2007 WOT problems, seems beyond stutter

[holter95]

A class action wouldn't get you anywhere, since the stutter problem does not cause any imminent safety risk nor does it damage the car. It is merely an inconvenience. You'd just waste a lot of time and money. I have the stutter too, and yes it is annoying, and yes, I think Subaru should have figured it out by now. IMHO from everything I've read, it really points to an ECM calibration function. However, I think SoA has established they're going to play dumb and it's unlikely anything will change unless it becomes a safety or reliability issue. Also previously mentioned in this thread are the implications of the impact on emissions, which means you need to do all sorts of development testing to recertify the fix to appease the feds. Plainly put, the fix would cost a lot to develop and they don't see it as necessary. I'm not real up-to-speed on lemon laws, but this may get dismissed.

 

As for the downshift "lag" that this thread originally started with, it's likely transmission calibration on the 5EAT. Nowadays with the fly-by-wire throttle control, it's all computer controlled, and to avoid "bobble" and "jerk" and all those other tranny resonance snafus, they usually just do the simple fix and dumb down the gains on the control loop so you save the tranny. You think it's bad in the Subies, go test drive aon 05 Ford Explorer - it's downright dangerous. It's usually a two-fold combination of not-so-great calibration engineers and management who don't really know how the car should drive and subsequently saturate the tuning of the vehicle with their un-skilled opinion (this rant driven from big-company experience which I could go on ad-nauseum about).

 

If somebody comes across a fix, or better evidence of what is happening, or the APs do the trick - I'm all ears. I just think SoA is going to be of little help based on what I'm reading. I think the problem has been well documented, and it's probably up to us to sniff out the solution.

[vader1]

I am gonna respectfully disagree. This problem semms to be on countless cars. And yet it not not occur on countless others. I test drove three cars that did not have any stutter at all. There are board members that post they have been stutter free since purchase, and some reports of fixs from installing a new TB. If some cars have it and others don't, it seems as though there is an obvious defect in the ones that do.

 

C&D had a long term legacy that had some issues, but they made no mention of lumpy acceleration or stutter, only that it was a pleasantly fast sleeper. Given that they like to point out anything that annoys them, I think they would have made some mention that it was occuring during a yearlong test. If it drove anything like the car my dealer obtained for me, they certainly would have brought it up. The stutter is downright ridiculous at times.

 

As soon as the weather is nice enough to get my S2000 out of storage and I can leave the car with the dealer for a while. I am told the service manager is pretty responsive and familiar with stutter issues (although they have been resorting to reflashes to try to fix). I will tell them that there seems to be some success with other cars and throttle body replacements and please eliminate that as a possible problem before looking at a reflash. If they do what they can and I pick up the car and it still stutters, I will turn around and drop it off again. I will do this a third time and then if it is not fixed say we need to talk with the regional customer service rep to get this fix or I want to lemon law it.

 

I just can not accept that this problem is unfixable if there are cars out there that do not exhibit this problem at all. If some people want to put up with it, thats up to them, but my car drives very poorly and there is no excuse for a $30k+ vehicle to do that. Especially when I drove at least one car fairly hard for about an hour plus test drive that had no problem. That car was nothing but smooth and powerfull the whole time.

 

If your stutter is minor and you can put up with it, I envy you. I can not tell you how bad mine is at times.

[dr_sharp]

I am gonna respectfully disagree. This problem semms to be on countless cars. And yet it not not occur on countless others. I test drove three cars that did not have any stutter at all. There are board members that post they have been stutter free since purchase, and some reports of fixs from installing a new TB. If some cars have it and others don't, it seems as though there is an obvious defect in the ones that do.

 

C&D had a long term legacy that had some issues, but they made no mention of lumpy acceleration or stutter, only that it was a pleasantly fast sleeper. Given that they like to point out anything that annoys them, I think they would have made some mention that it was occuring during a yearlong test. If it drove anything like the car my dealer obtained for me, they certainly would have brought it up. The stutter is downright ridiculous at times.

 

As soon as the weather is nice enough to get my S2000 out of storage and I can leave the car with the dealer for a while. I am told the service manager is pretty responsive and familiar with stutter issues (although they have been resorting to reflashes to try to fix). I will tell them that there seems to be some success with other cars and throttle body replacements and please eliminate that as a possible problem before looking at a reflash. If they do what they can and I pick up the car and it still stutters, I will turn around and drop it off again. I will do this a third time and then if it is not fixed say we need to talk with the regional customer service rep to get this fix or I want to lemon law it.

 

I just can not accept that this problem is unfixable if there are cars out there that do not exhibit this problem at all. If some people want to put up with it, thats up to them, but my car drives very poorly and there is no excuse for a $30k+ vehicle to do that. Especially when I drove at least one car fairly hard for about an hour plus test drive that had no problem. That car was nothing but smooth and powerfull the whole time.

 

If your stutter is minor and you can put up with it, I envy you. I can not tell you how bad mine is at times.

Well said... I would also say that this IS a potential safety issue and in no way shape or form is it good for the car. It may not seem like it is harmful but everytime it happens it diminishes the life of the car

[holter95]

Well said... I would also say that this IS a potential safety issue and in no way shape or form is it good for the car. It may not seem like it is harmful but everytime it happens it diminishes the life of the car

How?

[diamondgraymetallic21]

That's crazy, I'd never looked in this section of the forums, but my 07' has same issue. Really bad in S#, actually so bad I never drive in it, you go for a pass and your car suddenly falls on it's face. I took it into the dealer and explained what was wrong, so they sent a tech out for a ride with me and I got it to do it while the tech was in the car and he said that's normal turbo lag for the car. I told him I've driven several turbo'd vehicles and never had one fall on it's face that bad, makes me partially upset to have a brand new car with issues that the dealer pretends are normal. When I was leaving the dealer the guy who actually sold me my LGT asked what was up with the car and I told him, he told me it's impossible to get the dealership to do anything and best fix for it is an aftermarket ecu ie AP or whatnot.

[Vimy101]

I have no studder (knock wood). However, I'm curious to know if you studder suffers all literally put the "pedal to the metal" in your WOT runs. I go WOT daily but never slam the accelerator to the floor. I advance the pedal quickly but never feel the need to pin it to the firewall as maximum acceleration/power seems to come before that point.

[SiMaster2003]

I have no studder (knock wood). However, I'm curious to know if you studder suffers all literally put the "pedal to the metal" in your WOT runs. I go WOT daily but never slam the accelerator to the floor. I advance the pedal quickly but never feel the need to pin it to the firewall as maximum acceleration/power seems to come before that point.

 

 

This appears to be an '07 specific problem that seems to be affecting the Imprezas also as the STi Limiteds were having a similar problem. My '07 Spec-B certainly does it in every gear except 1st. And that is at 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle starting at around 3k and continuing sporadically until 4k where it pulls like it should. The theory that Subaru doesn't wan't to lose it's ULEV certification by recalibrating the ECU is a pretty good one. It sounds like a pretty likely scenario. Hopefully Cobb comes through soon and we can self calibrate.

[mickeyd2005]

There is a SOA reflash available for the 2007 STi to correct the stutter. The 2007 STi still uses ISO9141-2 so the dealers can reflash it.

[02BlkRex]

This appears to be an '07 specific problem that seems to be affecting the Imprezas also as the STi Limiteds were having a similar problem. My '07 Spec-B certainly does it in every gear except 1st. And that is at 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle starting at around 3k and continuing sporadically until 4k where it pulls like it should. The theory that Subaru doesn't wan't to lose it's ULEV certification by recalibrating the ECU is a pretty good one. It sounds like a pretty likely scenario. Hopefully Cobb comes through soon and we can self calibrate.

 

You are incorrect that it is '07 specific. There are many '05-'06's on here that are chiming in with the same symptoms.

 

The most common way to fix this is use some type of EM, usually an AP. That sucks for us '07 owners since we can't go this route at this time. Someone else had the throttle body or something replaced and it fixed it. You can do a search (or it may even be in this thread) to find out the exact circumstances on that one. Other's have reset the ECU and it worked for a while.

 

Like everyone else, I think this is bull and SOA should do something about it. Will they? Probably not. Will Cobb ever come out with the AP for '07's? Hope so, 'cuz that's how I'm gonna fix mine.

[redpill66]

That's crazy, I'd never looked in this section of the forums, but my 07' has same issue. Really bad in S#, actually so bad I never drive in it, you go for a pass and your car suddenly falls on it's face. I took it into the dealer and explained what was wrong, so they sent a tech out for a ride with me and I got it to do it while the tech was in the car and he said that's normal turbo lag for the car. I told him I've driven several turbo'd vehicles and never had one fall on it's face that bad, makes me partially upset to have a brand new car with issues that the dealer pretends are normal. When I was leaving the dealer the guy who actually sold me my LGT asked what was up with the car and I told him, he told me it's impossible to get the dealership to do anything and best fix for it is an aftermarket ecu ie AP or whatnot.

 

After reading this, I dont feel bad for not trying the dealer (and canceling my appointment). This is exactly the response I would expect after reading numerous other dealer stories.

 

Just going to hold out for AP. has COBB made any mention of this issue/a temporary workaround?

[SiMaster2003]

You are incorrect that it is '07 specific. There are many '05-'06's on here that are chiming in with the same symptoms.

 

The most common way to fix this is use some type of EM, usually an AP. That sucks for us '07 owners since we can't go this route at this time. Someone else had the throttle body or something replaced and it fixed it. You can do a search (or it may even be in this thread) to find out the exact circumstances on that one. Other's have reset the ECU and it worked for a while.

 

Like everyone else, I think this is bull and SOA should do something about it. Will they? Probably not. Will Cobb ever come out with the AP for '07's? Hope so, 'cuz that's how I'm gonna fix mine.

 

There are '05 and '06 that have a noticable loss of power at positions of the accelorator past 1/2 between 3000 and 4000? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 05 - 06 problem was with half throttle acceleration. Besides all of that the thread title explicitly said "2007 WOT problems, seems beyond stutter", which precludes the 05 and 06's. This does seem to be a completely different problem from what the older LGTs are experiencing, so it would not surprise me that someone with an '06 is noticing it. From what I understand Vimy's job on this board is to make sure that everyone knows that his 2006 Spec-B has no problems at all. I hope I can say the same about my Spec-B some day.

 

I would fall over dead if Subaru does anything about the 07's. I don't think it's a coincedence that the '07s are literally covered with mileage monitors and then someone mentions on here that Subaru wouldn't want to lose their ULEV by recalibrating the ECU. People bitched about teh gas mileage and viola, now the '07s have 3 mileage monitors, Si Drive with I mode and recalibrated ECUs with an emphasis getting more MPG. Cobb will come out with an AP soon enough and we can fix what Subaru will not.

[Vimy101]

From what I understand Vimy's job on this board is to make sure that everyone knows that his 2006 Spec-B has no problems at all. I hope I can say the same about my Spec-B some day.

 

Not every owner is affected by the studder. I would think that would be an important bit of information. Why some do and some don't....

 

If it makes you feel any better, I do have a couple of the frequently reported rattles.

[diamondgraymetallic21]

Forgot to add that the tech at the dealer said you have to be experiencing 4-5 second turbo lag before they are allowed to do a reflash, my lag was only around 2 seconds, which is still ridiculous. And the best part about it is, it starts lagging after it's already gone into boost, which wouldn't be lag. LoL I love common sense.

[a.lim]

my 07 is @ 4000 miles and the studder seems to be slowly disappearing.. wonder if itll eventually stop completely.

[t-type86]

im almost at 7k... stutter remains.... just waiting for a nice day to get my UTEC and DP on

[02BlkRex]

my 07 is @ 4000 miles and the studder seems to be slowly disappearing.. wonder if itll eventually stop completely.

 

Are you sure you aren't just getting used to it?

[han]

I have already posted about on this thread saying I feel the stutter as well, but has anyone ever had this happen?;

 

where you are in first gear, rolling really slowly and barely resting your foot on the gas and not pressing in the clutch at all, and it doesn't really want to stall, and then you press the throttle anywhere from half to full and NOTHING HAPPENS, like the feeling letting go of the gas, then about 1.5 seconds later, starts to go??? This doesn't normally happen, but every once in a while, like 1 out of 30 times it happens...

[Dong Homez]

SI-Drive = Studdering Involuntarily Drive

[02BlkRex]

I have already posted about on this thread saying I feel the stutter as well, but has anyone ever had this happen?;

 

where you are in first gear, rolling really slowly and barely resting your foot on the gas and not pressing in the clutch at all, and it doesn't really want to stall, and then you press the throttle anywhere from half to full and NOTHING HAPPENS, like the feeling letting go of the gas, then about 1.5 seconds later, starts to go??? This doesn't normally happen, but every once in a while, like 1 out of 30 times it happens...

 

I've had that happen. Has anyone maintained a constant foot/throttle position in first or second gear and felt the car fluctuate? Kinda like you are tapping your toe to music or something.

[dr_sharp]

This thread stresses me out. I'm going to have to close my eyes and cross my fingers when I sign the papers.

[han]

I've had that happen. Has anyone maintained a constant foot/throttle position in first or second gear and felt the car fluctuate? Kinda like you are tapping your toe to music or something.

 

DUDE yea!!1 i totally have that happen once in while as well!

 

I really think that something must be up with the throttle body sensor or something to that sort... when did subaru to go Drive-by-Wire??

[Dong Homez]

This thread stresses me out. I'm going to have to close my eyes and cross my fingers when I sign the papers.

 

When do you plan to buy yours?

[han]

This thread stresses me out. I'm going to have to close my eyes and cross my fingers when I sign the papers.

 

getting the '07 i presume? or you could get the '08 right?

[dr_sharp]

Purchasing within the next month or so. And yes, the 07... I really prefer the looks of the 07 in all aspects. 07s will be discounted and 08's will likely share many issues with the 07s (assuming this is an SI drive problem)... a few 08s have been spotted but it'd be very difficult to find and acquire

[a.lim]

Are you sure you aren't just getting used to it?

 

studder problems at first were very dramatic and i can measure the jerkyness with my body movement. its NOTHING like it was at first now..