Is Legacy Wagon History?

[SBT]

Well Bob - rsholland - please use all of your pull to convey the need for the LGT Wagon MT variant. I don't care if it's 5MT or 6MT although the 6MT seems to have more "cache" ascribed to it so that may be the way to go. The jury is really out, IMHO, as to whether it's really that much of a difference from one to the other in real world driving.

 

Again, if SOA WOULD go to the trouble of bringing a USDM MT Spec-B Wagon, why can't they take the next step and introduce an MT-equipped, STI-prepped Legacy Wagon as a performance replacement for the LGT Wagon?

 

BTW Bob - good to see you on the boards.

 

SBT

[MtnSub]

The REAL questions looks more and more like ALL Legacy's in SOA may be HISTORY or at least back to being a small volume seller for the grandparents. SOA appears to be retreating back to its historic Impreza, Forester, Outback customer base. If Tribeca is a success, they will have shown some ability to grow market share or backfill attrition of base.

 

For all practical discussion, the Legacy Wagon is SOA history, dead. Let's get real, Legacy wagons AND sedans in the USA have been grandma/grandpa cars for years and have always been low sales volume. Subaru quickly canned program to change Legacy image and the hot new versions of Legacy sedans and wagons has not found a "significant" new market. Just read the posts here and on other sites and see how many reasons SOA limitations give existing and new Legacy SEDAN buyers to go elsewhere. Paint colors, interior color dictates, lack of interior options, etc.

 

I am not beating down SOA for dropping a poor sales performer. I am being critical of offering a race horse, under a plow horse name/image and not being committed to changing the image to match the press releases about going after Audi/BMW/Volvo customers.

 

If ALL Legacy's are not dead for SOA, they are definitely back to the ARP budget market. SOA is so skitso, at this point, they just may send 200 STI Leg Sedans to you sedan guys, before dropping all MTs for Legacy.

[Joe Boxer]

In my mind, as I am sure the gist of you will agree, there is one major hurdle that determines whether or not this car (Legacy wagon, irregardless of transmission) sells. It is the marketing of the vehicle and the American connotation associated with being seen driving a "station wagon."

 

As a 25 year-old, male, I have been gawked at...even pointed at...for the choice of car that I have made. Strange looks are even in part compared to the verbal suitcase of terms I hear often. Years of ignorance and hand-me-down mentalities have placed this negative association on a long-roofed car. Wagons are viewed as effiminate and/or elderly. The assumption is you are carting around groceries, children, pets, or what have you.

 

Whereas some of these ideologies are true, they are not entirely painted accurately. With a good marketing scheme and perhaps some inter-market assistance (think about if Volvo marketed their V70R and Audi joined in with the A4/S4 Avant), together the market could be revised.

 

I think the best example of this is the view of the compact SUV (if that is what you want to call it) market...the Element and the xB. Marketing has created these vehicles that, otherwise, would be complete busts. I believe with a well scoped advertising plan that the years of impasse mindsets can be washed and crafted into something a little more accepting.

 

I know that I personally have amazed quite a few of my friends who had the social norm's mindset. We know this car is unique because we drive it daily, we discuss it amongst ourselves, and enjoy it. I, lastly, ask...only as a small challenge...what are you doing to help progress the mindset of people? Are you taking a moment to stop and talk to the people who you catch glancing at your car in the parking lot? That alone could convert one more reason for SoA to continue to build the Legacy wagon, no matter what transmission you prefer.

 

--Joey (I didn't check this for spelling errors, so eat me if I made a mistake)

[praedet]

If things truly go the way they look, I think some company should get out there and cash in on Subaru's mistakes...

 

Buy up MT Outback XTs (limited and non-limited) and offer conversions...

 

- Transmission conversion: 5MT -> 07 Spec B 6MT w/ Torsen and VDC

 

- Suspension conversion: Outback Suspension -> Bilstiens/Pinks plus sways

 

- Brake Conversion: Outback Brakes -> GT Brakes (better pads/lines/fluid) -> Stoptech fronts and GT rears (upgraded pads/lines/fluid all around)

 

- Exterior Conversion: Outback body cladding -> JDM Spec-B bumpers w/ body cladding removed

 

- Engine Packages: Include the ability to go up to a Stage 2+ with headers and a TMIC

 

Or, the company can just buy Canadian LGT MT Wagons, and do some of these conversions on them...

 

Ted

[Joe Boxer]

If things truly go the way they look, I think some company should get out there and cash in on Subaru's mistakes...

 

Buy up MT Outback XTs (limited and non-limited) and offer conversions...

 

- Transmission conversion: 5MT -> 07 Spec B 6MT w/ Torsen and VDC

 

- Suspension conversion: Outback Suspension -> Bilstiens/Pinks plus sways

 

- Brake Conversion: Outback Brakes -> GT Brakes (better pads/lines/fluid) -> Stoptech fronts and GT rears (upgraded pads/lines/fluid all around)

 

- Exterior Conversion: Outback body cladding -> JDM Spec-B bumpers w/ body cladding removed

 

- Engine Packages: Include the ability to go up to a Stage 2+ with headers and a TMIC

 

Or, just buy Canadian LGT MT Wagons, and do some of these conversion on them...

 

Ted

 

 

stop.

 

think ESX.

 

rethink proposal.

 

do you want to pay $10K on top of the current pricing of noted vehicles?

[gargleblaster]

a spec. B wagon with a 6-speed manual would sell. I would ask SOA to offer that combo instead of a 5-speed manual GT wagon.

 

Bob

I sent a nicely worded and well-thought-out email about 2 days after the announcement of the USDM '07 spec.B asking for this very thing. I got the canned 'we value our loyal customer's opinions' response for my time and effort. I am no longer a loyal customer.

[gargleblaster]

I got a smoking deal on a '06 Volvo V70R (with 6MT), and away my '05 STi went.

 

What is smoking? I have been trying to talk the wife into the boxy V70R.

Over $9600 off MSRP. The markup on these cars is incredible. Dealers are very motivated to move their '06 inventories. The deal I got put it into the $35-$38k range that I would be willing to pay for a proper Legacy STi wagon. Too bad SoA won't bring them over here.

[gargleblaster]

In my mind, as I am sure the gist of you will agree, there is one major hurdle that determines whether or not this car (Legacy wagon, irregardless of transmission) sells. It is the marketing of the vehicle and the American connotation associated with being seen driving a "station wagon."

Great post, and I completely agree. About the only favorable image in the media recently with a wagon was the commercial where the Dodge Magnum toasted an anonymous Italian-looking sports car. I've seen a few Magnums on the road around here, but it's still such a small percentage.

 

I'll never understand why the American perception of a littlebox-bigbox-bigbox shape is favorable for an SUV, but is shunned when it sits 3 inches off the ground instead of 8.

[Joe Boxer]

Thanks for the compliment.

 

I will never grasp the miseducation of functionality and necessity. I was at Starbucks this weekend, in my LGT wagon, in front of me was a H2...there will never be a civilian purpose for those. Sad part is, I worked a very large HUMMER distributor/dealer, it's nothing to move a hundred of them per month.

 

In 'the Wonder Years'...the father drove an Oldsmobile station wagon. In 'That 70's Show'...Red has a station wagon (and the 'vette). Some where between the 70's and today the misperception came about. We can thank the big 3, that is for sure. We can also look at it from the industrialization of our country and it's reliability on SUVs and trucks to haul/tow/move things.

 

Needless to say, Europe and Japan have it right.

 

--Joey

[MtnSub]

It may be a SoCal thing, but sport wagons are really big, even with younger people. Unlike their dad, my sons have grown up in affluent Newport Beach & San Marino. They hang with the "in crowd" and two of them drive sport wagons. 24 year old drives a BMW3iX wagon and the 18 year old drives a V40 Turbo special edition Volvo wagon with sport suspension and BBS classics. They luv their cars for surfing and snowboarding. They are not alone. They have friends with the very SoCal popular Dodge Magnums and Audi A4S wagons. I see a ton of young people in the WRX wagon around the beach and in the mountains.

 

My 24 year old said he likes the looks of his BMW better than my LegGT, but he cannot believe how the boxer4 pulls. He says my LegGT wagon feels like a pure machine.

[ATB]

I too went ahead an gave SOA some feedback through the website. I at least got what looked to be a custom response with an understanding tone, but the basic gist was:

 

Sorry you want a manual Legacy wagon but we couldn't sell them and wont be making any more.

 

If anyone plans to sell an 05 legacy limited with blue or black exterior and black interior, let me know. Otherwise I am going to be saving up for a Audi/BMW/Volvo manual wagon. Hopefully before those manufactures stop making them too.

[rsholland]

I sent a nicely worded and well-thought-out email about 2 days after the announcement of the USDM '07 spec.B asking for this very thing. I got the canned 'we value our loyal customer's opinions' response for my time and effort. I am no longer a loyal customer.

 

Just gotta keep letting them know. Otherwise we'll never get what we want. If enough people keep contacting them, sooner or later they'll get the message.

 

Bob

[Tommyh]

Just gotta keep letting them know. Otherwise we'll never get what we want. If enough people keep contacting them, sooner or later they'll get the message.

 

Bob

 

hahahahahaha...I'm sorry...hahaha... Ok, ok I didn't mean to laugh. I'm sorry but I'm getting the distinct impression that SOA couldn't give a rat's ass about what we want unless it's a WRX STI(i).

 

SOA fell into the same retarded trap that Saturn did in the late '90's early '00's. The forgot to ADVERTISE their products. Nobody wanted a manual trasmission wagon because NOBODY KNEW THAT IT EXISTED. Good Figgen job dudes! you screwed the pooch on that one!

 

F.U. Subaru

[SBT]

The one demographic that I had expected Subaru to keep their eagle eye on was the young man and woman who bought the WRX for the performance (and especially the SoCal men/women who bought the WRX wagon for its performance "utility") and would eventually (3-7 years) need something to move into when they got married, had kids and outgrew their WRX.

 

The Subaru performance gene-pool runs pretty deep and wide through the LGT and, as we have seen on this board, many are moving up from the WRX (even getting rid of their STIs to gain space and comfort). That told me that the upward progression was starting, and it continues today. Just check the, "hey, I'm coming from a WRX and am seriously considering the LGT/OBXT" threads in the new member introductions.

 

Follow the demographics (money) and build these move-up wagons, the market is there right in front of you. And for crying out loud, market the performance advantage of these cars... the Gran Turismo video game marketed the WRX for you. The WRX marketed the LGT/OBXT for you but Subaru has not stepped up to truly capture the BMW/Volvo/Audi share which is where they really need to put their energy. Re-initiate the ride-and-drive, side-by-side comparos (and this time with MTs not auto-boxes). And here's the real deal... if you get this right (and it's not that hard), then the move-up vehicle for the LGT crowd will be the Tribeca. Maybe it just makes too much sense. You know you've got a winner here with the LGT, now just take it to the next level.

 

Okay - rant off.

 

SBT

[Guest]

SOA is bunch of frigging idiots.

[Tommyh]

...Maybe it just makes too much sense...

 

and thats why SOA will never do it.

 

F.U. Subaru

[320busdrivr]

I'm another move-up from a WRX wagon w/manual. I lost it in the hurricane, and was able to get one of the few remaining 5 speed wagons. It is actually my fourth Subaru. Since I would like to replace our minivan with a carbon copy of the GT (did I mention I hate minivans?) I sent a message to SOA expressing my frustration with their direction. I actually traded a few emails with them. While they did give the standard line ("we just didn't sell enough"), I was actually impressed with the detail of the replies. These were not canned responses I got. So, while it may not make any difference in the long run, it still can't hurt to communicate our desires. I was just careful to be polite and professional, in order to be taken more seriously. I did tell them that I'll have to move to another manufacturer if they keep trying to tell me to drive automatics.

[Spinjockey]

It may be a SoCal thing, but sport wagons are really big, even with younger people. Unlike their dad, my sons have grown up in affluent Newport Beach & San Marino. They hang with the "in crowd" and two of them drive sport wagons. 24 year old drives a BMW3iX wagon and the 18 year old drives a V40 Turbo special edition Volvo wagon with sport suspension and BBS classics. They luv their cars for surfing and snowboarding. They are not alone. They have friends with the very SoCal popular Dodge Magnums and Audi A4S wagons. I see a ton of young people in the WRX wagon around the beach and in the mountains.

 

Not just a SoCal thing but I think at least a West Coast thing if not bicoastal. Loads of people with wagons out here in the Bay Area, plus friends up in Seattle say the same thing. Then again CA has to be a pretty good size market for Subaru.

 

If subaru's going to get rid of the legacy at least sell a "sport package" for the outback that changes the cladding/fog lights/grill... I can fix the suspension myself.

[Guest]

Not just a SoCal thing but I think at least a West Coast thing if not bicoastal. Loads of people with wagons out here in the Bay Area, plus friends up in Seattle say the same thing. Then again CA has to be a pretty good size market for Subaru.

 

If subaru's going to get rid of the legacy at least sell a "sport package" for the outback that changes the cladding/fog lights/grill... I can fix the suspension myself.

 

As far as fixing OB suspension... I guess not so easy, given the subframe spacers. You can drop it down with legacy struts/coilovers, but I don't think it will be the same. Different suspension travel, camber problems, etc.

 

But indeed body cladding is fugly. Eeewww.

[MtnSub]

I am with ya Spinjockey, except I would expect Subaru to give us a "sport suspension" OBXT. It will not be as low as the BMW wagon or as low as current LegGT, but it will be a suspension for the twisties and it will have better snow clearance than the BMW wagon.

 

I have said a number of times that I think their is good logic, in addition to sales numbers, supporting Legacy as the sedan group and Outback as the Wagon group. Given that decision, Subaru can more than afford to stay in the sport wagon market with a slightly lowered, Sti suspension OBXT, 290+HP, 6MT, great sound system, for on-road performance Outback.

 

Maybe this site is just months ahead of the curve and SOA understands that it will need to offer something special for Outback, when it takes away from Legacy. Maybe taking away from Legacy will actualy give Legacy Sedans a better chance at getting their Sti? Maybe we have gone "Hate SOA" too quickly, but maybe we have been a very small part of sending the message.

 

Regardless, we are living in a time of great auto options at value prices and have lots of great option now and on the horizon. I have been looking at cars that cost twice as much as my LegGT/MT/wagon and they are boasting about sub-6, 0-60 times. My 05 LegGT/MT wagon does that and Porsche Caymen requires the "S" option to beat it and the new BMWX5 requires the V8 to beat my LegGT/wagon. Sure they have quality style issues, but the simplicity of the LegGTs combined with performance has it own pleasure. Motor on.

[ATB]

a slightly lowered, Sti suspension OBXT, 290+HP, 6MT, great sound system, for on-road performance Outback.

 

If it wasn't too high, had a monochrome paint job, a SpecB interior, and didn't have any body cladding, I would take one. Sounds like an excellent compromise between bean counters and car folk.

[ATB]

This is exactly what I politely and professionally tried to get accross in my message to SoA. My wife and I bought a new WRX wagon when we were 1st married and now need a bigger car since kid #1 is due in a month. We enjoy cars and do not want an SUV or a slushbox. Please. I love the WRX and want to stay with Subaru, but I will move "up" to Audi/BMW/Volvo if Subaru does not offer what we want.

 

 

The one demographic that I had expected Subaru to keep their eagle eye on was the young man and woman who bought the WRX for the performance (and especially the SoCal men/women who bought the WRX wagon for its performance "utility") and would eventually (3-7 years) need something to move into when they got married, had kids and outgrew their WRX.

 

The Subaru performance gene-pool runs pretty deep and wide through the LGT and, as we have seen on this board, many are moving up from the WRX (even getting rid of their STIs to gain space and comfort). That told me that the upward progression was starting, and it continues today. Just check the, "hey, I'm coming from a WRX and am seriously considering the LGT/OBXT" threads in the new member introductions.

 

Follow the demographics (money) and build these move-up wagons, the market is there right in front of you. And for crying out loud, market the performance advantage of these cars... the Gran Turismo video game marketed the WRX for you. The WRX marketed the LGT/OBXT for you but Subaru has not stepped up to truly capture the BMW/Volvo/Audi share which is where they really need to put their energy. Re-initiate the ride-and-drive, side-by-side comparos (and this time with MTs not auto-boxes). And here's the real deal... if you get this right (and it's not that hard), then the move-up vehicle for the LGT crowd will be the Tribeca. Maybe it just makes too much sense. You know you've got a winner here with the LGT, now just take it to the next level.

 

Okay - rant off.

 

SBT

[jmcgliss]

Ditto

[Kenshin]

My email to SOA and reply (my name omitted), thought it was worth reading:

 

Thank you for visiting the Subaru web site and for your message!

 

Subaru has no plans to discontinue the Legacy GT Wagon. The next

Legacy redesign (major) is not scheduled until at least 2009.

 

If you have any other questions, do not hesitate to reply to this

email!

 

Best wishes,

 

Samir Hasan

Subaru of America, Inc.

Customer/Dealer Services Department

-----------------------------------------------------------

YOUR ORIGINAL MAIL:

 

I am a current 05 Legacy GT sedan owner who loves is car and I am

looking to replace it with the Legacy GT Wagon instead when you guys are

apparently going to revamp it in 2008 (I am a member on the forum

legacygt.com). If the rumors are true that you folks are going to snub the

wagon and not sell it in the US anymore, then you have lost a customer who

is (was if this happens) hooked on Subaru for life as well as all the

good word of mouth i give to everyone i know about your vehicles. PLEASE

do not put the wagon out of production, as I think it is much better

than the sedan, and I should've bought it in wagon form when i bought it

last year. Thank you.

 

--------------

 

I know everyone is discussing more along the lines of a manual tranny LGT wagon, but since I'm looking to replace my LGT Sedan 5EAT with a new wagon in the same tranny, I'm all happy now.

[Tommyh]

Samir sure answers a lot of email....

 

Boy do I hope that his answer wasn't just alot of "hot air"....