Codean Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 No. Frankly, I don't see how the LGT would be better with 6MT unless it had a significantly taller highway gear. Shorter 1st, 2nd, 3rd is pointless IMHO. 1st and 2nd go by so fast in an LGT as it is. --Lee Well, at 60mph my tach reads 2200rpm on my 07 spec B in 6th gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymesbry Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 That spec B suspension is all worth it.. i love those bilsteins.. and get some JDM pinks.. oh my.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeddr7 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Car and driver made the LGT outhandle the spec B for about $2500. Thay put on tires and the tein flex coilovers with the electronic adjutment. I went for the LGT, I also like the fact it comes with the Si-drive as well. Who needs tickets to the gun show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spheno_3SXZERO Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 NAV works great for me. What are its shortcomings in your eyes? Newb Here, looking at a possible purchace of an '07 Spec B. When I looked at the '07 Spec B... in reguards to to the Navi, I guess I could describe it as pretty basic. It is about the most bare bones Navi version I've seen. Depending on each individual's preference, that can be a good thing, or an annoyance. I didn't care for the Navi much because I was comparing it to Acura's Navi in the '07 TL Type-S which is the other car I am considering... That's all I really have to say about the Subaru Navi, the car on the other hand is great for what it is built for and is a pretty sexy car I'd have to say. And as far as the 6Sp goes, I was told by the stealership that the version of the 6sp vs the '06 5sp was the way the tranny sits and the way the gears mesh under higher horsepower. What I was told ( wether it be true or not IDK, never owned a Subaru...yet ) is that the 5 sp sits inline or laterally to the car. Adding more horsepower eventually pulls the teeth in the tranny apart causing them to break, however in the '07 6sp, the tranny sits horizontally and resists the pulling apart of the gears better than the 5sp. That's the gist of the difference in the trannies from the words of the stealership. So I joined this forum to try and learn as much as I could about the Legacy before I jumped in with my decision over the '07 TL-S. If I'm wrong, please verbally assult me or something. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Hi, been away for a while good to hear a bit of discussion about this question. The only reason I said anything about a ES350 (lexus) was not to say its the same car as a Spec.B. Rather I wanted to point out that there are different levels of quality between cars like a Camry or a ES350. Or even you can say there is a Hyundai with the same specs (near) and the same features as a Lexus ES350 and you could say look the Hyundai costs half the price for the same size engine and same features. But you should not just look at the size/features of a car. Thats all I was ointing out. Like I know the 330i costs more than the Spec.B even without AWD, but there is more to a car than size and features, that make many people pay more for a BMW than I subi. I believe BMW sells more cars in the US than Subi and I'm sure Lexus sells several times as many cars as Subi even tho they charge a lot more. Note: I am not saying Subi is not a bad car, but it's not on the same luxury level and interior materials as the Lexus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBram58 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Hi, been away for a while good to hear a bit of discussion about this question. The only reason I said anything about a ES350 (lexus) was not to say its the same car as a Spec.B. Rather I wanted to point out that there are different levels of quality between cars like a Camry or a ES350. Or even you can say there is a Hyundai with the same specs (near) and the same features as a Lexus ES350 and you could say look the Hyundai costs half the price for the same size engine and same features. But you should not just look at the size/features of a car. Thats all I was ointing out. Like I know the 330i costs more than the Spec.B even without AWD, but there is more to a car than size and features, that make many people pay more for a BMW than I subi. I believe BMW sells more cars in the US than Subi and I'm sure Lexus sells several times as many cars as Subi even tho they charge a lot more. Note: I am not saying Subi is not a bad car, but it's not on the same luxury level and interior materials as the Lexus. I agree with your points. In my case I had a Lexus ES300 for 7 years and traded for my Spec B. For a while I actually considered buying the 2007 ES 350, then I thought about the Lexus IS 350. What turned me on to the Spec B was the fact that I always enjoyed driving my wife's Forrester XT so much more than my Lexus. When I looked into the Legacy I knew that would be my next car. For me, at this time, I put more emphasis on driving enjoyment, than on the cache of a Lexus brand and/or the improved interior comfort and luxury of the Lexus versus Subaru. There is no doubt Lexus makes fantastic cars, but so does Subaru - it's just a different focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 I have not decided yet about the Spec.B or LGT. either car has a lot going for it. If only the Spec.B was more like a STI, that is more power (easy to fix), 6-speed, Suspension upgrades. But leave off some of the fluff like sunroof, nav, and then maybe lower the price. Or even make a LGT with a 6-MT (to handle a bit more power) would be a good car for me. I just think the LGT is best b/c it's so cheap, but the Spec.B adds on so much gingerbread. Its a hard decision, I like a few Spec.B features, but don't care for a Nav so why do I have to pay $2500 extra for that? Especially if the nav is not up to the class leading. Maybe I can wait for the 08 spec.B to see if they have a different spin on it. Also worth a ponder is the STi costs less than the Spec.B and I can get it w/o a sunroof and w/o a nav. Has 6-MT and a lot more power. But then the STi does not have the side curtain airbags, the Ipod input and some other nice features. Again maybe the 08 STi will use more Legacy features that I am looking for. I want a cross b/t a STi and a Spec.B In other words I'd love a Legacy STi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBram58 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I have not decided yet about the Spec.B or LGT. either car has a lot going for it. If only the Spec.B was more like a STI, that is more power (easy to fix), 6-speed, Suspension upgrades. But leave off some of the fluff like sunroof, nav, and then maybe lower the price. Or even make a LGT with a 6-MT (to handle a bit more power) would be a good car for me. I just think the LGT is best b/c it's so cheap, but the Spec.B adds on so much gingerbread. Its a hard decision, I like a few Spec.B features, but don't care for a Nav so why do I have to pay $2500 extra for that? Especially if the nav is not up to the class leading. Maybe I can wait for the 08 spec.B to see if they have a different spin on it. Also worth a ponder is the STi costs less than the Spec.B and I can get it w/o a sunroof and w/o a nav. Has 6-MT and a lot more power. But then the STi does not have the side curtain airbags, the Ipod input and some other nice features. Again maybe the 08 STi will use more Legacy features that I am looking for. I want a cross b/t a STi and a Spec.B In other words I'd love a Legacy STi There isn't a huge difference in price between the STi and the Spec B - pretty comparable actually. It comes down to what you are looking for. The Sti is a stripped down high performance racer - the Spec B is a little more refined, with some creature comforts - but still has great performance. Seems like the LGT might be more in line for what you are looking for though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codean Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 And as far as the 6Sp goes, I was told by the stealership that the version of the 6sp vs the '06 5sp was the way the tranny sits and the way the gears mesh under higher horsepower. What I was told ( wether it be true or not IDK, never owned a Subaru...yet ) is that the 5 sp sits inline or laterally to the car. Adding more horsepower eventually pulls the teeth in the tranny apart causing them to break, however in the '07 6sp, the tranny sits horizontally and resists the pulling apart of the gears better than the 5sp. Thanks. Eh... not reallly true. The 6 speed and 5 speed both sit in the vehicle the same way, the case design is where the difference is. The 5 speed's transmission case splits in half from back to front, where as the 6 speed's case is stacked, kind of like a loaf of sliced bread. The gears in the 6 speed are much thicker and can take much more stress. Another advantage is you can use any clutch made for the STi. The whole gears pulling away from each other thing is just a rumor. Sure the case has some effect, but it's mostly just a weak gear issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted October 21, 2006 Author Share Posted October 21, 2006 If the only reason to buy the SpecB is for the 6MT, would that be worth it? I believe that would be a lot for a tranny no matter how good it is. However the Spec.B does have the nicer suspension we all think is worth something not to mention nicer wheels and nicer leather. I just have a problem with is the Nav which I think is overpriced. I have a Nav in my Sienna and it's OK but frankly like OP said you can get a portable nav for less and move it from car to car. Also (I think) some Honda charge like $1500 or $1800 for a nav. I know Subi will claim they are also giving stability control and traction control with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted October 21, 2006 Author Share Posted October 21, 2006 For me, at this time, I put more emphasis on driving enjoyment, than on the cache of a Lexus brand and/or the improved interior comfort and luxury of the Lexus versus Subaru. There is no doubt Lexus makes fantastic cars, but so does Subaru - it's just a different focus. I agree, I don't care what other people think of my car, and in fact Subi projects a good image for me, like people won't think it's so nice of a car (as they would with a Lexus). I don't want people to think I spend super much on a car. I drive a Honda S2000 instead of a Porsche and it works for me. I like Subi a lot. I just think the Impreza is a little young image for me (I'm 41) and also the Impreza has been out longer so it's due for a full make-over I think in 2007 so I don't want to buy the last gasp and then come to find out the new one is so much better. I read the next-gen Impreza will use more parts/platform from the Legacy but modified so it's still a bit smaller than the Legacy. I'm not sure if I want to wait for the 08 Legacy or the 08 STi. But oh well the 07s are still nice cars and probably softer price than either new improved car will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 The NAV is fine especially since it's linked to the ECU. The tranny choice (there are still 06s to be had) is like what a given race team might choose for a given track. Some might choose a 5 speed and some might consider the 6. The 6 is reputed to be more robust than the 5 which in itself is considered very strong. The 6 weighs more and requires an extra shift on the way to 60 but the taller final gear will make great use of boxer torque for cruising. The 07 rear differential is desireable and the little creature comfort evolutions are fun. I prefer the lighter paint on the 06 but that is a highly subjective opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkwon Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 nav and all the options is just gravy. I paid the premium for the 6 spd and the 6 spd only. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 nav and all the options is just gravy. I paid the premium for the 6 spd and the 6 spd only. Ed What advantages do you preceive with a 6MT over a 5MT with the turbo boxer aside from a taller final drive ratio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlQHan Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 In terms of price difference, the spec.B is a steal compared to the LGT. Seats will probably cost 1000 or more, navi is 2500, 6 speed probably costs 2000 or more (based on STi/STI 6 speed take-offs), wheels are probably 1600 or more which totals to 7100. And that's not including SI-Drive isn't available on other models yet IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookem Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 From what I remember of my test drive of a 2005 LGT, the Spec.B in comparison was much more responsive. It was as if the Al suspension parts enabled the Spec. to react more quickly to the road surface giving the car a much more nimble feel. Also, don't forget the Stock LGT you drove had Potenza RE92's and I've yet to speak with anyone that has/had RE92's on any vehicle that had anything good to say. The Spec B has the respectable RE50's. EarlQHan: The SI-Drive comes standard on both the LGT and Spec B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Also, don't forget the Stock LGT you drove had Potenza RE92's and I've yet to speak with anyone that has/had RE92's on any vehicle that had anything good to say. The Spec B has the respectable RE50's. You make a good point about the tires but the sensation was different than just the rubber. The 18" wheels give a different feel as well but it was how the suspension felt faster to react/recover. There is still some body roll but it's minor and I actually kind of like it. I suppose it's a compromise between all out handling and supple touring. Sway bars might be fun but it would stiffen things and make it more jarring on the freeway where I rack up at least 80% of my miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilh Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Yeah, the 18" wheels felt heavier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Maybe I can wait for the 08 spec.B to see if they have a different spin on it. Any indication yet on whether there will be an '08 specB?? I'd kinda doubt it, since the Legacy itself is getting the major refresh for '08. Marketing *shouldn't* need the special model to get people to the showrooms. Tough call on the LGT vs. spec B: I think you're just going to have to decide which makes your heart go pitter-patter more. I've been very happy with the 5MT for 33k miles, but I would be interested in trying the 6MT: not sure it would be worth much $$ to me. Nav I could definitely do without, along with the blue alacantra seats. I'd be most interested in the suspension goodies, myself, and would probably even ditch the wheels for some 17x8's. So I don't think I could bring myself to spend the extra cash since there's more stuff I don't want than there is stuff I like. Especially since you can get that cool new color in the regular LGT! Seek first to understand, then to be understood. In other words: SEARCH before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codean Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 What advantages do you preceive with a 6MT over a 5MT with the turbo boxer aside from a taller final drive ratio? Uhhh, strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Uhhh, strength? The 6MT is considered stronger than the 5MT but the 5MT itself is very robust. Very few failures (are there any?) even with guys running heavy engine mods. Any other things you like about the 6MT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codean Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Nobody has been running high enough HP for long enough to make any real assumptions as to how strong the LGT 5 speed really is. On top of that, the LGT owership numbers are low, and how many of those owner are modifying them and reporting their findings on the web? The 6 speed is not considered stronger... it is a fact. Reasons why its better other then strength: Clutch options shifter feel option to add a trans oil cooler clutch peddel effort But to be fair, I'll counter my own points by saying that the Spec B 6 speed has not proven its self yet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlQHan Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 IIRC the spec.B 6 speed is basically an 07 STI gearbox minus DCCD. These trannies are MUCH stronger than the older Subaru 5 speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codean Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 It hasn't been proven yet that the Spec B 6 speed has a limited slip front differential. Can anyone in a 5 speed LGT go out and give a few RPM readings and specific speeds in each gear? Like: 5th, 60mph, 2500 rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Nobody has been running high enough HP for long enough to make any real assumptions as to how strong the LGT 5 speed really is. On top of that, the LGT owership numbers are low, and how many of those owner are modifying them and reporting their findings on the web? The 6 speed is not considered stronger... it is a fact. Reasons why its better other then strength: Clutch options shifter feel option to add a trans oil cooler clutch peddel effort But to be fair, I'll counter my own points by saying that the Spec B 6 speed has not proven its self yet either. You can add a tranny cooler to any car and it is a good way to go. This site has dozens of modders adding hp. Did you select the 6MT expressly for this purpose? If so, what whp are you aiming for? Some guy says that he has had nothing but success modding engines to handle something like 600 hp with nary a mention about any tranny problems. The 6MT is supposed to be more robust than the 5MT and I believe it. I also believe that Subaru trannies are strong in general. Go to a 300Z na site to see tranny complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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