chuqd Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Warren Brown wrote a very favorable review in the Washington Post Car Pages (9/26/04): "That little engine performs better than most V-6 engines I've driven. For that matter, it kicks the butts of some V-8s. ... And handling, well, it is no flirtation with hyperbole to say that the handling of the Legacy 2.5 GT Limited easily matches, and often feels as if it exceeds, the handling abilities of a Porsche Boxster or BMW 3 Series." Very positive stuff - check it out. [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48026-2004Sep24.html]Here's the review[/url] (registration probably required). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 [quote]easily matches, and often feels as if it exceeds, the handling abilities of a Porsche Boxster or BMW 3 Series." [/quote] I love the GT but I wonder if he has actually driven these other cars. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuqd Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 [quote name='GTCanada'] I love the GT but I wonder if he has actually driven these other cars. [/quote] Warren's pretty comprehensive - [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A6842-2002Jan19¬Found=true]2002 Boxster review[/url] [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A19240-2002Aug31¬Found=true]2002 M3[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAP Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 [quote name='chuqd'](registration probably required).[/quote] Get a login from [url]www.bugmenot.com[/url] to avoid having to register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xee Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 [quote name='DAP'][quote name='chuqd'](registration probably required).[/quote] Get a login from [url]www.bugmenot.com[/url] to avoid having to register.[/quote] Eh. Tried like four or five and didn't get any working. Then I remembered I had my own. [img]http://inat.org/Images/Smilies/wink.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LegacyGT330Ci Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Eh didn't work but this car does not handle better then a Porsche Boxster or BMW 330Ci thats a bit of an overstatemtn but I agree with his engine quote you wrote. '05 Black Legacy GT Wagon 5-spd '02 Topaz/Black 330Ci 5-spd Drift Ryder's School of Rally Arts, coming to an Australia near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 When the reviews are bad everybody complains and when the reviews are good everybody complains. I suppose we need a nice neutral review "the Legacy is just like a Camry" :roll: Rob   IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LegacyGT330Ci Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 ^I'm just speaking from expierence and the numbers ont eh car don't lie, its skidpad numbers have not been all that impressive. And this is a known weakness of the car, slightly excessive body roll, and bad handling rubber don't help the Legacy's case on any handling course. '05 Black Legacy GT Wagon 5-spd '02 Topaz/Black 330Ci 5-spd Drift Ryder's School of Rally Arts, coming to an Australia near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 That's why the Acura TSX is such a better car :lol: Legacy Handling sucks - got it :) Rob   IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 [quote name='rao']When the reviews are bad everybody complains and when the reviews are good everybody complains. I suppose we need a nice neutral review "the Legacy is just like a Camry" :roll:[/quote] :lol: That is SO true, and I was just thinking the same thing. :lol: Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 [quote name='05LegacyGT330Ci']^I'm just speaking from expierence and the numbers ont eh car don't lie, its skidpad numbers have not been all that impressive. And this is a known weakness of the car, slightly excessive body roll, and bad handling rubber don't help the Legacy's case on any handling course.[/quote] What is "slightly excessive" body roll? It is either excessive, or it isn't. And excessive, compared to what? A go-kart? A rally car? A pure sports car? Keep in mind what the Legacy GT is, which is a mass market-oriented, sporty sedan. It isn't a sports car. If Subaru made the Legacy the way some hairy-chested folks want, JDM suspension, 300hp, no body roll with super-sticky tires, they'd sell about fourteen of them, and there wouldn't be one sitting in my driveway, either. :lol: So, with that in mind, the Legacy has excellent handling for what it is, right down to its real-world, all-season rubber. Perahps the "handles better than x or y" car, used by the reviewer in question is in that context, as in a blend of real-world handling and comfort. Body roll isn't part of that picture, really. If there were one fallacy I would like to correct, it is that body roll=bad handling. The Legacy does have some body roll, but that roll never gets in the way of the suspension doing its job, the way said handling characteristic actually hinders some lesser sedans, sporty or otherwise. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LegacyGT330Ci Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 [quote name='gtguy'][quote name='05LegacyGT330Ci']^I'm just speaking from expierence and the numbers ont eh car don't lie, its skidpad numbers have not been all that impressive. And this is a known weakness of the car, slightly excessive body roll, and bad handling rubber don't help the Legacy's case on any handling course.[/quote] What is "slightly excessive" body roll? It is either excessive, or it isn't. And excessive, compared to what? A go-kart? A rally car? A pure sports car? Keep in mind what the Legacy GT is, which is a mass market-oriented, sporty sedan. It isn't a sports car. If Subaru made the Legacy the way some hairy-chested folks want, JDM suspension, 300hp, no body roll with super-sticky tires, they'd sell about fourteen of them, and there wouldn't be one sitting in my driveway, either. :lol: So, with that in mind, the Legacy has excellent handling for what it is, right down to its real-world, all-season rubber. Perahps the "handles better than x or y" car, used by the reviewer in question is in that context, as in a blend of real-world handling and comfort. Body roll isn't part of that picture, really. If there were one fallacy I would like to correct, it is that body roll=bad handling. The Legacy does have some body roll, but that roll never gets in the way of the suspension doing its job, the way said handling characteristic actually hinders some lesser sedans, sporty or otherwise. Kevin[/quote] Well its not excessive to the the point it makes you say Jeez but its not just a little is definatley noticable, and I was comparing it to the cars that the reviewer said it supposively handled better then. '05 Black Legacy GT Wagon 5-spd '02 Topaz/Black 330Ci 5-spd Drift Ryder's School of Rally Arts, coming to an Australia near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 it's nice that the journalist wrote a nice review and in the end, since those newspaper reviews are completely subjective and hardly ever quantitative, it is what it is. glowing opinion that the car exceeded his expectations. i am of the personal opinion that the e46m3 rolls too much, so i find some truth in his opining that the legacy's handling ability is within the same confidence interval as the more plebian e46 330. have owned 2 e36's and 1 e46, a 993, an STi and now a z06, and i think the legacy GTs are just fine for what they do. surprisingly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I still think the USDM GT needs the JDM GT suspension, stock.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 [quote name='racerdave']I still think the USDM GT needs the JDM GT suspension, stock....[/quote] I think the USDM needs JDM roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwantaLGTsti Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 If Subaru is going to mention the Porsche Boxter and Audi TT in its Legacy ads, it's only natural for people to draw handling comparisons (beyond the acceleration comparisons Subaru likes to quote) to these vehicles. Not sure about the TT, but I would bet 10:1 that the Legacy can't begin to hold a candle to the Boxter on winding roads. Subaru should either improve the suspension and tires or stop running commercials that portray it as a pseudo-performace vehicle that is worthy of the athletic skills of Lance Armstrong. What is the point of a high performance engine which severely outclasses the underlying suspension? It's a case of the weakest link... The Legacy GT is superior in many ways to the Camry and Accord, no need to get carried away with the marketing hype. I'm happy to see it get some positive press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexjapan Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I think people are confusing numbers with handling. A Miata churns out some pretty average numbers, and is one of the best handlers on the market. That's because handling isn't a numbers game, it's a driving experience. The reviewer had a great driving experience, thus the glowing review. Consumers get mixed up on this because it's so hard to explain to somebody in text, for it's something you have to experience in person with as open a mind as possible, to actually comprehend it. Not many people get an opportunity to drive a lot of cars, especially back to back, without lots of other factors influencing them, such as lease payments, insurance costs and more. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflayer Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 [quote name='apexjapan']I think people are confusing numbers with handling.... That's because handling isn't a numbers game, it's a driving experience. The reviewer had a great driving experience, thus the glowing review..... Paul Hansen [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url][/quote] Hear, hear. It's like getting married - you opt for you choice, partly because she's a great ri- Oh, I better stop there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crapy Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 nononono!!!! the Legacy handles better than boxter and 330 when there is rain and snow!!!! no doubt about that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Legacy handles WORLDS better with a set of summer tires. Steering tightens up. It tracks much better and tenaceously grips the road. I wouldn't be surprised if the car pulled .9x g's. Serously Subaru would have been better off going to the local dollar store and buying a 4 pack of party baloons to mount on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubie02 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Well, I have to say that I for one was underwhelmed with the handling of the bmw's I test drove (your garden variety 325's, 330's, etc). When I test drive in the one city I like to take them on this one road that heads out of town--it goes up a very windy and fairly steep hill, then when you get to the top you have very windy roads with roling ups and downs as well. I test drove the wrx, the bmw's, a mercedes c class etc all on this same run--and I ran them in a "spirited" manner. The BMW's were the only vehicles I drove that actually became airborn during some of the quick up and down motion areas. The wheels just didn't seem to keep contact as well and it would skip more on rough pavement. But of course thats one person's experience on one stretch of roads. I have to say, though, that the legacy tends to skip on the rough roads and not handle as well as the wrx did for whatever reason too--the same stock re92 tires seem to hydroplane more and skip on rough pavement worse than they did on the wrx. I didn't drive the boxter--too much $ for the speed for my pocketbook, but I'm guessing handling is in another class. On the other hand, its also in another class of vehicle...I'm sure if you took one of the porche 4 door sedans and...oh, wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 double-post deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 [quote]That's because handling isn't a numbers game, it's a driving experience. The reviewer had a great driving experience, thus the glowing review. [/quote] Exactly. This is one of the reasons why people focus on body roll. Even though the car may still have lots of grip the experience is rarely about ultimate grip. We are driving on the street after all. Psychologically, body roll denotes a lack of control which folks don't like. Dynamically, less roll can mean that all the tires get to do their job in the corners assuming enough compliance to keep them in contact with the road. Personally, I will be investigating STi spring options when they are available. No offense meant to those that like the stock USDM set up, of course :) Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSattler Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I've been reading Warren Brown for years in the Post, and he doesn't write puff pieces: when he doesn't like something in a car, he says so. He also had a complimentary review of the 2005 Outback a month or two ago. And he drives everything, from Kias to Maybachs (guess which he liked more?). Also, as someone who sold a Miata to buy a legacy, I can tell you my Legacy handles as well as the Miata and, of course, goes like stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 [quote]I've been reading Warren Brown for years in the Post, and he doesn't write puff pieces:[/quote] Thanks for the perspective, as I'm unfamiliar with his work, and perhaps I was too quick to dismiss his comments. It was the Boxster handling comparison that threw me off. But, I'll admit, I have not driven a Boxster. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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