Max Rebo Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I'm not in Canada...Minnesota (I believe LittleBlue GT and pdw assumed I was in Canada). I appreciate the comments on Tire Rack (I have purchased PIAA products from them in the past and am well aware of their reputation), I just don't want to deal with a "middle man"... . . . Sorry about the obscure analogy...I'm a pharmacist and our profession gives away its advice...there is nothing more irritating than answering a bunch of questions about a prescription you made no money on (one being bought from a Canadian mail order pharmacy, for example), but we do. Canada mail order pharmacies have been a big topic of discussion in the medical and consumer community for the past few years. No problem. I guess we misunderstood one another. I had a bad experience with a particular wheel vendor in the past as well, so I understand what you're dealing with. Hopefully, you can get that prior problem sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 i was thinking of getting some bridgestone x-ice tires later this month, since the reviews of them seemed very good for ice (which fargo had for 3-4 months last year) and they are a reasonable price of about 120 a tire for 215/60/16 If I lived where it was iced for 3-4 months, I would get a studded tire from Nokian or Gislaved. Not as quiet running as the X-Ice, but definitely better traction on ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hello! FYI, I did my researched and thanks to all the inputs here I've decided to go with Dunlop Winter Sport M3, with a set of Kazera KZ-V Silver w/Machined Lip. Just place my order with Tirerack. Including shipping the total came out to $1190.60 (minus taxes, and brokerage). Shipping is thru UPS Standard. According to Tirerack it should arrive in 1 to 1.5 week. For all you Canucks in 2 weeks from now, I’m hoping to post the cost of brokerage and buying experience with Tirerack. My prime reason for choosing Tirerack was mainly from referral of friend's here in Calgary, Alberta. Once again, thanks for all the inputs. This will be my 1st sets of Dunlop, from my research it appears that it will work out well here in Calgary. As the old saying goes “Time will tell..” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I know a lot of you guys don't put much stock in Consumer Reports, but November issue just came today...top 5 winter tires: Goodyear Ultra Grip GW3 Nitto Winter SN1 Continental ContiWinterContact Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 Nokian WR Goodyear's web site does not list any winter 215/45/17. Nitto's web site does not list any winter tires. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I know a lot of you guys don't put much stock in Consumer Reports, but November issue just came today...top 5 winter tires: Goodyear Ultra Grip GW3 Nitto Winter SN1 Continental ContiWinterContact Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 Nokian WR Goodyear's web site does not list any winter 215/45/17. Nitto's web site does not list any winter tires. the problem with consumer reports is that they provide a total evaluation, so that, for example, a crappy performing tire which, for example, has really poor wet traction to the point of being relatively unsafe, can end up being a recommended choice because it is really cheap and is quiet. In other words, performance of the things consumer reports reviews is often diluted by price, longevity, and creature comfort ratings. IMO these things have their place, but for me, I want to know how the performance of a tire stacks up, and have them ranked accordingly, and then I'll decide on my own how much I'm willing to give up on either price or performance to make my choice. With CR, they go with their overall ratings and pretty much ignore specific details, this makes their ratings relatively valueless for many items, like tires. They also don't do the kind of testing that Tirerack does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 They rate snow performance, ice performance, wet performance, dry performance, handling, ride, noise, and hydroplaning separately. Take your pick based on what is more important for you. Granted, I still like Tire Rack's reviews by customers, but it makes me wonder how the same tire can be the best one person has ever experienced and another finds it the worst thing ever. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 They rate snow performance, ice performance, wet performance, dry performance, handling, ride, noise, and hydroplaning separately. Take your pick based on what is more important for you. Granted, I still like Tire Rack's reviews by customers, but it makes me wonder how the same tire can be the best one person has ever experienced and another finds it the worst thing ever. I think the trick is trying to devine what sundry reviewers are able to commuicate. I always bring up the high mileage reviews first on Tire Rack. If you notice, the reviews of the newest lowest mileage tires are almost always sparkling. It's the ones about older tires where the lower reviews generally start showing up. Tires get cooked and suspensions get old. Some buy sizes that totally change handling charateristics from one car to another of the same model. A typical poor review of a tire with 40k miles on it might have the owner of some traction aggressive A/S (my current line of DD) who lives in LA writing that these are the second set of tires he's had on his A4. He doesn't like these ones because they're showing some cupping that his previous tires never had. Well, I deduce that this guy has a suspension with 70-90k miles on it and has driven in heavy summer heat conditions for long periods of times. There are so many little things like that to take into consideration. Inflation pressures or tire size/load rating? Fuggedaboudit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Rebo Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Like Vimy wrote, you sometimes have to weed through reviews on TireRack as well. Take certain summer tires, for instance. There are actually people who posted these tires' winter performance and how dangerous they were. So, in effect, they would not purchase the summer tire again based on its winter performance. Darwin seems to have missed these people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 the problem with consumer reports is that they provide a total evaluation, so that, for example, a crappy performing tire which, for example, has really poor wet traction to the point of being relatively unsafe, can end up being a recommended choice because it is really cheap and is quiet. The truth is CR's last Winter Tires review(Nov 2005) they recommended tires based more than what you state. They had recommendations of specific tires for occasional snow, extreme amounts of snow, and icy areas. I have not seen the new article to see if they carryed this on. Tirerack has no real useful information in the snow just on ice. Its very difficult to compare winter tires on snow since its extremely variable surface as you may know if your a skiier or snowboarder. That being all said I am very glad to see the Nokian WR on the list. My wife had that tire twice and me once and its really a great all-season with incredible winter traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I think the trick is trying to devine what sundry reviewers are able to commuicate. I always bring up the high mileage reviews first on Tire Rack. If you notice, the reviews of the newest lowest mileage tires are almost always sparkling. It's the ones about older tires where the lower reviews generally start showing up. Tires get cooked and suspensions get old. Some buy sizes that totally change handling charateristics from one car to another of the same model. A typical poor review of a tire with 40k miles on it might have the owner of some traction aggressive A/S (my current line of DD) who lives in LA writing that these are the second set of tires he's had on his A4. He doesn't like these ones because they're showing some cupping that his previous tires never had. Well, I deduce that this guy has a suspension with 70-90k miles on it and has driven in heavy summer heat conditions for long periods of times. There are so many little things like that to take into consideration. Inflation pressures or tire size/load rating? Fuggedaboudit. This is a very good point. I usually don't read customer reviews until I've narrowed my choices down to 3 or less tires. I depend on the tirerack testing results. This is also why I don't buy tires that are supposed to last more than about 40k mi, and I usually buy tires that will only last 20 - 30 k. It takes me about 3 years to put that many miles on each of my cars, and a lot can happen to your car in three years. So, I generally get much better performance over the shorter life of my tires than I could get from a 60 k mi tire. Also, Good snow tires don't generally give you more than 20k good winter miles anyway. Finally, very few reviewers have experience with many tires, and their reviews are extremely subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The truth is CR's last Winter Tires review(Nov 2005) they recommended tires based more than what you state. They had recommendations of specific tires for occasional snow, extreme amounts of snow, and icy areas. I have not seen the new article to see if they carryed this on. Tirerack has no real useful information in the snow just on ice. Its very difficult to compare winter tires on snow since its extremely variable surface as you may know if your a skiier or snowboarder. That being all said I am very glad to see the Nokian WR on the list. My wife had that tire twice and me once and its really a great all-season with incredible winter traction. I subscribe to CR, but I admit that I have not read their tire reviews for a few years, so I may be way off base with my opinion. However, the last few times I did pay attention to their reviews, I felt from my other researcht that ALL of the tires they liked best pretty much sucked. Also, based on the way they review (ed) their tires, no summer only tire would have a prayer of a good rating, because they have no snow traction. Obviously, a snow tire review would be different. I'll check it out. Still like the tirerack tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 ..... Also, based on the way they review (ed) their tires, no summer only tire would have a prayer of a good rating, because they have no snow traction. Obviously, a snow tire review would be different. I'll check it out. Still like the tirerack tests. They did do a summer tire test and stated they should not be used on snow/ice but tested them nevertheless there. The Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 came out on top followed by Toyo Proxes T1-S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Abdullah Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Take a look here: www.tire-easy.com I just ordered a set of the Yokohama IceGuard 721's in 225/45/17... Delivered to my door in 4 days for $420. After Thanksgiving I'll have these tires mounted & ready to go. Tariq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03leggt Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 For reviews and ratings try looking at... http://www.consumersearch.com/www/automotive/snow-tires/reviews.html http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=97#passenger http://www.1010tires.com/tirereviews.asp?category=Winter These may be a bit dated. I live in a place that gets snow storms and they don't plow the residential streets. So you go from snow to ice to pavement to snow/ice. I am leaning towards Toyo Observe Go-2 Plus or Toyo Garit HT. APA site says the Go-2 Plus are between aggressive snow/ice tire and ok on pavement with long life tread. I would like to get higher profile tires so need smaller rims. I just don't know how to figure out what is compatible. I may just go to CDN Tire and get the winter steely's with X-ICE tires which seem highly rated. I don't think I need the good Nokians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 If it's not for the alloy rims, in the past I generally pick up my tires at Costco. Other than the long wait for service, I received great pricing, reasonable selections, and excellent warranty. Around here Costco was one of the 1st company to adopt the use of nitrogen instead of air. With some of the unique properties of nitrogen, migrates 3 times slower than air (larger molecules), inert, etc. My experience is that the tires stay longer inflates, and maintain the pressure over a wider temperature range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I surprised more of you don't check out http://www.snowtire.info. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malvic Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 "Morty" at Tire Trends wrote me the following on the Car Talk Canada forum: I would recommend staying with the 215/45R17 on the Legacy GT. We do go a little bigger on the Imprezas, but they have flared fender wells. Garit HT would give you the best deep snow. S950 the best stability with good winter capability. The WR the best wear. You decide which is the most important and that will answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 If it's not for the alloy rims, in the past I generally pick up my tires at Costco. Other than the long wait for service, I received great pricing, reasonable selections, and excellent warranty. Around here Costco was one of the 1st company to adopt the use of nitrogen instead of air. With some of the unique properties of nitrogen, migrates 3 times slower than air (larger molecules), inert, etc. My experience is that the tires stay longer inflates, and maintain the pressure over a wider temperature range. I hate to laugh, but I think you are misinformed about what nitrogen is. Turns out, nitrogen is about 79% of the air we breathe, and incidentally that same percentage of compressed air =). Larger molecules - I don't know where that comes from, but both nitrogen (N2) and oxygen (O2) are the same size. The only possible difference between using compressed air and nitrogen is that nitrogen, when purified, will have little if any water content, whereas air has water from humidity. Especially in the winter, this is a pretty small percentage of what's in your tires. Now, in the summer on a very humid day, if you fill your tires with an air compressor, you will have a significant amount of water, whose vapor pressure changes significantly with temperature. Nitrogen for tire filling is just a marketing gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 ^Pure N contains no O and therefore no oxidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Tantal is correct; it's the water vapor that's the key. Aircraft landing gear and tires used to allow filling with either nitrogen OR dry air. I think everyone uses nitrogen these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 Stand corrected and thanks for the correction Tantal. Learn something again today. For those of you who's interested more in the N2 Vs O2 debate I find this web site full of information and debates. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=120996&page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 ^Pure N contains no O and therefore no oxidation. afaik you don't need to worry at all about oxidation inside your tires. The outside of your tires have a lot more crap to deal with such as air, sun, hot/cold cycles. But I could be wrong. The big problem with the internet is that it is a wonderful source of disinformation. Anyone can be a philosopher or a guru or an all-knowing god on the internet with noone to say they are wrong about anything. This is making it ever more important for college students to make certain that they get a good education in chemistry, physics, biology, history, economics, etc, because everyon thinks they can go to the internet for whatever they need. Pretty soon you'll be believing that crystals (um, crystals of what? sand, diamond, cubic zirconia) can predict your love life and control the weather. Anyway, rant off. Kids, study your elementary sciences and be careful what you read on internet car forums (poking fun at self) LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 The real solution is to a) wear out your tires before UV and oxidation is a problem (ie. drive the car) and b) go buy your own air compressor so you can check PSI on a regular basis. Here's how I fill up my tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 afaik you don't need to worry at all about oxidation inside your tires. The outside of your tires have a lot more crap to deal with such as air, sun, hot/cold cycles. But I could be wrong.LOL The interior goes through the same heat cycles and contains about 18% O2 at ~3 atmospheres pressure. N is not as reactive as O. O is one of the most potent reactive elements in the universe. Its oxiadative properties are what make it so essential to life where it comes into to play in chemical energy release that provides 98% of the energy required by our metabolisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 The interior goes through the same heat cycles and contains about 18% O2 at ~3 atmospheres pressure. N is not as reactive as O. O is one of the most potent reactive elements in the universe. Its oxiadative properties are what make it so essential to life where it comes into to play in chemical energy release that provides 98% of the energy required by our metabolisms. This is a good example of the problematic information source of the internet. In this case, you imply that because of "O. O", erm, oxygen, you mean? , one of the most potent reactive elements, at 3 atmospheres pressure (um, not very much. the polyethylene used on the top of photo paper is made under a pressure of 1500 atmosphers, fyi), that the interior of the tires is going to be a really bad place for rubber to survive. yeah. I don't mean to pick on you, but come on, why exaggerate things like this? This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Some people on the internet like to exaggerate things to make a point, then other people walk away thinking the most wrong things about how nature and the world actually works. Its pretty sickening how few people understand the most basic physics, chemistry, and biology and then make decisions on misinformation. Trust me, that puny 3 atm pressure difference is minimal compared to the same oxygen concentration but having the UV radiation and additional heat input from friction with the road - tires heat up from the tread inwards - the tread heats up hotter than the inside to. Really, it's good to avoid exaggeration - your readers will be gratefull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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