Drumboy Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Hey Guys, New here of course but the first thing I've always cared or have been concenered about is braking distance, especially with power from the car. Is it possible to get the Subbie dealer to put the STi Brembo's on the LegacyGT when I take delievery of it? I know it'll cost more, but it won't void warranty and I'm assuming it's possible. Or is it better to get them off a website and have someone do it for me? Just looking at different options. Thanks! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumboy Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Well I just got off the phone with the Subbie dealer, he said that they've never tried putting on the STi Brembo's on the GT's only the WRX's. Hmm, shall I be the first? :redface: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy05GT Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 You'll be paying a pretty penny for 'em. Price: $3,000.00 at KingOfImports.com [url]http://www.kingofimports.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=94&idproduct=143[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumboy Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='Legacy05GT']You'll be paying a pretty penny for 'em. Price: $3,000.00 at KingOfImports.com [url="http://www.kingofimports.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=94&idproduct=143"]http://www.kingofimports.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=94&idproduct=143[/url][/QUOTE] I might be able to get them to lower the price since I'd be the first they've done. :redface: I mean, they should work..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Don't forget about Endless big brake kits... [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/stillwill/Myles%20pics/Zeals/2.jpg[/IMG] this particular setup is for our S13 drift car. 944 turbo guy Myles Williams [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] [email]sales@racecompengineering.com[/email] Racecomp Engineering LLC. 9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w Columbia, Maryland 21045 410-730-RACE 410-730-5503 FAX 410-707-0108 mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy05GT Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering']Don't forget about Endless big brake kits... [/QUOTE] Don't forget to list THE PRICE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 The. Legacy. Doesn't. Need. A. Big. Brake. Kit. The car has plenty of braking power. Better tires cost a fraction of a BBK, and will dramatically improve the car's stopping distance. The Legacy Brembo kit is something more like $5500. Cobb also is working on a BBK, which is more like $4K. A nice set of, say Bridgestone SO-3s are about $600 in the GT's size, and will do a lot more to improve braking distance (though has a much lower bling factor, admittedly) than a BBK. A Hyundai Sonata running R compounds will easily outbrake a GT with stock rubber, and a BBK. But the GT will look cooler, that's for sure. :D Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='Legacy05GT']Don't forget to list THE PRICE...[/QUOTE] They are still being developed for the 05 Legacy GT as we speak. We will have more info as it becomes availible. 944 turbo guy Myles Williams [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] [email]sales@racecompengineering.com[/email] Racecomp Engineering LLC. 9123 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite 103w Columbia, Maryland 21045 410-730-RACE 410-730-5503 FAX 410-707-0108 mobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Do you plan on tracking your car often? If so then a big brake kit would benefit you. The Cobb kit looks very nice from what I have seen. The Cobb BBK is relatively cheap, they say around 1800 on their web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Cobb has another kit they're working on, with boss-looking silver, COBB-embossed calipers, front and rear. That will be the spendy one. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidiq Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Pads, SS lines, and tires would make a world of difference on this car. Like people are saying, BBKs are really only going to be used on the track. First run braking distances are going to be about the same when used with the same rubber/suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcgliss Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 I agree with gtguy: better tires will improve braking under ALL weather conditions (the reason you bought a Sube right?) for a fraction of the pimp coin. My experience comes from running competition tires and street tires on various vehicles at open track events. Any OEM braking system can overwhelm stock tires to the point of ABS engagement, flatspotting, and chunking. If you aren't driving that hard now, then just save your money. Besides, the 2005 Legacy system is much improved this year. JC, Chicagoland bassist & opentracker 2005 LGT 5MT Ltd wagon 2005 LGT 5MT Ltd sedan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']The. Legacy. Doesn't. Need. A. Big. Brake. Kit. The car has plenty of braking power. Better tires cost a fraction of a BBK, and will dramatically improve the car's stopping distance. The Legacy Brembo kit is something more like $5500. Cobb also is working on a BBK, which is more like $4K. A nice set of, say Bridgestone SO-3s are about $600 in the GT's size, and will do a lot more to improve braking distance (though has a much lower bling factor, admittedly) than a BBK. A Hyundai Sonata running R compounds will easily outbrake a GT with stock rubber, and a BBK. But the GT will look cooler, that's for sure. :D Kevin[/QUOTE] I sorta disagree,.......what the GT's brakes lack even with good tires and aggressive pads, will be clamping force. YOu could put Pirelli D5 soft slicks on it,..and there are limitations on the brake system. But this tends to be based on how its used and who is driving. What I do agree with is that , yes the tires and lines, and a better pad will suffice for most. But for the serious or intermediate driver, they will be searching for more. So GT, we are prob saying the same thing,..I may be adding to it.....sorry !! 944 turbo guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidiq Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering']clamping force[/QUOTE] Wouldn't that be dependant on the master cylinder? It can only pump so much fluid to the brake system, and with bigger calipers I would think more fluid would be needed, and more pressure would have to be applied. I could be mistaken though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering']I sorta disagree,.......what the GT's brakes lack even with good tires and aggressive pads, will be clamping force. YOu could put Pirelli D5 soft slicks on it,..and there are limitations on the brake system. But this tends to be based on how its used and who is driving. What I do agree with is that , yes the tires and lines, and a better pad will suffice for most. But for the serious or intermediate driver, they will be searching for more. So GT, we are prob saying the same thing,..I may be adding to it.....sorry !! 944 turbo guy[/QUOTE] If you can set off the ABS, you have plenty of brake, which the GT has. Does anyone remember the good old days, when a 12.4" rotor was HUGE? :lol: I've been through two Skip Barber schools (driving and racing) autocrosses, track days, ice racing (no brakes, though) and rallycrosses. And in my experience, the GT's brakes are excellent. The stock rubber is, for stopping fanatics, the weak link. Even Cobb, in their writeup on their BBK, admitted to the excellence of the stock GT brakes. I would say that if you are tracking the car, do pads, lines and fluid. This will help fade, and you can choose the pad of your choice, aggressive or otherwise. But there is no street driving situation in the universe where the stock GT brakes will be anything less than excellent. Don't forget that when Car & Driver tested BBKs on a WRX, their stopping distances weren't all that much better than a stock car. They seemed surprised, but for the life of me I don't know why. Sure, you can put 13.5" rotors on the GT in the front, and whoppers in the rear. Is the master cylinder okay for that? Dunno. But why bother when you don't have to? I know there's a perception of me as anti-mod, one that I don't think is accurate. I just want people to fess up. "They look cool, so sign me up!" Hey, that gold Brembo kit would look awesome peeking out from behind my stock GT wheels. But no way would I buy it, expecting to dramatically improve my stopping distances. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JessterCPA Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 How about these? $60 on Ebay. J/K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='liquidiq']Wouldn't that be dependant on the master cylinder? It can only pump so much fluid to the brake system, and with bigger calipers I would think more fluid would be needed, and more pressure would have to be applied. I could be mistaken though.[/QUOTE] well this is true some times, with most cars, but some cars have decent sized master cylinders,..then the other issue is if just adding front brake kit, yes you would be fine,.aits when you go to add the rear that you would have an issue,..maybe. The Legacy is already fine. I think the car is more capable than the WRX, due to the long wheelbase. Imagine a SPEED WORLD CHALLENGE GT LEGACY WITH FLARED FENDERS, 550 hp 3 litre TURBO.........( resemble the AUdi R6 in SPEED now) pass me a towel................:D 944 turbo guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='liquidiq']Wouldn't that be dependant on the master cylinder? It can only pump so much fluid to the brake system, and with bigger calipers I would think more fluid would be needed, and more pressure would have to be applied. I could be mistaken though.[/QUOTE] Hydraulic theory is exactly the opposite.. Remember pulleys? The more rope you have to pull, the heavier the object you can lift... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Hey, I would be the first to admit we are working on our own BBK with AP calipers - we actually have the calipers and brackets for fitting on to the stock rotors, but we also want a kit that fits on top of STi sized rotors. That will force people to buy bigger rims, but given that the average buyer of such a kit already had some big rims on... My views on caliper upgrades should be fairly well known by now, despite my status as a vendor. I get swayed by bling factor very easily though, so I won't be crying up a storm as we test the AP's. :D But there are some valid reasons for a big brake kit. Or, for clarity, a big rotor kit. For that is the main aim, to get some bigger rotors under there. Bigger rotors will improve the fade resistance in track racing. There is also far more rotors made in the STi size than in the new Legacy size. And another small benefit of the bigger rotor is in leverage - because the brake caliper and their contact point with the rotors is moved further out (the pads), there is a slight improvement in clamping force due to the increase in leverage. And they look gooooood. :D :D Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url] [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 [quote name='Drumboy']Hey Guys, New here of course but the first thing I've always cared or have been concenered about is braking distance, especially with power from the car. Is it possible to get the Subbie dealer to put the STi Brembo's on the LegacyGT when I take delievery of it? I know it'll cost more, but it won't void warranty and I'm assuming it's possible. Or is it better to get them off a website and have someone do it for me? Just looking at different options. Thanks! :)[/QUOTE] If you are worried about braking distance, look into tire upgrades. It's the tires that make you stop.. I know that the stock brakes are powerful enough to just lock up the brakes, but it's the tires' grip capacity that will determine your stopping distance. For example, and exaggerated one: just imagine if one tire is made of ice (or a friction coeffiecent of ice), and another made of metal spikes that digs into the pavement.. which one would stop quicker? Not all tire compounds are the same. I say upgrade the tires.. if you still feel that you cant stop, upgrade the brake pads. SOA of USA and SOA of Japan keep certain options not available per market.. so I doubt you will be able to get that kind of request anyways from your dealer to get the JDM Brembos for your USDM GT. So in that regard, warranty would be voided if the dealer installs them for you because it's an option that is not even offered to the US market. You can order from some other company for the STi Brembos instead. There's also other BBK options as well if you are inclined to just get something that can stop, but again, it's the tires that do all of the real braking work. I know that [url]www.racecompengineering.com[/url] can get you some Endless Brake kits that are OEM sized if you like. That's one thing good about Endless, the combinations of brake kits you want or need are, well, "Endless" :p Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan2 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 The most cost effective way of upgrading the braking is to go with upgraded pads, and rotors. The Legacy already has pretty big brakes (although you can always go bigger), and with decent rubber hauls up mighty quick indeed. However, with std tyres, you are not anywhere near the potential of the system. Once you over tyre it, then upgrade some of the components (including suspension), and when you suddenly find that the ABS only comes in very rarely but your eyeballs are on the windscreen when you dance on the stoppers, you'll know if you need more ;) All IMHO, but I am speaking from a wee bit of experience :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumboy Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 Awesome info guys thanks a lot for all the feedback. I'll have to see how the brakes are on the Legacy. When I test drove it, they felt very responsive. Course, I've got StopTech's on my A4 so I kinda am used to good brakes. :) Anyways, I'll keep all of this in mind when I get the car here soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emlevins Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 [quote name='RaceComp Engineering']well this is true some times, with most cars, but some cars have decent sized master cylinders,..then the other issue is if just adding front brake kit, yes you would be fine,.aits when you go to add the rear that you would have an issue,..maybe. The Legacy is already fine. I think the car is more capable than the WRX, due to the long wheelbase. Imagine a SPEED WORLD CHALLENGE GT LEGACY WITH FLARED FENDERS, 550 hp 3 litre TURBO.........( resemble the AUdi R6 in SPEED now) pass me a towel................:D 944 turbo guy[/QUOTE] More capable than the WRX? In braking?? OK, OK, I've said it before and some (many?) disagree...and we'll agree to disagree BUT...car mag testing indicates that in 60-0 braking tests, the 02 WRX has about a 15' advantage over an 05 LGT...both with stock RE-92s (albeit different sizes...LGT with 17", WRX with 16" tires). And as to brake feel...the WRX has more "bite" (which many on this site have noted). Now, some prefer this, others don't. My preference is for the WRX brakes... whatever I can do to replicate WRX braking with the LGT, I would consider doing. Not that the LGT is bad. Just that 1) I prefer the feel of the WRX braking and 2) I do believe the WRX stops more quickly. Aside from braking (and perhaps cornering...though I am rethinking the "cornering" issue as I approach 1400 miles on my LGT...cornering seems to be better and better and I'm lovin the twisties more and more), I think the LGT is far superior to the WRX. 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited (aka "Pearl")- 5MT AP - Stage 2 Protuned (238/284) - wife driven 07 BMW 335xi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan2 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 RE-92s are not all the same, even though the tread patterns may be identical but the compounds, even the internal construction may vary for many different reasons. In general you can thank CARB for the changes that focus on improving rolling resistance (and usually lessen grip). A case in point would be, the er, "case" of the 050 ('scuse the very poor pun ;) ). The JDM (and Aussie) GT's 17" RE-050 is rather different to the 18" version on teh spec B. That does not mean the 17" is a bad tyre, but 18" may be a touch better in some aspects... Cheers :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 [B] Braking distances in magazines are SOLEY dictated by the TIRES... [/B] If you can lock up the tires your brakes are big enough. BBK are for bling, feel, and perhaps better cooling during track days. The LGT brakes are leaps and bounds better than the WRX. Ill leave it at that. Not only are the rear rotors the same size as the WRX front rotors, the LGT brakes are vented all around. For linear acceleration and deceleration softer sloppy sidewall tires brake better than stiff sidewall tires of the same design, thats why the WRX brakes shorter with an inferior brake system. Thats why some sloppy SUV's have better braking distances than some sports sedans with all seasons. Just like a drag radial sidewall flex tends to provide a better linear tractive surface. It just becomes sloppy when you corner. You want shorter braking... upgrade your tires not your brakes. You can spend $50,000 on a carbon F1 brake kit and you will brake the same distance as stock system with the same tires. Locking up your tires= locking up your tires no matter what you do it with wether it is a multi thousand dollar brake kit, the stock brakes, or simply throwing a stick between the spokes of the wheels. Only when your tires overwhelm your brake system does a BBK become advantagous as far as braking distances go. This is not the case in the Legacy... The brakes overwhelm the tire's tractive capabilty so easily that it boggles my mind why anybody would EVER mate such a crappy tire with this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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