Godspeed Michael Schumacher !

[tantal]

Good to see so F1 fans here.

 

Ferrari _rally_ car? Which car?

 

I'd like to see Michael in LeMans LMP1 . . . in a Lola, going up against the Audi R10.

[KartRacerBoy]

and dangerous ? No...I am not...but I am inertia driven. I also do have in the car a 20% pepper spray 250 mL (bear spec) just in case...You never know when you come across Villeneuve or Montoya zealots...

 

But otherwise I am as peaceful and cute as a bunny.

 

Criticizing Michael is permitted within reason.

 

Alright. I'll bite. What the heck do you mean by "inertia drivin" (other than the obvious physics reference)?

[bosco]

Alright. I'll bite. What the heck do you mean by "inertia drivin" (other than the obvious physics reference)?

 

it's a new operating system for a Benelli shot gun. bosco

[ElCoyote]

Criticizing Michael is permitted within reason.

 

Define within reason. The Cobbler tried to push Villeneuve into a wall, blocked the track to prevent a rival beating his time and many similar incidents. As Jackie Stewart said for a world champion he made more mistakes than a journeyman and it was only the superiority of the Ferrari, Jean Todt and team orders that masked his obvious (to those with two eyes) faults.

 

He is a uber cretin who had the good luck to be chosen by the team with the most money. Barrafiddle and Massa have run him close demonstrating the fact that Ferrari have a quicker car than others but have been hamstrung by "orders"

 

He is also aware that with a team mate, who is in all probability quicker (given the advantage of Ferrari) he will be upstaged hence the retirement.

Gutless, sociopathic, and possibly with as murderous streak.

 

Not godspeed but good riddance and may he take the tifossi and the volk with him.

 

Sayonara until the next crazy comes along

[GBY]

^^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Schumacher supports these claims to a large degree.

[f1anatic]

Alright. I'll bite. What the heck do you mean by "inertia drivin" (other than the obvious physics reference)?

 

it's a new operating system for a Benelli shot gun. bosco

 

Looks like Bosco is keeping updated on the technology. He is über-correct.

 

As for Coyotes...it is beyond clear that you have no clue what you are talking about. Besides your dirty 3rd grade language which shows that you are year behind the rest of us who can disagree peacefully and who do not insult each other's favorites and do not use miserable language towards someone whom we do not know personally; you also proved that you are a N00B to the mostest:icon_mrgr extent. Schumacher never pushed Villeneuve into a wall. You can at most make a claim for Damon Hill at Adelaide in 1994 but at Jerez in 1997 there were no walls for Villeneuve to be pushed in. And trust me they have not built any since.

 

I think you should be stripped of your Legacy GT.

 

Your foul language (for a second time) indicates that you are not a person worth talking to. I will act accordingly and encourgae the rest of the people here to do the same.

___________________

As for Kart Boy...did you come to Chicago yesterday ? I saw a deep tinted silver GT at Roosevelt and I-90/94 yesterday around 3 PM with Indiana plates.

 

Whaddaya comment on Schumi ? He ain't no angel but I hope you won't push on me Senna as a "saint" cause he wasn't even a "church door". I would not say that threatening to ram your opponent out before the race then actually do it...shows that you are much classier. Or the fists exchanged with Eddie Irvine. Or or or...I think to each his own and Schumi got moments neither he nor we- his fan- are proud of. But then again, Mr. Alonso himself finds himself guilty of some on-track antics this year - blocking opponents on racetrack (though the story with Massa is a bit suspicious). He did block people in Hungary, got Michael relegated to the back as well, he also blocked another Red Bull car in pre-season, raced Michael a few times at the pit-lane exit during practice while everyone else was lined up nicely...I mean every one of them will eventually do something not vers honorable. Did I mention Alonso going around Fissichella for obvious team orders this season and last season ?

We can get in depth if you wish.

[robinlsb]

A great driver, a fantasic engineer, fearless, and one of the poorest sportsmen of modern times. Not a person for kids to look up to........

[KartRacerBoy]

ElCoyote, you are deluded if you think his teammates have run Michael Schumacher "close" on anything approaching a consistent basis. The only one who came close was Barrichello a few years back for a single season was the car was easy to set up and make fast with a big "sweet spot" on the setup. Every other year the teammates occasionally were faster but usually at least half a second off in qualifying and way off on race pace. Look at Massa this year. He's won a single race but is rarely on the podium. He has some excuse; he runs alot of the race setups in practice for Michael, I'll bet, but this gives him MORE track time. Yet consistently he is slower than the Big Schu. By a lot.

 

Senna a saint? By no means. Of Senna, Prost, and Schumacher, all about equal of skill I'd say, Prost was the the cleanest driver and only did his nasty deed in Japan in 1989 after Senna had attacked Prost with his McLaren on several occasions. And it was the only incident of dirty driving I can think of Prost ever committing. Michael and Senna are pretty much on par for nasty driving tactics, I think.

 

 

f1anatic, it wasn't me in Chicago. I've got a red garnet wagon. As for my comments on Michael, are you referring to my statement that I hoped he didn't take Alonso off to win another championship? Hey, I'm just saying the guy's got a history. Luckily, he's behind in the points and as long as he is, he can't risk taking himself out, too.

 

As for Alonso, he deserved the penalty for swerving at the other driving in Hungary (but I don't recall what the 2nd 1 second penalty was for). I have no idea if he sold Michael a dummy to get him his penalty since I never saw any footage of the event. But so far Alonso has not demonstrated to me that he is willing to use Michael's excessive tactics to win at all costs. No Monaco-like incidents (how stupid does Michael think the world is not to see what he was up to; just goes to show you how enormous self belief can cloud judgment). Alonso hasn't purposefully rammed anyone off the track. He certainly defends his position aggressively, but remember Imola in 2005? No swerving to block, just judicious use of the brakes at the apex to prevent Michael from getting a run on him.

[robinlsb]

ElCoyote, you are deluded if you think his teammates have run Michael Schumacher "close" on anything approaching a consistent basis. The only one who came close was Barrichello a few years back for a single season was the car was easy to set up and make fast with a big "sweet spot" on the setup. Every other year the teammates occasionally were faster but usually at least half a second off in qualifying and way off on race pace. Look at Massa this year. He's won a single race but is rarely on the podium. He has some excuse; he runs alot of the race setups in practice for Michael, I'll bet, but this gives him MORE track time. Yet consistently he is slower than the Big Schu. By a lot.

 

Senna a saint? By no means. Of Senna, Prost, and Schumacher, all about equal of skill I'd say, Prost was the the cleanest driver and only did his nasty deed in Japan in 1989 after Senna had attacked Prost with his McLaren on several occasions. And it was the only incident of dirty driving I can think of Prost ever committing. Michael and Senna are pretty much on par for nasty driving tactics, I think.

 

 

+1 one the above, and don't forget M's first "championship" You know, Nigel !

 

 

f1anatic, it wasn't me in Chicago. I've got a red garnet wagon. As for my comments on Michael, are you referring to my statement that I hoped he didn't take Alonso off to win another championship? Hey, I'm just saying the guy's got a history. Luckily, he's behind in the points and as long as he is, he can't risk taking himself out, too.

 

As for Alonso, he deserved the penalty for swerving at the other driving in Hungary (but I don't recall what the 2nd 1 second penalty was for). I have no idea if he sold Michael a dummy to get him his penalty since I never saw any footage of the event. But so far Alonso has not demonstrated to me that he is willing to use Michael's excessive tactics to win at all costs. No Monaco-like incidents (how stupid does Michael think the world is not to see what he was up to; just goes to show you how enormous self belief can cloud judgment). Alonso hasn't purposefully rammed anyone off the track. He certainly defends his position aggressively, but remember Imola in 2005? No swerving to block, just judicious use of the brakes at the apex to prevent Michael from getting a run on him.

[rfd425]

Schumi blows. Alright, I'll admit he's good, but he's nowhere near as good as his record would suggest on paper. Most of his success was achieved with a team that (1) received preferential treatment from the FIA (2) had a de facto exclusive tire deal, buoyed by the fact that they tested more than the next three teams put together, and (3) was totally built around Michael's personal success, due largely to the specifications of his contract, and also to his friendships with Jean Todt and Ross Brawn. His teammates were never really a match, but that's because he had veto power in choosing them, and he always approved good, but not great, drivers who were willing to be his patsy.

Define within reason. The Cobbler tried to push Villeneuve into a wall, blocked the track to prevent a rival beating his time and many similar incidents.

Let's mention a couple. First of all, there was Adelaide 1994, when under pressure from Hill, Schumi choked and put his own car into the wall. As he limped his terminally damaged car around off the racing line, he left a huge hole for Hill at the next corner, only to suddenly turn and crash right into him as soon as Hill tried to pass. Probably the only reason Schumi is recognized today as the 1994 World Champ is that the Williams team elected not to protest, because of Senna's tragedy earlier in the season.

 

For that matter, it is widely accepted that Schumi's 1994 Benetton used illegal traction-control. When Michael's car was seized and traction-control was indeed found, the team said it was only there for testing and they never actually used it in races. Of course, the FIA accepted the alibi, since they didn't want the whole season ruined.

 

Then there was the F3 Macau GP in 1990 (or '91, I forget) when Hakkinen only needed to finish second to Schumi in the final race to win the championship. So Michael, who was leading, left a huge hole for his rival, only to slam his own car into Hakkinen when Mika went for the pass. Anyone see a pattern here?

 

Renault rehiring Fisichella is a laughable decision

I have to disagree with you there. Fisi has shown some propensity for mistakes under pressure, and he has been solidly beaten by Alonso, but Alonso is maybe the best all-around driver in F1 at this point, and Alonso certainly had more support from the Renault team last year, if not this year. Still, Fisi has managed to show Alonso up on rare occasions.

 

Prior to being paired with Alonso, Fisi beat every teammate he ever had, including Ralf Schumacher, Alex Wurz, and Jenson Button (totally destroyed him). Fisi's drive to 3rd place at Spa in 2001, in the godawful Benetton of that year, was one of the best drives I've seen in the new milennium.

[GBY]

As for Coyotes...it is beyond clear that you have no clue what you are talking about. Besides your dirty 3rd grade language which shows that you are year behind the rest of us who can disagree peacefully and who do not insult each other's favorites and do not use miserable language towards someone whom we do not know personally; you also proved that you are a N00B to the mostest:icon_mrgr extent. Schumacher never pushed Villeneuve into a wall. You can at most make a claim for Damon Hill at Adelaide in 1994 but at Jerez in 1997 there were no walls for Villeneuve to be pushed in. And trust me they have not built any since.

 

I think you should be stripped of your Legacy GT.

 

Your foul language (for a second time) indicates that you are not a person worth talking to. I will act accordingly and encourgae the rest of the people here to do the same.

 

What on earth are you on about? Try and at least quote what you are referring to so we have some idea.

[KartRacerBoy]

rfd425,

 

Regarding Fisi, I think Renault made a silly decision to rehire him for 2007 based solely on continuity. If his pace was a little closer to Alonso's I wouldn't have a problem with the decision, but as you say, Alonso has solidly beaten Fisi both in 2005 and 2006. As for Fisi beating Ralf Schumacher at Jordan (1997!), Wurz (where? I can't recall), or Button at Renault in 2001, those results were a LONG time ago. And none of those drivers are anything more than journeymen. Button is overrated, but wouldn't you expect a 2nd year driver put into a crappy chassis to get his butt handed to him on a plate? Unless he's a Michael or Senna or Prost, and Button isn't even close!

[KartRacerBoy]

Gumby, f1anatic is going on about ElCoyote's last post regarding Michael Schumacher.

[tantal]

The funny thing about Renault for next year is that they COULD have had Mark Webber, who would kick Fisi's slow ass. Instead they had the gumption to think they'd end up with Raikonnen. Haha, little did they know.

 

 

It will be fun to watch Kovalienen make Fisi look silly next season. I wonder how many garages Fisi will walk into and call other drivers bastards for blocking him in quali.

 

Felipe and Kimi will kick some ass next year!

 

 

 

rfd425,

 

Regarding Fisi, I think Renault made a silly decision to rehire him for 2007 based solely on continuity. If his pace was a little closer to Alonso's I wouldn't have a problem with the decision, but as you say, Alonso has solidly beaten Fisi both in 2005 and 2006. As for Fisi beating Ralf Schumacher at Jordan (1997!), Wurz (where? I can't recall), or Button at Renault in 2001, those results were a LONG time ago. And none of those drivers are anything more than journeymen. Button is overrated, but wouldn't you expect a 2nd year driver put into a crappy chassis to get his butt handed to him on a plate? Unless he's a Michael or Senna or Prost, and Button isn't even close!

[rfd425]

... as you say, Alonso has solidly beaten Fisi both in 2005 and 2006.

Yes he has, but being solidly beaten doesn't necessarily mean a guy isn't worthy of keeping his drive. Maybe he's not an A-level driver like Alonso or Raikkonen, but he is a B+ level driver, like Montoya or Trulli or Button.

 

As for Fisi beating Ralf Schumacher at Jordan (1997!), Wurz (where? I can't recall), or Button at Renault in 2001, those results were a LONG time ago.

Well, I could have mentioned Sato and Massa and his other generic pay-driver teammate at Jordan (Pantano? Firman? I can't remember), but I didn't think those guys were really worthy of mention.

 

Fisi actually put more distance between himself and Massa than Schumacher has.

The funny thing about Renault for next year is that they COULD have had Mark Webber, who would kick Fisi's slow ass.

That would never have happened. Fisi would have put the final nail into Webber's already shaky career.

 

Felipe and Kimi will kick some ass next year!

Need I remind you that Fisichella dominated Massa when they were teammates in 2004?

[f1anatic]

Wow I am missing out on the debate of the century.

 

Gumby - read El Coyote's post. i did not quoite, but in my defense, Kart Boy knows what motivated me to write that piece.

 

RFD

 

1)What's wrong with micro-managing ? Attention to details is what got Michael the titles. Then Macro-Managing - he surrounded himself with able people Todt, Brawn, Byrne - 2 of them followed him from Benetton. Surrounding oneself with able people to serve your own selfish purpose - winning a world title - should not be looked down upon but rather as a feat since he convinced them he is worth such an association. Micahel had a dream team around him...so that admirable. Why do you not comment on Patrick Head, Adrian Newey time together at Williams and their 6 titles in the 1990s ? Were they not a dream team too for Alain Prost ? or Nigel Mansell ? or Senna ?

 

then you criticize Michael's (ferrari's) contract with Bridgestone and the advantage they had from testing so much and having preferential treatment. Well, except 2002 and 2004, Michael never had superior tires. On the other hand, when your other Bridgestone teams are Jordan and Minardi - how can you not test more since their data is likely not gonna benefit you ? You fail to mention Senna's perceived advantage from his friendship with the Honda engineers during his stint at McLaren, espec. in 1988 and 1989 when he partnered Prost ? Isn't that often cited as a reason for Prost's departure from McLaren ?

 

Veto power. Well I am sure Michael's words weigh heavily at Ferrari --. that is why I dismiss as rubbish any allegations that he was forced out early. But ultimately he is still an employee and he goes by the rules set forth by others. What team mates were in a position to fight for the title - as he did ? Team orders ? Weak team mates ? Well look at 1998 with Coulthard and Hakkinen...crap look at team Renault, Fred and Fissi this year at Indy, or even earlier in the season. we know who's the favorite son at Renault from among the drivers...None of the top teams of the past 2 decades is a stranger to team orders...but no doubt it was Benetton and Michael that made them mainstream. It is, like many other things, a necessary evil to insure ultimate glory.

 

Where was Michael's veto power in Turkey to get Massa to enter pits behind him during the safety car period ? He forgot it home in Switzerland perhaps ?

[tantal]

Dude, if you think Fisi is on the level of montoya, or even truli, I have to ask, what races have you been watching over the last 4 years or so? Also, compared to Massa, who was just starting in2004, Fisi had been in F1 6 years or so already.

 

The guy is fas (fisi) on occasion, but most of the races he just blows - like Ralf but far worse. Remember when his engineer was saying "you CANT be 2 sec slower than alonso!" ? Massa is always within .5 sec of Michael, and sometimes faster.

 

Massa would dominate fisi on the same team just like Alonso.

 

In fact, Massa is going to be an A driver within 2 years, at the top with Alonso and Kimi.

 

These guys are the class of the field.

[tantal]

Regarding team orders, Didn't you all notice that fisi let Alonso pass him immediately at the start of the race? Did you note Fisi's ultimate pace for the race?

 

Keep in mind, the Renault is (now) the 3rd fastest car on the grid. And fisi can't score consistently?

 

He bites. He's one of the guys who should move over for the Albers, Hamiltons, Kovalainens, Kliens, and Speeds of the business.

 

Can't wait to see him shown up again next year. Did anyone else hear Ecclestone trying to talk Schumacher into a Renault seat next year???

 

Wouldn't that be awesome? Michael and Heikki in the Renaults for a 4 way championship battle? Kimi, then Massa, Michael, and Alonso in 4th (btw with 5 dnfs for Fred).

 

LOL

[f1anatic]

Massa has teamed up with Raikkonen in 2001 at Sauber (or was it Heidfeld ?).

 

I noticed ...there is something funny about Michael's retirement. I got no doubts the man is tired and needs to recharge batteries and has no motivation when all he does is rewrite his own records. But he states he is staying with Ferrari. He states he will continue to work with Willi Webber - his motorsports manager. And he is being strongly suggested by the F1 BOSS himself Ecclestone to stick around - as you say.

 

Stories:

"My Formula 1 goodbye, as announced, will not be a goodbye to Ferrari or Willi. We will work together again in the future and I am happy about this," Schumacher said.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=129874

Ecclestone would prefer to keep Schumacher for another year or two in Formula One. "I would prefer not to say goodbye," he commented.

 

"With his ability and his fitness Schumacher has at least two more years in him to race in Formula 1," Ecclestone told Bild. Renault F1 team boss Flavio Briatore wasn't that sad to see Schumacher go but Ecclestone doesn't buy it. "I know that Renault would take him right away," he said.

 

Michael is up to something.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=129945

[f1anatic]

If you read F1 Racing - the last issue - there is talk about him going to BMW in 2008, for 100 million and up to 1 billion in benefits including M cars Schumacher edition etc. Is 2007 the year off between Ferrari and BMW ?

[rfd425]

I wouldn't be surprised if the BMW thing happens, and I think that would be great. It would be very good for the sport.

 

I'm not really criticizing MS for team orders and preferential treatment within the team, etc.; I'm just saying that he isn't as good as he appears, because of those things. At least he's not as good of a driver as he seems; I'll be the first to admit he's great at getting a team to work for him.

 

Dude, if you think Fisi is on the level of montoya, or even truli, I have to ask, what races have you been watching over the last 4 years or so? Also, compared to Massa, who was just starting in2004, Fisi had been in F1 6 years or so already.

Massa was in his third year when he got smoked by Fisichella at Sauber in 2004. He had a year of getting his butt kicked by Heidfeld in '02, then a year testing for Ferrari, before getting pasted by Fisi in '04. Sorry, but by a driver's third year, he better be showing something. Alonso and Kimi were winning races in their third year. Hell, after a slow start, Villeneuve was quicker than Massa for the last half of last season. The only reason Massa has a decent drive in F1 is because he is managed by Jean Todt's son.

 

What races was I watching Fisi in for the last few years? Well, start with the aforementioned Spa 2001. Then, look at all the fifth- and sixth-place finishes he had for Jordan and Sauber in '02-'04. Those were not good cars.

[bosco]

I wouldn't be surprised if the BMW thing happens, and I think that would be great. It would be very good for the sport.

 

I'm not really criticizing MS for team orders and preferential treatment within the team, etc.; I'm just saying that he isn't as good as he appears, because of those things. At least he's not as good of a driver as he seems; I'll be the first to admit he's great at getting a team to work for him.

 

 

Massa was in his third year when he got smoked by Fisichella at Sauber in 2004. He had a year of getting his butt kicked by Heidfeld in '02, then a year testing for Ferrari, before getting pasted by Fisi in '04. Sorry, but by a driver's third year, he better be showing something. Alonso and Kimi were winning races in their third year. Hell, after a slow start, Villeneuve was quicker than Massa for the last half of last season. The only reason Massa has a decent drive in F1 is because he is managed by Jean Todt's son.

 

What races was I watching Fisi in for the last few years? Well, start with the aforementioned Spa 2001. Then, look at all the fifth- and sixth-place finishes he had for Jordan and Sauber in '02-'04. Those were not good cars.

 

F1 sounds screwed up again/still. maybe all their drivers will go to NASCAR. at least they would be racing. bosco

[bluesuby]

The only F1 drivers who will go to NASCAR are the ones who can't help but to run into the other competitors. Racing?

[f1anatic]

The only F1 drivers who will go to NASCAR are the ones who can't help but to run into the other competitors. Montoya?

[bosco]

i like F1, WRC, NHRA, NASCAR, SUPERBIKE basically anything with wheels. F1 as with all motorsports is slowly going the way of NASCAR with rule changes, tires, money spent (high-tech), etc. ever ride/drive a cup car? you would change you mind about them. they are as high-tech as any purpose built race car out there and at least they can pass unlike the F1 train. boring. a race car is a race car no matter what the class is. bosco