Legacy GT Wagon?

[binaryfarms]

Help save my marriage! My wife and have been looking at the 06's, but can't agree.

 

- I love the way the WRX wagon drove

- she feels better about the Outback XT because it has more space.

- I thought the XT had too much body roll and the steering felt a little numb

- We both want a manual because it's more fun to drive

 

We think the Legacy GT would fit the bill perfectly, but no one in California has any, and of course only the 05 came in a manual. So I have 3 questions:

 

- Does the GT handle better and have better steering feedback than the Outback?

- They have the GT in a sedan locally, I assume it would drive pretty much the same as the wagon?

- Any leads on an 05 GT limited wagon with a manual tranny? We've been searching dealer inventory for 05 leftovers and have a couple leads, but they are so scarce that any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance, searching here has lead me to believe that this is the car we want, just hope we can track one down.

 

-Mark

[turboman38]

Yes the LGT handles much better than the outback IMO.

I haven't driven a wagon so I can't answer that for you but I would thing they are comparable.

I live in Pittsburgh PA. If you want me to find you a GT wagon wth a manual let me know. I would be glad to help you out.

[c-lo]

they both perform the same, obviously the legacy handles better since it sits lower. there's a few guys on here who've modified the suspensions to their XT's and have been happy. may want to search them out.

[fatbastard]

I don't have first hand knowledge of the XT but I do know my LGT wagon does roll more than I would like so aftermarket sways are in my future. From what I have read they make a dramatic difference in the body roll...they should also do wonders for the XT. Do a search on Cobb and XT...there was a thread recently about the fit or lack there of and how he fixed it...I do recall him given some feedback on how it changed the character of the car.

[c-lo]

I upgraded the rear sway and DEF noticed the difference. H-Tech springs will be arriving at my house next month:icon_bigg

[NHLEG]

'05 5MT wagon here. Toyo Proxes 4's, whiteline sways front and rear, iON springs (drop is too much, but handles better than stock). Corners almost as good as the wife's MCS.

[binaryfarms]

Thanks for all the replys, not sure I'm into having to do sways/shocks on a brand new car to get what I'm looking for, but apparently it's that or used.

 

Somehow I missed this thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/pre-purchase-questions/39414-anyone-know-any-new.html

 

We're in the same boat, all the new cars we found were long gone, and SOA says none available new in the lower 48.

 

I'd love some help Turboman, we've found only a handful of used, and better than half of them are pretty high miles. Again, if anybody spots a new one at a dealer, please drop me a PM.

 

We're going to drive a sedan at lunch to see how different it is from the outback. I can post thoughts after as it appears to be a fairly common question. Still trying to figure out why they would drop the MT in the LGT but keep it in the outback. Maybe we can import one from Canada...

[IwannaSportSedan]

Best of luck, binaryfarms...

 

We have been puzzling about the transmission choices, too.

 

All I can suggest, is perhaps keep an eye on the classifieds here and see if anybody sells a pre-modded 05 MT wagon, or a lowered outback.

 

I am in the same boat as you, as wanting to get a new Subaru soon, and not finding what I want, and just off by a bit, and maybe having to go with a used car. Luckily I am not under time pressure, other than just wanting a Legacy after years of waiting for the conditions to be right...

 

Good luck with the GT manual sedan test drive, and let us know how you like it.

[DukeTrout]

Good luck with your search, binaryfarms. As IWSS mentions, we've also been frustrated with the transmission options for wagons - or lack thereof. The good news is that the Outback XT does amazingly better with different tires. If you live where it snows, you might easily justify a better set of all-seasons or even dedicated winter tires, and get much better handling along with the new shoes. When we switch over from the stock RE92As to dedicated studded winter tires (WinterCats) it changes the demeanor of the OBXT handling dramatically. For the better.

[DukeTrout]

Oh, and other than the space under the car, what is the space difference between an OBXT and a LGT wagon? The specs are the same - 97.4 ft^3 total interior with 32.1 ft^3 cargo.

 

Did I miss something?

EDIT: Nevermind, I now see that it is in comparison to the WRX wagon, not the LGT wagon.

[AK Wagon]

The OBXT and the Legacy GT Wagon handle totally different, you would be happy with the Legacy. By adding a $200.00 rear sway bar it would add to the performance without breaking the bank, effecting the harshness of the ride or voiding the warranty.

The Forrester XT has a similiar ride hight to the OBXT however it is available in a M/T.

There is a 05 white Legacy GT M/T up here (Anchorage, Alaska) if you are looking to do a road trip. It is not a Limited Model has 20K on it and is in very nice shape.

You may also check out E-bay.

Good luck!

[Rommel]

Where in CA are you? If you're in SoCal give Reza Laleh a call he's the internet sales manager at Santa Monica Subaru and also a member here. Check the SoCal threads for more info.

[matt]

- I love the way the WRX wagon drove

A stock LGT doesn't drive like the WRX. The LGT feels less tossable/playful/etc, and you can feel the extra size and weight.

 

 

- she feels better about the Outback XT because it has more space.

Lack of space is one of the main reasons why I didn't buy a WRX. Subaru doesn't do a great job of utilizing the potential space available in a given size of car. The WRX's back seat is just too small - I simply cannot sit behind myself in the WRX, and I'm not all that tall. The wagon's cargo area is also somewhere between a hatchback and a traditional wagon in size, though that was less of an issue for me.

 

 

- I thought the XT had too much body roll

- Does the GT handle better [than the Outback?]

The XT has tons of body roll. It's the price you pay for all that ground clearance and suspension compliance. The LGT is much better on-road, so since you don't actually need the Outback's SUV-style suspension you'll be much better off with the LGT. (From what I've read the Outback is a far better on-road/light off-road compromise than anything else comparably priced, for those who do need the clearance.)

 

But, while the LGT does have much less body roll, dive, and squat than the OBXT, it still has more than it should. It's not Camry loose or anything like that, but it's also far from, say, 3 series performance package composed.

 

 

- the [XT's] steering felt a little numb

[Does the GT] have better steering feedback than the Outback?

The OBXT's steering is somewhat numb. I only drove an OBXT briefly but I don't remember its steering being much worse than the LGT's. Or in other words, the LGT's is, unfortunately, not much better. As far as the steering goes smoothness was definately prioritized over feel and quickness. According to the specs the LGT's steering is slightly quicker than the OBXT's, and it probably has as little more feel, but you're not looking at a night and day difference.

 

To be clear we're not talking about Camry steering here or anything that sloppy and numb. It's just that if steering feel is important to you (it is to me) you'll be disappointed with the LGT's steering. OTOH even the best of the direct competition isn't much better - they're all too refined as well. Heck, even the WRX's steering could use more feel IMO, but it is a good bunch of steps up from the LGT's. (2006 WRX that is - IIRC it changed for 06, but I haven't driven any older ones.)

 

 

- We both want a manual because it's more fun to drive

Damn right manuals are more fun! There's no killjoy like an automatic transmission. That even applies extra to the LGT, because the turbo lag is or at least feels much worse with the automatic.

 

 

- They have the GT in a sedan locally, I assume it would drive pretty much the same as the wagon?

I'm pretty sure, but I haven't actually driven an LGT sedan. The sedan should be a little quieter, mainly in regards to road noise, but I doubt the difference is big. Even in my LGT wagon I can't hear much road noise with the stock tires. (You can partly blame those nice-looking frameless windows for that. They are a tradeoff, though a worthwhile one I think.)

 

 

- Any leads on an 05 GT limited wagon with a manual tranny? We've been searching dealer inventory for 05 leftovers and have a couple leads, but they are so scarce that any help would be appreciated.

Nobody on these boards has found one recently AFAIK. There's a couple entries left in some public and private databases (autotrader and SoA's at least), but word here is that they're all dead ends.

 

To sum things up, the question of WRX or LGT is the classic question of size and refinement or handling and fun.

 

If the WRX isn't actually too small or too ugly for you, I say get it. It is more fun. Otherwise get a used 5MT LGT LTD wagon (that's enough acronyms to make the DoD happy ). If you really don't want to buy used would you consider a 5MT non-limited? There might still be a few of them left. There were a lot more of them left than the limiteds when I was looking. As far as anyone on these boards can tell though there's no new 5MT limiteds left though.

 

I bought my 5MT LGT LTD wagon used largely because I couldn't find a new one left in the color I wanted. (I might have been able to find one somewhere across the country if I'd looked hard enough, but there definately wasn't one within even a thousand miles of me.)

 

Btw, if that sounded harsh on the LGT, it's just because I want to make sure you realize its downsides. It's still a great car and there's still nothing out there that I'd rather have as my only car. At least not anything I can afford or even buy in this country...yes I'm speaking to you RS4 wagon

[Guest]

Thanks for all the replys, not sure I'm into having to do sways/shocks on a brand new car to get what I'm looking for, but apparently it's that or used.

 

Somehow I missed this thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/pre-purchase-questions/39414-anyone-know-any-new.html

 

We're in the same boat, all the new cars we found were long gone, and SOA says none available new in the lower 48.

 

I'd love some help Turboman, we've found only a handful of used, and better than half of them are pretty high miles. Again, if anybody spots a new one at a dealer, please drop me a PM.

 

We're going to drive a sedan at lunch to see how different it is from the outback. I can post thoughts after as it appears to be a fairly common question. Still trying to figure out why they would drop the MT in the LGT but keep it in the outback. Maybe we can import one from Canada...

 

Replacing rear sway bar is trivial, takes half an hour. $190 (for JDM GT) investment and totally worth it. Did it on my car when it had 3k miles.

[jagcars26]

What Matt/\ said.excellent post BTW

[Jon in CT]

They still sell the Legacy GT Limited Wagon with manual transmission in Canada and I expect they will continue to do so for the 2007 model year. A little more expensive up there, though.

[legz]

']They still sell the Legacy GT Limited Wagon with manual transmission in Canada and I expect they will continue to do so for the 2007 model year. A little more expensive up there' date=' though.[/quote']

 

A little bit?!?!? In has 8k little bit more expensive!!

 

That's why I bought mine in NY instead of Montreal!

 

I found it on autotrader.com

 

Good luck!

[binaryfarms]

Thanks for all the help guys, it's great to have so many weigh in with great suggestions. Before this I've spent considerable time on some other car boards (cough, bimmer, cough) that are good, but the amount of input I've gotten on what is really a newbie "search!" question is awesome, and I really appreciate it.

 

WARNING LONG POST AHEAD!

 

In regard to suspension upgrades for the OB, it's not that it's difficult or costly, more that it needs quite a bit of help straight off the lot and the possible warrenty issues. Maybe I'm taking the denied (primarily gearbox) warrenty claims I've seen around too literally. In any case, I was under the impression that to really get what I would want, it would mean struts and probabl springs too, at which point probably better to look for a used LGT wagon instead. However...

 

My opinion on that has changed somewhat after driving the LGT sedan 5spd and comparing it to the OBXT. My opinions pretty much fall right in line with Matt's post, there was enough detail there that I could have almost skipped a trip to the dealer (nice writeup BTW, thanks)

 

Honestly, there was not as big a difference as I expected. Throttle response was noticably better, but that really wasn't an issue for me in the OBXT. Steering feel was almost identical, slightly isolated, a bit vague on center, slow and not as responsive as i would have hoped. Different tires would prolly help, and considering they are brand new all seasons I'm probably feeling quite a bit of tread block squirm as well. There was a little less body roll, but the issues I had with it were still there. Honestly my issue is not how much it rolls -although less would be good. The main issues for me are that it's soft enough that it is difficult to get it to fully take a set before getting all the way into a corner, and that there is some strange occilation/roll in the back end after quick steering input. After a quick flick of the wheel left or right and then back to straight (think emergency lane change kinda thing) it takes a long time for the back end to settle, it's still moving around well after I've straightened the wheel and would be in the other lane. It's a very disconcerting feeling, and I can only assume this is why replacing the rear anti-roll is recommended, and I'm hoping that this would address a lot of the problem for me.

 

As far as a wagon goes, I don't think the non-limited is an option. We've gotten pretty spoiled with leather in our last several cars, and a quick wipe down option for our young son's spitups is a big draw. Also, my wife will pretty much not own a car without a sun roof, and I am right behind on that one. I should have mentioned before that my wife gets most of the day to day use so it's her car that I drive occasionally some nights and weekends. Really I'm just complicating the issue by being nit-picky and by pushing for sporty.

 

So now we just need to decide: 06 WRX, 06 OBXT or 05 LGT. I think we can't go too wrong either way, and Matt pretty much summed up:

 

"the question of WRX or LGT is the classic question of size and refinement or handling and fun. If the WRX isn't actually too small or too ugly for you, I say get it. It is more fun."

 

So first we'll decide yeah or nah on the Rex, then between the OBXT or LGT, which will be as much about wether to spend the time and effort to look used and travel to find what we want.

 

BTW - I'm in Santa Monica and have been dealing with subie SM so far, so if we decide to go with the LGT wagon, I'll give Reza a call for help in locating one. My wife has found a couple on craigs list and Turboman was kind enough to send a few listings as well.

 

Thanks again everyone, will keep you posted.

 

-Mark

[Billy Dagwood]

oh, too bad you need a limited one .. because i just came across this

 

oh well.

[RezaLaleh]

Cool,

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Reza 310-877-0977

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[Garandman]

You have a kid. Your life will not be ruined by buying an XT. Perfection is not available in this price range......

[tantal]

No question that the outback suspension removes the vehicle from consideration as a road car. The GT suspension is actually pretty good, once you delete the stock rubber. Putting on a real tire has changed the character of my car to much closer to the german feel I like so much. Steering feel has appeared out of nowhere, and the car does take a set quickly now. Ultimate cornering speeds have increased noticably, and there is no squirm now in dynamic direction changes. I think the addition of a sway bar is going to finish the job for me.

 

The tires I am now running are the Bridgestoned RE 050A's in 225/45/17 on the saabaru BBS RKs in 17x7

 

G/L with your car - that white one looks a winner.

[binaryfarms]

First off thanks to all for all your comments and recommendations, it really did help. After lots of consideration, we went with an 06 Outback XT limited, 5speed, black on black.

 

The WRX wagon was more fun, but i didn't drive it again because I know it would have made me want it more. The rex had enough space, but honestly it came down to interior comfort. The interior was a lot nicer on the OB, and for some reason the passenger seat in the wrx was really uncomfortable for both of us, partially because the height was not adjustable. Not sure why they make the passenger seat less adjustable then the driver, it's the same on our OBXT.

 

We considered the LGT wagon, but the deal on a new OB which was pretty close in price to a used 05 with year end discounts and all. With the Rex outta the picture, neither the LGT or the OBXT was gonna really get me (stock)handling wise, but who knows, we may end up with a set of coilovers on the outback one day.

 

We're still in break in (painful staying under 4k rpm!) but I think we're really gonna like it, though it is gonna get some mods straight away. We're gonna try the two biggest things people seem to be recommending: the JDM rear bar, and we'll see about new tires/wheels, I'll at least be playing with tire pressures to see what I can do. Wife wants tint, and we're gonna do the corner tint on the headlights and reverse lights and debadge like wayoutwest's car in the OB photo section, which looks great IMO.

 

I'll post more impressions once we're through break in (in the Outback forum, of course). Again thanks for all the help, it's greatly appreciated. This forum was a real find, and I'll be checking back often.