Flash Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 When I was considering my Spec.B purchase I test drove a 06 325Xi which was priced comparibly with the Spec, at least its base price. Power was definitely down from the Spec and I hated the lag between pressing on the accelerator and the engine actually increasing revs. The brakes were fantastic! Once I added the leather, sport suspension, and other odds and ends (not including NAV) I quickly got in the 39k range. Certainly more than I wanted to spend and remember that was a 325 not a 330. It did include all scheduled maintenance for the original warranty period though that is an oil change at the recommended interval which was much longer than I'd ever go. I was shocked that the base 325 comes with vinyl seats (as does the base 330). My sister's boyfriend works as the parts manager at a BMW dealer in Cincinnati. He says a large number of BMW buyers buy the car stripped of options. The buyers want to be seen driving a BMW but can't afford one nicely equipped. And since noone can tell it's a stripped model from the outside they're all set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 When I was considering my Spec.B purchase I test drove a 06 325Xi which was priced comparibly with the Spec, at least its base price. Power was definitely down from the Spec and I hated the lag between pressing on the accelerator and the engine actually increasing revs. The brakes were fantastic! Once I added the leather, sport suspension, and other odds and ends (not including NAV) I quickly got in the 39k range. Certainly more than I wanted to spend and remember that was a 325 not a 330. It did include all scheduled maintenance for the original warranty period though that is an oil change at the recommended interval which was much longer than I'd ever go. I was shocked that the base 325 comes with vinyl seats (as does the base 330). My sister's boyfriend works as the parts manager at a BMW dealer in Cincinnati. He says a large number of BMW buyers buy the car stripped of options. The buyers want to be seen driving a BMW but can't afford one nicely equipped. And since noone can tell it's a stripped model from the outside they're all set! Very good points. Plus, Subaru has an excellent reputation for reliability that surpasses that of the European cars (nice as they are). The other premium makes like Infiniti and Lexus are also great cars but they don't have Subaru's famous world class AWD. Add in the Spec. B's great suspension and it was a no brainer for me. The only German car I might consider buying is bare bones M3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDevil Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 One thing you have to put into consideration when comparing a Spec B vs other brands in the similar price range (~35K MSRP) is that the Spec B is a fully loaded GT AND more, but the other cars are mostly base model with options yet to be added. I priced the Spec B against its direct competitons and tried to build them as close to a Spec B as possible (as long as the options are available) and here's what I got: Spec B - 35881 IS250 AWD AT - 37550 TSX 6MT - 31300 G35x AT - 39250 328xi 6MT - 39890 A4 2.0T 6MT - 38640 C280 4Matic AT - 40265 There might be an option or 2 missing from the Spec B (mainly HID), but then you also have compromises with other brands (no MT, less HP). As you can see, other than the TSX, which is 40HP less and no AWD, the other competitors are at least 2K more than a Spec B. I'm not sure about other brands, but I think you can do much better than just MSRP on a Subaru from what I have heard, even for a Spec B. Just something to consider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 ^ The Spec.B is a solid car that is reasonably priced. Its competition are those vehicles you listed. However, the Spec. also has world beating AWD and a superb turbo boxer. The other cars are very nice but they don't have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codean Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Umm it dosen't have a R160 rear end anymore I believe. It is a torsen rear end now a brand new unit. Umm I don't think you know what an R160 is. The "new" torsen rear differential is in a R160 case. How do I know this? I looked under my car and saw an R160. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 Good points. I think the point about the Spec.B vs cars like the Infiniti, 3-series, IS350, A4 etc.. is that those cars are up-market brands. It'd be like comparing a Camry to a ES350. Even tho they use some common parts (engine, tranny etc..) the ES350 is a cut above. I think the Subi is a great all around car, but I'm sure the luxury brands bring more to the table. I mean you just can't say a car has this and that features (could be a Hyundai or a Lexus and there is a big difference in price). I did see a Spec.B for $500 over invioce price around $32,700 (or so) this included some dealer installed options like all weather floor mats etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 The ES350 is FWD! Yuck! However, it is a nice car for what it is despite it's performance limitations. For the price, the Spec. offers a lot. That said, Subaru won't make too much of a run at Lexus sales because it is not FWD and not full out bells and whistles but it is solidly in the ranks of the entry level premium cars out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBram58 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Just to add to this point regarding the price comparison - I purchased my '07 Spec B for the invoice price of 32,800. This is many thousands less than any of those comparably equipped cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas751 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 You guys need to stop worrying about how the Subaru Legacy and Spec B are peceived by the public and start enjoying. I went from a BMW 545i (leased for 2 years) to a 2006 Spec B (purchased). The car before was a 2002 530i. I preferred the old BMW to the newer ones. The new ones have poor ergonomics and feel tired if driven in heavy traffic and only come alive at very high speeds that we can never legally drive at here in the USA or Canada. The Legacy and Legacy Spec B are wonderful cars. They are not built to the same quality standards (metal thickness, fit of body panels, weld quality, etc.) as a BMW, but then again the Subaru costs much less. As for the driving experience, I will say that a Legacy is much more fun than a stripped 325i or 325xi. The new 335 may be a different story, but any BMW will cost near $40,000 if you do not want plastic seats and the 330 or 335 will be near to over $50,000. $50,000 is a lot of cash. For that much money, I would buy a Legacy and a used, late 1980's early 1990's air cooled Porsche 911. Then you get the absolute most bang for the buck. I have a 1992 Porsche 911 and it is a blast. As for the Front wheel drive Lexus; sorry, that is a Camry. Camry are good cars, but they are still a Camry; they advertise in Good Housekeeping. The RWD Lexus are nice, but drive them you will quickly see that they are LUXURY cars and not as fun as a Subaru. I never drove a Nissan or Infiiti, I am sure they are nice. The Acurua is a nice car; feels like the old early 1990's Honda Accord before it got wrecked and turned into a fancy Taurus. If you are younger and want a small sporty car, consider the VW GTI. Very fun. Buy the car you like, even if it is a Camry and be happy. Everybody has their own needs and wants, I only expressed my opinion above and it is nothing more than that. -Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirSix Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 The Legacy and Legacy Spec B are wonderful cars. They are not built to the same quality standards (metal thickness, fit of body panels, weld quality, etc.) as a BMW... Hmmm...mostly good points, but you're a bit off on this one. http://www.drivesubaru.com/Sum06_WhatsInside.htm It turns out that the jaws of life can't cut through a Subie... I tell myself that an N/A Forester is just an STI without all the fluff like, power, handling, style, racing heritage, and curb appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slissner Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 After two Audis, both with 4.2 v8 engines, I bought a 2006 spec.B a year ago. Two weeks ago I bought a 2007 spec.B. Both spec.B cars are more enjoyable to drive than either Audi. Of course, the Audi A6 4.2 has superior construction, fit, finish, and amenities. Overall, I have no regret in choosing the spec.B. It's enjoyable and comfortable, unlike an STI, for example, but still plenty quick and nimble. The touchscreen navigation is accurate and easy to use, though there are better systems. My wife's 2007 LLBean Outback feels ponderous in contrast to the spec.B, though it is a superior cruiser to the spec.B because of the six-cylinder engine and overall gearing. The 2007 spec.B's six-speed transmission linkage is smooth, light, and quick unlike the 2006's five-speed linkage. The 2007 uses about 10 percent fewer rpm than the 2006 at the same highway speed. If another manufacturer with good local service and support offered a better car than Subaru offered, I'd buy it because I have no brand loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew888 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Jaws of life...come on man...he is commenting on the overall fit and finish. You concentrated on one area. If it's still not clear, go test drive the new A4. That'll give ya a decent idea. We just traded our 02 Mercedes on an 06 LR3 so I get it, but I'm still jonesn' for a Spec B! [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1586"VbGallery/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 One of the reasons the LGT goes like a scalded cat are the weight savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas751 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Air Six, I know about the ring construction around the doors and the roof. That said, please look at the crap spot welds on the rest of the car. I even have rust on my brand new 2006 Spec B in the flange around the trunk lid were paint did not stick to the welds. The welds are about 4 cm apart. On a VW, Audi or BMW, most of the welds are continuous seams and laser welds. The door panels on my Legacy have a very poor fit with differing gaps ranging from 3mm to 12 mm, and my car and every car on the lot were different from each other. I can stick my finger in the door gaps on the rear doors. Also look at the nasty paint / bondo glue jobs on the panels that you are not supposed to look at, say on the inside of the trunk lid. You would not see this on a European car, ever, and not see that even on a new Grand Am; I can assure you. Like I said, I love this car, better than my 2004 545i that I just turned in. For the price, this car is an absolute blast. It is not built to the same standards as a BMW or Audi, no way, now how. Not even close. It is however lighter which makes it more fun to drive. BTW, the stereo sucks, it is awful. The NAv is terrible, bordering on useless, the windows are painfully slow and the lack of auto up is silly. I love the car anyways. Lets hope that the next version is nicer though. -Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 NAV works great for me. What are its shortcomings in your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KayGT Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 The Spec B is priced at 36,500 at Oasis subaru in Old Bridge NJ.....I started laughing when i saw the price.......but thats not the point....when i go to purchase my Spec B in the spring time i'm going to try and convince the dealership to take out the navigation and equip another legacy with it....that way they can make money on it because i won't ask them for Full price of navigation off my car but something around $500 less.....If you're a convincing persuasive talker i believe it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 The Spec B is priced at 36,500 at Oasis subaru in Old Bridge NJ.....I started laughing when i saw the price.......but thats not the point....when i go to purchase my Spec B in the spring time i'm going to try and convince the dealership to take out the navigation and equip another legacy with it....that way they can make money on it because i won't ask them for Full price of navigation off my car but something around $500 less.....If you're a convincing persuasive talker i believe it can be done. Honestly, I think that's a pretty unlikely request. Integrated NAV systems have hooks into the speedo, ECU, etc. Removing it in one car to reinstall in another is not a trivial task, IMO. I know I sure as heck wouldn't touch a new car that had the dash removed and mucked with - that's a sure bet for squeeks and rattles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosedaddy Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 FWIW, I got my 06 Spec B for about $2K more than a buddy got his 06 LGT. Granted I bought it about 5 months later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas751 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 The nav is horrible. Pretend like you are going to LA. Try to find a list of the hotels near a location in LA before you leave an pick one. Cannot do it. Try to see all the hotels quickly in your area. Cannot do it. You must know the name or at least the city of the POI or you cannot pick it. The maps show POI's bt only if zoomed to 1/4 mile. Again, useless. Try a BMW or Audi Nav or a Garmin. Much better for this. Also the routes are poorly chosen on the Subaru Nav. Lastly, the POI and the roads are 4 years too old. Not good. I would gladly give up the Nav for a cubby hole and a clean dash to place my Garmin. I still love the Spec B, much better overall than my last BMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I would gladly give up the Nav for a cubby hole and a clean dash to place my Garmin. Not me re the NAV. New maps are available, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 FWIW, I got my 06 Spec B for about $2K more than a buddy got his 06 LGT. Granted I bought it about 5 months later... All this means you got probably decent deal, and your friend got shafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirSix Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Jaws of life...come on man...he is commenting on the overall fit and finish. You concentrated on one area. If it's still not clear, go test drive the new A4. That'll give ya a decent idea. We just traded our 02 Mercedes on an 06 LR3 so I get it, but I'm still jonesn' for a Spec B! I understood what he was commenting on, but it is the recurrent theme I find on this forum of the "I settled for the Subaru" that inspired my revisiting of how really well-built (safe/solid) these cars actually are. I'll also understand that the Germans are more than adept at building fine cars. So, I guess in the end, if one wants to pay many thousands more for "fit and finish", so be it. I tell myself that an N/A Forester is just an STI without all the fluff like, power, handling, style, racing heritage, and curb appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior325 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 If the only reason to buy the SpecB is for the 6MT, would that be worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilh Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 No. Frankly, I don't see how the LGT would be better with 6MT unless it had a significantly taller highway gear. Shorter 1st, 2nd, 3rd is pointless IMHO. 1st and 2nd go by so fast in an LGT as it is. --Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 If the only reason to buy the SpecB is for the 6MT, would that be worth it? The tranny is to taste. The LGT doesn't need 6 but it might be handy sometimes or redundant others. The new rear differential is desirable, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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