Jedi Pimp Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I think one of the big problems is Subaru is being streched many ways in the USDM market and suffering an identity crisis. There are the enthusiasts like us who want an "Audi" like upscale performance car with many different options available, there is the traditional Subaru buyer who is looking for reliable dependable transportation and shudders at the thought of a $30K pricetag for a Subaru, and there is the younger buyer interested in all out performance. I believe Subaru should rebadge a FWD economy Toyota model to be the entry level vehicle in the lineup. They should make an STI version of each car and they should also at the same time concentrate on putting advertising weight behind the more expensive models and allow more options and combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I bought that car off of Reza because there were absolutely no GRP's left on this side of the Mississippi meeting my specs. GRP and OBP were the only color LGT I would consider and the low price Reza offered was icing on the cake. I shipped the car across the country myself becuase its what I wanted. It's not like he needed to get rid of it so bad that he shipped it himself. So in this case, the color selection (among other things) was worth the $1,300 premium I paid to get it here. Facts > Fiction I actually know Reza very well and we have discussed the issue of GRP and red cars in general. His exact words were: "People don't buy red cars". This coming from the #1 volume Subaru salesman in the nation. I think he knows what he is talking about. You got a great deal on a very nice car, but it is because it didn't move here. FACT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Here is what I just sent in... To Whom It May Concern, As a 2005 Legacy GT Limited Wagon 5speed owner, I am writing to voice my dismay that the Manual Transmission Legacy Wagon was discontinued in the United States. In a year or so, I will be looking to purchase a new car, and it will be another high-performance, manual transmission, AWD, wagon. Due to SOA’s decisions, sadly it will not be a Subaru. The Outback XT is offered in manual transmission, but I do not need, or want the added ride height and corresponding suspension softness. What is even more remarkable, since I presume this was a financial decision based on too few sales in the U.S., is that SIA continues to ship manual transmission Legacy GT wagons to Canada. This means that the Legacy production line still creates them, they just don’t ship them within the USDM. I know that I and many others on http://www.legacygt.com would be willing to pay a premium for a manual transmission in a wagon, especially a Spec B wagon. Make them too order, and charge a premium for it, but please make them. If not, it looks like you are sending Audi or Volvo a new owner soon. Thanks, Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 because it's jacked up and most buyers think of it as an SUV alternative. BINGO! That was a neat little marketing slight of hand by SOA. SUV's = HOT. Wagons = NOT. What can we do to make people believe that one of our wagons is an SUV? I got it! Let's raise it up and slap some plastic cladding on the side! Amazingly plenty of people believed it. That folks is some marketing. SOA definately ain't great at it, but they do have their moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 BINGO! That was a neat little marketing slight of hand by SOA. SUV's = HOT. Wagons = NOT. What can we do to make people believe that one of our wagons is an SUV? I got it! Let's raise it up and slap some plastic cladding on the side! Amazingly plenty of people believed it. That folks is some marketing. SOA definately ain't great at it, but they do have their moments. If only they did not make them "light trucks" and didn't insert these stupid spacers, so it could be converted to Legacy easily. Also unfortunately, the body cladding is mounted to extra holes in the metal sheet - different part #s for panels and doors (I checked) unfortunatelly. Boostjunkie - remember it's not just marketing. Most dealers do not stock Legacies. So an undecided buyer who has not done his homework will not have a chance to compare a Legacy back to back to an Outback. So they leave the lot with the Outback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Boostjunkie - remember it's not just marketing. Most dealers do not stock Legacies. So an undecided buyer who has not done his homework will not have a chance to compare a Legacy back to back to an Outback. So they leave the lot with the Outback. I agree with you on that one, but if the outcome of the trip to the dealer is that the customer leaves with an Outback... I don't think there is anything wrong with that in SOA's eyes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I agree with you on that one, but if the outcome of the trip to the dealer is that the customer leaves with an Outback... I don't think there is anything wrong with that in SOA's eyes! Assuming beancounter mentality yes. But as overall brand perception - no! SOA lacks long term strategy for their brand identity. I am sure there are customers who after driving an Outback - say, hell, no - this thing has lethal suspension I rather go to Audi or VW quick. First Subbie I ever test drove was 05 Outback 2.5i MT - I was so displeased and disappointed I almost assumed Legacy cannot be that much better. Luckily I found my GT. But I made an extra effort to get it. Not everyone would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 fender flares = more room for 255's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 fender flares = more room for 255's! Nope. These are slap-on plastic clad pieces. Not a mm more room for tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Nope. These are slap-on plastic clad pieces. Not a mm more room for tires. and you can't run wider tires why? on an LGT, you have a finite space between the fender and strut. On an OBXT, that's almost a moot point if you don't lower the car. The tire will never be 'tucked' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 When I bought my Outback, there were lots of Legacies on the lot and even a few turbos. Over the last couple of years, I have seen that change to and remain mostly Imprezas and Foresters, with very few Legacies or anything above the base Outback. In the last year I have not seen one Legacy GT or Outback XT on the lot when I go for my oil changes except one Legacy GT manual sedan (non-LTD) that was sold. Marketing isn't just advertising, so this move is exactly what marketing is all about; marketing the right product to the right people. Sadly, there are far more people who are buying Foresters and Imprezas in my area than Legacies or Outbacks. Yes, part of this is due to the lack of advertising for them, but from the dealer's perspective they have to advertise what sells the most. It seems wonky, but if that is where your customer base is, that's where you go. Not true! A well estabilished and popular product (say Impreza or Outback) does not need that much advertising - just enough to sustain it on the market. An excellent and underrated product (e.g Legacy) needs more advertisement effort to get it moving. Subaru had excellent idea to go after low-end Audi/BMWs with 05+ Legacy. They decided to give up on that piece of the market. Given excess production capacity at Indiana this is really silly and someone's head at SOA should roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 First Subbie I ever test drove was 05 Outback 2.5i MT - I was so displeased and disappointed I almost assumed Legacy cannot be that much better. Luckily I found my GT. But I made an extra effort to get it. Not everyone would. My wife did the exact same thing (although experienced my 2004 WRX). She returned the 05 Outback 2.5i MT 5 mins into test drive. She said to the salespeople it reminds me of something my mother would buy and this is my first new car purchase in 10 years. They handed her keys to LGT Wagon albiet auto and she drove it home to show me and said I want it. Thankfully it was a reasonable $24k for LGT manual unlimited wagon. My wife is very far from car enthusiast but every once in a while states I love driving this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 My wife did the exact same thing (although experienced my 2004 WRX). She returned the 05 Outback 2.5i MT 5 mins into test drive. She said to the salespeople it reminds me of something my mother would buy and this is my first new car purchase in 10 years. They handed her keys to LGT Wagon albiet auto and she drove it home to show me and said I want it. Thankfully it was a reasonable $24k for LGT manual unlimited. rjundi - please contact SOA and tell them about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I would like to warn people against a mass email campaign to SOA. They see a flood of complaint emails and generally assume that there is gang online somewhere and the leader has told everyone to write an email so that the leader can have what he wants. The emails quickly lose power and their meaning. C'mon. I am not a gang or sect leader Sure, we here at legacygt.com are kind a sect of some weirdos that waste time talking about their (family) cars. Anyway if you use your real name in your comment to SOA and your name appears in their database as a Subaru owner - I think such a voice should matter a lot to them. In fact, I will post request on nasioc to complain to SOA about Legacy Wagon (not only 5mt - wagon may disappear completely in MY2008). This should be an important group for SOA because Impreza->Legacy seems to be natural upgrade path for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKB_SATX Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I would like to warn people against a mass email campaign to SOA. They see a flood of complaint emails and generally assume that there is gang online somewhere and the leader has told everyone to write an email so that the leader can have what he wants. The emails quickly lose power and their meaning. Well, I don't honestly think it'll make any difference to them. If they cared about providing a product WE would buy, they wouldn't have discontinued the MT GT Wagon for the US market in the first place. We're the proverbial drop in the bucket. It's nice for now, I'll enjoy the hell out of my Legacy for a few more years and then buy something else if Subaru doesn't offer a suitable replacement. I've already expressed my displeasure to them in writing, around a year ago when we learned that the '06 GT Wagon would be slushbox-only. I'll certainly do it again if I find there isn't a Subaru for me when new-car time comes back around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 this industry is top down, not bottom up. you are trying to get a supertanker to change course by hanging over the bow and dogpaddling on the starboard side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Import a Subie LGT MT wagon from Canada. They meet all emmission standards as the laws of the two countries are fully harmonized in that regard. Unfortunately however, exchange rate fluctuations in the last few years have played havoc with the asking price in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Are cars are several thousand dollars more in Canada, that's why many Canadians are posting about importing cars from the states. That would get expensive for the Americans. As I wrote, currency fluctuations have played havoc with the asking price in Canada. How much is a MT LGT wagon worth to those who want one over an AT equipped one? MT trannies are much more fun than ATs, IMHO, but at what point does price cause demand destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallysquirrel Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Look at the price differnece between the outback and the legacy wagon itself. Why would you want to sell a legacy wagon when you can make that much more on a generally more appealing car, the outback? I've been a wagon owner for the last 10 years '99 Camry wagon (discontinued) '97 Legacy Outback, 03 Rex wagon. I went the route of sedan because there was no specB wagon. Wife has a Forester so I didn't need a wagon for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I knew I'd catch heat for my post. You guys can kill me all you want, but I think I stated some very obvious facts. The US market doesn't buy wagons. BJ, everyone is welcome to their opinion, and yours is more welcome than most! However, the US market buys quite a few wagons more than what you've listed. One of which is analogous to the LGT. Check out some Dodge enthusiast websites and listen to them rant (the way we rant) about the lack of MT in the Magnum. Yes, the Charger outsells the Magnum. But the Magnum sells over 50k units per year in the US. That's almost half the total sales of SOA. They also sell out their "enthusiast" SRT8 version every year. Heck, I'd be considering it myself if it had a MT! Wagons are an important niche in the US, and growing as folks shift away from SUVs. The perception that wagons are unwanted is outdated. And while I disagree with those who say that the OB has poor handling, I readily agree that it is not as good as the Legacy. If SOA is going to keep people out of "cross-over SUVs" and into a Subaru, it is going to be with better handling, and the OB is only a bit better than the crossovers. The LGT is considerably better. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I do agree that wagons are gradually biting into the sales of SUV, but the fact of the matter is that if you added up the sales of all wagon from all brands and compared them to the total sales of all SUV from all brands it wouldn't even be close. I would guess easily 20 to 1, maybe more. I personally like wagons alot, so I'm not expressing my personal sentiments when I say the US market doesn't buy wagons. However the numbers don't lie. I just googled some sales stats and found BMW's sales from the first 8 months of 2005 for the 3 series. I think it's a decent example of the split between wagons and sedans. 45,451 sedans to 1882 wagons! And if I were to guess, I'd say that less than 20% of those wagons sold had manual transmissions. That would be less than 400 MT wagons, out of over 47000 cars sold. During that same time that 1882 3 series wagons were sold, BMW sold 20926 X3 SUV's. So more than 11 to 1 SUV's over wagons. Like I said the numbers don't lie, and I would think that the split between wagons and SUV would be even more dramatic with a better selling SUV. I think even BMW would admit that the X3 hasn't been quite the success they envisioned. I think it's great that the Magnum has been so successful, but I think it represents an exception rather than the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Rebo Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Nearly all euro brands sell wagons with manuals right here in the USA: BMW, Volvo, Audi, VW. I believe MB is the only exception. The problem is (at least with Audi), the wagons are very difficult to find. We bought a 2006 A4 Avant. It was more or less a base model with a few options added. However, not a single one was available with HIDs, the tech, premium, or sport package, etc. That's just lame. A $36,000 "base model" A4 Avant doesn't have HIDs or even a fully-functional MFA/MFD (the red LED display that shows you trip info, time, temp, etc.) Most VWs that are $10k less have a fully-functional MFA/MFD. It sucks that one cannot order a specific model/trim level/transmission/engine as they can in Europe and perhaps Japan. They likely pay extra for it. I certainly wouldn't mind paying a bit extra if it gets me exactly what I want. That's pure profit for the dealer right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Improving CAFE standards would lead to more wagons on the road. Including SUVs in the efficiencies they are currently omitted from will force OEM to make wagons to satisfy hauling/room demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atroz Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 HI, Just wanted to mention to all the US folks that are upset that the LGT is only available in AT there. Did you know in Canada that you can't get a WRX in Auto this year? You can in the US. I guess like MT LGTs in the US, AT WRX's weren't selling in Canada. Unfortunately for me I need an AT due to a injuries from an accident (not my fault). I currently have a 02 MT WRX. I'd be quite happy with a 07 AT WRX (well, I don't want to go AT, but I have to), but I can't get one. The next best choice is the LGT. Prices: If they sold an AT WRX, it would be about $35,800 CDN. Instead, I have to go with the LGT AT at $43,295. Yes, the LGT is a better car in many ways, but it's more than I need and for $7500 more! I'm looking at the LGT because I like my Subaru, and there's no other decent AWD, AT, Wagon with about 250HP for any less. I'm looking at $47K+ for the competition (Audi, BMW, Volvo). Just to replace my $35K WRX because I need a AT. Oh, and to make matters worse, the trade in value on my WRX is about $15k. After taxes, I'm looking at about $35K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 The perception that wagons are unwanted is outdated. Yes, I believe so. SUV mania will fade out. Subaru has been making wagons (also manuals) thru all these years, where almost noone else was making wagons. Now they are late to the SUV party with the ugly Tribeca and they drop real wagons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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