SLegacy99 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The 2007 Volvo S60 2.5T with AWD features 208 hp and goes for $32,735. C’mon, be honest. Would you rather have a Volvo or a Subaru? The 2007 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro (AWD) has 200 hp and is $30,340. The A4 3.2 Quattro has 255 hp and goes for $36,440. Audi or Subaru? The 2007 BMW 328xi (AWD) - 230 hp, $34,300. BMW or Subaru? The 2007 Passat 3.6-liter V6 280 hp 4Motion (AWD) -- $31,910. Passat or Subaru? 1. Subaru. Volvos are for people who dont like to drive and Haladex AWD SUCKS! 2. I might take the A4 if I were only gonna keep it for 2 years. My dad had a 4 year lease on an A6. Beatiful car and fun to drive, but HORRIBLE quality. 3. BMW also has repair issues. It would depend on how much money I had. 4. VW = cheaper Audi = never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Stock (USDM) LGT handling is mediocre. However, with simple dampers/springs/sway upgrade (just like JDM SpecB) you get it to BMW level. The handling on my LGT when it was stock was wonderful. Much better than many other cars I had driven. My dad compares each car to his '88 Prelude which he claims is the best handling car he ever drove. My '96 LGT met his standards and the '99 exceeds it. His 330xi is ok, but its just not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Stock (USDM) LGT handling is mediocre. However, with simple dampers/springs/sway upgrade (just like JDM SpecB) you get it to BMW level. I'm comparing to LGT, not OB. And making those changes, along with tires & bushings too you can easily exceed BMW roadhandling numbers, but you'll never get it to feel like a BMW, it's just not built that well. Plus there's nothing simple about upgrading struts on the LGT, and by the time you're done (if you can find them) with all that you've spent better than the BMW maintanance costs for 60k+ miles. Don't get me started on road noise, seat comfort, ride quality, dual(ing) ACC, stock stereo, wierd interior lighting, wierd sunroof switch, tramlining, the list goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Plus there's nothing simple about upgrading struts on the LGT, and by the time you're done (if you can find them) with all that you've spent better than the BMW maintanance costs for 60k+ miles. Sturts/spring upgrade is inexpensive. Less than $1k. I don't get your point of comparing to maintance cost of BMW. Go buy a Beemer. Nice car, but less bang for the buck. And make sure to get rid of it before warranty expires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I'm comparing to LGT, not OB. So you're on crack. Confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The handling on my LGT when it was stock was wonderful. Much better than many other cars I had driven. Good handling is relative. Stock LGT handles better than most passenger cars on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenon expert Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 So you're on crack. Confirmed. I have to agree on this. Unless you are talking about a Jeep SRT-8, having driven many Jeeps I can tell you that handling is not good at all. Every reviews I read about Jeeps seem to agree with people here. Handling is not Jeep's forte. I respect your opinion but if you think your old Jeep handled better than the LGT we certainly don't have the same definition of what good handling means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I've never put the two side-by-side on the skidpad. Whoever had better tires would win, hand's down. But that's not handling, that's tire adhesion. A car's handling is so much more than that. It's about how confident it feels in a turn, about how the car inspires the driver in corners, at speed, while braking, etc. It's about precision, feedback, responsiveness. And it's about balancing ride quality with performance. You don't get good handling by just adding stiffer springs. It's an art & a science. It's not qualitative. That old Grand Cherokee was far more confident in turns, it was poised & predictable. The subie is manic & uncomposed, floaty & feels like a blunt instrument. And the ride's rougher to boot. The Jeep I'm referencing is no handling standard, it's just a comparison & happened to be my last car. '99 grand Cherokee limited w/tow pkg. Was it faster thru turns than an LGT? Not if the LGT is pushed. But read the above again - handling isn't just how well a car sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaWolverine Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I had a Jeep and they handle pretty much like other mid-sized SUVs. The LGTs have some roll, but nothing compared to the Jeep. Take a Jeep on a winding road and push it, how well a vehicle sticks is very important. I know that feedback to the driver is important, and for that reason, BMWs are definitely among the best, but I don't think you can compare the LGT to a Jeep. I think, in general, the writer was a bit too harsh. Let's just acknowledge that what he looks for in a car is completely different to those who enjoy spirited driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfxdave99 Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 lol i love a good flame war If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 He's right, I expect more if paying 35-36k.. my GT was a bargain considering the below invoice price I got it for, but once you're in the mid 30's forget it... Not paying 35k for something that stutters, and the dealers treat you like shit for insisting something is wrong with the car.. Subaru isn't even competing in terms of stock power anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanKen Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Okay noob..unclear why you are so hostile. you might wanna check yourself. I have priced out the 3.6 4motion on the VW website fully optioned and it comes to 39K. My point which you obviously missed the nuances of was that the specB FULLY OPTIONED OUT, I.E. WITH EVERYTHING YOU CAN GET ON THE CAR is about 35K Oh and by the way? Its even worse on the BMW website. I didnt just make the point about the VW. There was no rant, and thanks for playing Yeah. I was a bit harsh. Sorry. However, a fully optioned Passat has stuff that Subaru doesn't even offer. I don't see the connection. You cannot option up a Subbie with the same toys. An equivalently optioned VW is just a bit more than the Spec.B. And it is still not $45K as the post claimed. And yeah, BMW is way worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 It's like high school kids convincing themselves they're the coolest in the parking lot. WAIT, my car isn't the coolest.... The point here is that the revewers perceptions are not unique and that highlights Subaru's marketing problems in the US. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The point here is that the revewers perceptions are not unique and that highlights Subaru's marketing problems in the US. Bingo! Give the man a prize. And the Jeep - let it go people, it was just an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagcars26 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The point here is that the revewers perceptions are not unique and that highlights Subaru's marketing problems in the US. Rob mentions this exact thing earlier in this thread,,I agreed then and I agree again now.Subarus marketing dept needs a revamp. And I am so sick of the "everyday is a winding road" backround music in the commercials I could scream. DO the commercials but do some different music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfxdave99 Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 I think that Sheryl crow must have hooked up that deal for that song when she was dating Lance and he was shilling for SOA.. Since Lance gave her the boot, so should SOA But now every time i hear everyday is a winding road im waiting for that voiceover guy to break in with "Subaru model in clearance......" Back on topic however.. one of my big peeves about the passat is that which I understand how VW / Audi are going for the strong branded image thing and all, but for Audi's at least I can still tell an A4 from an A6 and so on on first or 2nd look.. but honestly. and it shames me to say this as someone who prides themselves on being able to identify every car on the road I have to do a badge check between a jetta and a passat.. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2007/Volkswagen/2007.volkswagen.passat.20105642-E.jpg http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2007/Volkswagen/2007.volkswagen.jetta.20104994-E.jpg Ahh now that i look at them side by side i'll be able to identify them, the passat has the rip off legacy headlights and the jetta has those strange warts on the bumper.. Oh well at least now im studied up on it.. then again i suppose it would be better to have a passat mistaken for a jetta then a legacy mistaken for a camry If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfxdave99 Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 What Edmunds.com Says:Want to buy a Mercedes CLS but can't afford the $70K entry fee? Volkswagen may have the answer with this upscale variation on its Passat sedan. What We Know: Volkswagen confirmed in April that it would be introducing a more upscale Passat to the lineup for the 2008 model year. Although it's tentatively being called the Passat coupe, it's really more of a sleek sedan along the lines of Mercedes CLS. Like the CLS, this version of the Passat will be positioned as a more upscale model in the lineup. The company will most likely be building 50-60,000 units a year of this vehicle in Dresden -- an underused VW manufacturing location which is home to the Volkswagen Phaeton. The 2008 Passat Coupe will be available in front- and all-wheel-drive configurations, with a choice of various four- and six-cylinder engines. The five-door Passat coupe will most likely debut at the 2007 Frankfurt Motor Show. If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Subaru isn't even competing in terms of stock power anymore. Oh yeah it is... and it's evidenced in weight of the vehicle... the spec.b is significantly quicker than all those damn cars. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA SUUB Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 And don't get started with the "my Girlfriend's brother's neighbor had an Audi that did this..." Seriously, if it were even remotely like you say all those companies would be out of biz. My comments were based upon the ownership experiences of a close friend who I go skiing with every weekend in the winter and a co-worker of mine two offices down the hall. Both own A4s - both will never own another. I looked at a BMW 325xi wagon before I bought my Subie. As far as I am concernced, the performance of the Subie was superior in every aspect. The Subaru has nothing to apologize for in the way of standard equipment as well compared to the Bimmer. For the first 3 years, BMW will basically cover all maintenance. I took a look at the recommended service schedule and charges that would apply after that. I almost had a heart attack. Now I know why there are so many 3 year old BMWs dumped on the market once the warranty expires. Talk about "high maintenance".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Well, I think the guy is a tard, but I agree with the two sentence summary of the article. The spec B is WAY overpriced, and doesn't fare well in a dollar for dollar comparison. I find it odd. When the 2.5 GT was around and you could get all the power of the spec B for about 25k, you couldn't bribe someone to review it. So they make the spec B, and everyone and their mother reviews it and bitches about the price. As far as what a subie should be, the guy just doesn't get it. The birkenstock wearing SOBs that beat their little subies into the ground for 12 years are not the kind of customer you make much profit off of, and subie is trying to get the hell away from them just like volvo did. Notice they try to keep the GLBT crowd around as they tend to have higher disposable incomes and cycle through new purchases faster. I have seen a lot more legacy/OB/WRXs amongst the gearheads I know of late. Also a good demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonwacker Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Wow, all of his reviews are priceless. A few of my favorites: 2005 Subaru Outback 3.0R L.L. Bean Edition Wagon: "I am a big fan of Subaru generally, and this Eddie Bauer Edition Outback Wagon in particular." Does Ford know that Subaru is making Eddie Bauer cars? And go figure about the fact that he likes the 3.0R so much, given his distaste for the Spec.B. Lexus GS430 and IS350: "The IS 350 is turbocharged," followed by "The IS a front-drive car." Given that he says he reviewed both cars in the snow (where he said they were awful), you'd think he would notice that the IS is RWD... 2002 Saab 9-5 Linear 2.3t: "It’s tough to understand what is going on at Saab, because there has been a proliferation of new names, like this Linear. Many, many people asked what the Linear stood for or what it meant, and the best I can understand is a new type of turbo." They're called "trim lines." Perhaps you should look at the Saab website? '06 BMW 525xi: "Now, I have often said, and I firmly believe, that BMWs are the ultimate driving experience." That couldn't possibly be due to BMW's insistence that BMW is the "ultimate driving machine," could it? 2005 Audi A6 3.2 Quattro AT6: "Now, Audi is related to Volkswagen, not quite in the same way as Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, but there is some sharing going on." Maybe I just don't understand how Audi/VW works, but I always thought Golf/Jetta=TT/A3, Passat=A4, Phaeton=A8 (no clue where the A6 falls in here). Oh, Jeff gRundles, you are so silly. Thank you for the entertainment. Cheers, ~Zach sorry...this forum practically blows goat nuts so im not always on here.Team Pony Express POSTED FROM MY COMPUTER USING A WEB BROWSER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJim Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Uh uh. You're basing the value of the car on the doodads that come in it & select features. He's basing the value on the car's performance as a whole. Sure it's fast & AWD, but that's all it is. I imagine for the same reason there are so many Japanese & American cars for sale. There is no mass exodus from German cars at 3 yrs any more than any other brand. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, as I'm a little behind on this thread. But I always figured that there were so damn many 3 yr old CPO cars out there because that's when a lot of cars come off lease. Sure, once you're out of warranty things get more expensive, but I suspect that the majority of those who buy a car tend to keep it a little longer than 3 years, where those who lease, well, 3 years and it's time for a new one. - Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaWolverine Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 And you're nuts if you think that BMWs are leased just as much as any other American and Japanese brand. They're leased much more than most others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfxdave99 Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 And you're nuts if you think that BMWs are leased just as much as any other American and Japanese brand. They're leased much more than most others. Well its pretty simple, cars that have better residual value have cheaper lease payments and get leased more. If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBIVALENCE Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 hmmmmm. i love his attitude tho. i love reading the "readers response" section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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