suspension swap away from being better in the corners versus as stock LGT.