NovaWolverine Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Well its pretty simple, cars that have better residual value have cheaper lease payments and get leased more. A lot of people just feel better about themselves if they're driving something new every few yrs, and many of those types want to be driving something like a BMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmdesigns Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 None of those European cars can hold a candle to Subaru's reliability. I have friends with all of those cars and especially the Audis and VWs seem to spend half their life in the shop. BMWs are slightly better but be ready to take out a 2nd mortgage when any serious work or parts are required. When they work, they are great cars, but..... To me, it defeats the whole purpose to pay extra for a "premium" vehicle and then have to pay again and again to keep the damn thing on the road. Maybe I paid a premium for my Subaru, but to me its well worth it to have car that never sees the inside of a shop unless it is for regular maintenance. All 4 of the Subarus I have owned have been well worth the price. Those are the VERY reasons I won't buy BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, or VW. Subaru may NOT have the "heritage" of those brands, but since buying my 06 LGT after owning a 01 Outback for 5 years, Subaru has my respect. Both cars have been rock solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA SUUB Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=884594#post884594 From the pre-purchase forum. Note comments on Audis/European cars: Actually, I own a 2007 Sub Legacy GT Sedan and it has controls on the steering wheel, but they are for tiptronic like shifting NOT audio. It's the same on Spec B...not for audio. I am very pleased with my purchase. I've been driving it for about 2 weeks and ordered it with all the bells and whistles, including the VDC (variable drive control) which comes with Navigation, remote starter and satellite radio. The additional upgrades in 2007 already mentioned (all back seats fold down, MP3 plug in and SI for turbo control/fuel efficiency) are really nice. It drives great and I am also coming from an Audi A4 Quattro - although mine was 1997. I made a decision to go with Subaru based on desire for AWD, nice sedan with all features with A LOT better reliability than Audi. I wouldn't have kept mine for as long as I did (4 1/2 yrs) except that I bought a Wynn's after market warranty with it and probably paid for it 2 - 3 times, even though it cost $1800! I think Subaru is truly competing with those entry level European sedans and they have a lot more experience in AWD than Volvo and BMW, which is why I eliminated them in my analysis. A similar Audi to a fully loaded Subaru would cost $10-$15k more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 hmmmmm. i love his attitude tho. i love reading the "readers response" section :lol: Just saw that :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 The review points out some of Subaru's preception problems. I had the money for any of those cars the guy listed but Subaru came out on top as reliability is the name of the game in transportation IMHO. The AWD system is a world beater, turbo boxer sublime and handling right up there with the best. A Volvo???? Yeah, right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA SUUB Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I think what is surprising to many, is that they have a mistaken perception that people who got LGTs did so because they couldnt afford Audis, BMWs etc. Many of the members on this site chose the LGT even after having enough money for the other cars for precisely the reasons you listed. That is what's so funny. That asshat reviewer still thinks that people who buy subarus are limited to crunchy people from VT who wear birkenstocks Agreed. I looked very seriously at the 325xi touring and was perfectly capable and prepared to purchase it if I had concluded that it was what I wanted. As I stated earlier, the LGT's overall performance was better and I thought it was better bang for the buck as well. I was also put off by how much smaller the Bimmer's storage capacity was - almost the same with the seat down as the Subie's with the seat up! What clinched it for me was predicted reliability and maintenance costs - my 3 previous Subies have been flawless. Ironically my sales person previously worked at a Subaru dealership and once we started getting into comparing the technical merits of the vehicles, his approach became more focused on the "prestige" and "image" of the Bimmer and the overall "feel good" one would get from driving "the ultimate driving machine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legandrex Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 At 35 large the spec b is pretty pricey. Would I drive a S60 2.5 over it at that price hell no, but a 20,000 mile 04 or 05 S4 go for about the same coin and that decision would be pretty easy for me to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 His review of the EVO is even worse: 2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR And now for the disaster. When they told me they were bringing me a Mitsubishi Lancer, I looked it up online and figured was the modest sedan in the Mitsubishi line that sells for $14,599-$18,999. Mid-range. I didn’t have many expectations. After all, as an economy priced car, how good did it have to be? Well, come to find out that the Evolution model is one of those cars intended for the Fast & Furious and 2Fast & 2Furious set, those younger people who race around. If you just looked at the price sheet, you be very impressed with this car, but all impressions on the good side end the moment you actually drive the car. I guess what they did was take the standard Lancer and put a turbocharged, 2.0-liter I4 engine in it with 286 hp. Yeah, it’s fast, but man is it cheap. And they want $36,894. What? Going back to my grandmother’s admonition, the least said the better. This is really a $14,000 car -- and one of the worst on the market in that class -- with a tricked out engine. It is uncomfortable, it rattles like a bag of bolts, it is cheaply made, it is noisy. I think this is an IQ test: if you buy this car, and pay the price they ask on the sticker, or anywhere near that price, you fail the IQ test. RATING: NO WHEELS (OUT OF FOUR). Seriously, how did this guy get hired??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 You guys need to take a breath & relax. The guy doesn't affirm your car choice & you call him names & question his integrity? C'mon, have a spine. About the handling he's spot on - my old grand cherokee would corner better than a stock LGT. Certainly better than the OBXT. Either car with that kind of power needs to have handling/brakes to match, it's irresponsible not to. In theory the subaru is going to be less maintainance & more reliable over time but to claim that Audi/VW/BMW spend half their time in the shop is a gross misrepresentation. Each of those cars will be more maintainance-intensive & a bit pricier b/c they're all higher build quality & well, German. The payoff is that they simply drive better than any Subie ever will. But you make it sound like it's a crapshoot whether or not any of those cars will start in the morning - that's just stupid. Their reliability is as good as any out there. And don't get started with the "my Girlfriend's brother's neighbor had an Audi that did this..." Seriously, if it were even remotely like you say all those companies would be out of biz. Hey, here's a theory - Probably a safe bet that each of you will spend more on modding your Subie than you'd ever spend maintaining/repairing a car that didn't need any mods. (Me included). I've enjoyed my Subaru. It's a good car. The problem I have with it is I can't drive it w/o thinking about what I should do to change/improve it. The way it drives/handles/feels just lacks something that no amount of modding seem to fix. When I drive a better car I don't think about that at all. To me, it reminds me of buying nice furniture from Target. It'll look good from the outside, the price will be unbeatable, it'll last & I can pawn it off on a college kid in ten years for a decent return. But it's just not the same build quality & feel as what I'd get from someone who spends his time making the best couches he can. The quality under the skin just ain't the same. The point the reviewer makes is that for the price there's higher quality options out there. I wish I'd paid attn to stuff like that before I bought the thing. As is I've mostly resolved to make the best of it for a few more years until it's paid off. Boulderguy, I have quite a bit of experience with VW/Audi products. Spend some time on an Audi board and get back to me on the "my sister's friend had an Audi that did..." thing. Also, look at where Audi, VW and MB sit in Consumer Reports latest reliability ratings. I fully agree that an Audi, BMW or Volvo somehow feel higher in quality. The doors close nicely. The interior pieces feel more solid, etc. but what does that translate to? Actual higher quality as in longer life and less repair? Not that I can see. Are these cars safer? Again, not that I can see. I agree that I wish my LGT handled better but that's, hopefully, soon to be remedied when I get my Bilsteins and springs installed. I miss certain aspects of my A4 but the car was such a pain in the ass that I doubt I'd ever go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiablo Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Good reviewers should be open-minded. This jerk's review is limited by his own previous perceptions which offer zero value. Not saying I would neccesarily spend 35k on a Legacy but I can tell you that I would not buy a Volvo if I had more money as he believes to be true in his ultimate wisdom. My VB Garage... Pumping the air back into despair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaWolverine Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 The EVO MR review.....had me laughing hysterically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 About the handling he's spot on - my old grand cherokee would corner better than a stock LGT. Not physically possible. You might feel you're more stabile but COG comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Not physically possible. You might feel you're more stabile but COG comes into play. Not to mention the live axles on both ends. I've driven Grand Cherokees. I was pretty horrified by the handling. The LGT needs help but c'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 ^ +1 The handling on a Cherokee is frickin' horrid. In fact it's so bad that you can't really use the term "handling". "Steering management" might be a better description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkl303 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I wonder what are his thoughts are on the Z and a lotus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I agree 100% with everthing in this article except this and I suppose you could describe the remaining given audience as those men who favor Birkenstock shoes and gorp dunno what gorp and birkenstock is?????? He made some very valid points. The 2007 Legacy GT 5mt is now selling for a little over 25k. Why? because they are not selling at 28/29k. Subaru finally realized that they are not gonna win against 30k BMW's and audi's. I suspect that there will be a ton of left over 2007 spec B's, just like there are a ton of left over 06's. Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 ^ You just gotta know when to strike. I purposely went on the lookout for the "ugly duckling". Much better bargaining power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 ^^ you made out like a bandate waiting!! The only 06 spec b's around here are still goin gfor 30k + Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 ^ Yep. Subaru is vastly underappreciated in the general car market. The Spec.B is SOA's attempt to go upscale and they mostly succeeded IMHO. To get similar performance and features in an Audi, Volvo, Infiniti or Lexus you're looking at easily $10k more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 performance? yes. Features? HELL NO!!! a base audi has better features than a fully loaded spec B (minus nav) Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 ^ That's right, "minus nav"and its slower than the Spec.B, its AWD sytem inferior and it loves to spend expensive time in the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I'm talking interior quality though Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlrtime Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I don't agree on the overall rating or tone of the review however I agree with some of it. I think I got my LTD 5EAT Wagon for a deal at $27k. None of the cars listed sell new for this price. If the LGT were closer to 35k there is no way I'd be driving a Subaru today. Other cars I was looking at were a 320E Wagon, a 325ix Wagon and the a4 avant. I was prepared to spend 40k+ but the 250HP+AWD at sub a 30k price won me over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I'm talking interior quality though meh. The brick red seats are sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkl303 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Interior wise it isn't real leather if its like my b5 A4(all pleather) vs the LGT which does have some real leather i hear(and I think I can feel), but the styling was better in my opinion as the wood trim in ours just doesn't really work for me. I also liked the shape of the seats more and for some reason I really prefer the audi steering wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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