Yesterday was a sad, sad day ...

[Dinglehoser]

I bid farewell to my lovely ABP '05 GT. I recently moved to the city and my gas mileage went from 24 to 16mpg (something about driving it cold twice a day for 12 miles on clogged city streets). That combined with the additional premium for fuel in the city itself made it impractical for me to keep the car. Still, though, it was really sad to be leaving it. I almost shed a tear.

 

I was the instigator of that thread a while back asking for opinions of whether I should go hybrid. Some of your guys' comments made sense; you reminded me that I still love to drive, and for that reason, I eventually decided against going with the new Camry Hybrid I had allocated to me. Instead, I picked up a new '06 Jetta TDI with all of the goodies my LGT didn't have (leather, sunroof, navi). Loved the DSG tranny but by the time I made my decision, there were none left in Washington state. Needless to say, I'm not too put out about being 'stuck' with a manual.

 

Anyway, I've been a Soob fan all my life, and I would be shocked if my next car wasn't a turbodiesel and/or hybrid Legacy. At that point, maybe I'll keep the TDI AND have whatever Subaru ends up calling their new diesel car.

 

Thanks for the times, folks. See you around!

[-TT-]

enjoy the mileage!

[TSiWRX]

+1 to enjoying the mileage. Take care!

[melayout]

+1 on the mileage, but damn :

 

0-60: 11.65

1/4: 18.60 @ 76.2

[hogmeat]

You sold a new car, took a hit of 1000's on depriciation - all to save $1.50 a day on gas?

 

Even a dumbarse like me knows that a $500/yr savings is squat compared to 3,000 loss taken on another new car. Add in the new car is a DOG....well....bad choice.

[panamajack]

Deisel is expensive down here in LA. I don't know how much it is up there, but I agree with hogmeat. You lost on this one. As long as you are happy though. Enjoy the instant torque.

[hondas123]

Ya know...Hogmeat makes a good point.

 

Figure in...

 

Depreciation on LGT

Sales Tax on new car

Excise Tax (if applicable)

 

Takes years to recover loss regardless if new car gets better mileage.

[2Simpletons]

Yeah, the whole, I'm buying a brand new car to save gas thing just makes no sense. They say most hybrids take up to 6-8 years to make up the difference in increased cost in comrison to their gas counterparts.

[jagcars26]

I'm with "the hog" on this one as well,,you took a hit,,,,but hey ya got a new car and your happy,,all that counts.

[93formula]

With exception that the federal government and some state governments give tax breaks for buying hybrids. There are some restrictions but the help with the extra cost.

[Dinglehoser]

You assume too much, Mr. Hogmeat.

 

1. Traded the LGT in for $2100 less than I paid for it 13 months ago. I was not upside down on my loan. This small differential was the only reason why I decided to do it.

2. Total tax was $693.52.

 

So I lost about $2800 over keeping the LGT. That's fine by me. Now:

 

3. My gas bill last month was $418.55, according to Chevron. This is about average.

4. Premium unleaded in Seattle is around $3.45/gal. LGT was averaging about 18mpg overall.

5. #2 Diesel is about $3.05/gal. TDI averaging about 41mpg thus far; most people are getting more.

 

I should therefore save about $250 per month in fuel. I am also going to save about $20 per month in insurance. Between the two, I will make up the difference between the trade-in value of my car and the purchase price of my TDI in about 2 years. This doesn't even consider the following:

 

6. TDI feels much tighter around corners and comfortable on the freeway than the LGT.

7. TDI's interior has leather, sunroof, navi, and far better fit, finish, and materials than my LGT did. My LGT was an unlimited with no options.

8. Numbers mean jack and squat to me. The TDI feels a lot peppier than the LGT in normal situations (i.e. stoplight to stoplight and in traffic without having to wind up the engine). It will feel even better when the VNT17 turbo, injectors, and tuning box I ordered show up and are installed. (In case you're wondering, this evidently does little or nothing to the mileage unless you're constantly romping on it.)

9. I can use biodiesel and not pay some rich sheikh in Saudi fscking Arabia for the luxury of vehicle travel. I'd rather be paying the same amount to a guy in Moses Lake, WA to grow my fuel, thanks. This is a conscience thing that I doubt I could put a price on.

 

And the biggest thing:

10. The TDI simply does not depreciate in this area. I inquired about a bare bones '99.5 Jetta TDI on Craigslist a couple of months ago (no options other than AC and AM/FM/CD). It had sold within an hour of posting, at $18k. The guy probably bought it for $19k, 7 years ago. Old diesel Rabbits have sold for $4k-$6k for a few years now. Had I kept the LGT for 5 years, I might have gotten $12k out of it. The TDI might fetch me $20k in 5 years.

 

There you have it. To tell the truth, I had a lot of reservations about dumping a year-old car, but in almost every possible way, this makes a lot of sense. The only thing I'll really, really miss is AWD and the beautiful paint job, but I've at least got my old Legacy wagon for the snowboarding and hiking trips.

[hogmeat]

If you think you only lost $2100 on the trade in of a 13 month old car - you are deluded.

Dealers play tricks on you - you may have gotten a "great deal" on your trade - but i promise you, you didn't get a "great deal" on the purchase of the TDI.

For example, you could have gotten a TDI at invoice of 20,000; and traded in for 15,000. For a $5,000 cost difference.

 

Or you got the TDI for 23,000 and got 18,000 for your trade...wow! 18,000 for trade? I'm not losing anything!! But yes, it's still $5,000 difference.

 

You got tricked a little bit - but it sounds like you wanted the TDI more to begin with. So your happy. Nothing wrong with getting into something different. I got out of Grand Prix GTP after 16 months - so it's not like I can talk....but i didnt do it under the guise of "gas savings".

 

 

 

Edit: it sounds like more justification when you say you only drive 24 miles a day, (around 40 gallons a month), but give us a baseline of 121 gallons a month?

[mach_six]

Congrats on the TDI...

 

Honestly, I have thought a few times about tradign the Outback in on a TDI, but it isn't available on the Passat in a wagon with AWD.

 

Subaru, are you listening? H6TDI good for 300lb ft in a GT Wagon with AWD...

 

 

Interesting that you say the TDI feels better in corners, I have never driven one but I can say this: What dingbat was put in charge of suspension design at Subaru?

 

Probably the same fool that tells them to use RE-92.

[93formula]

Well if he converts his car to use veg oil which costs around 1000 he can drive for the use of diesel on start up. Some people drive for a few dollars a week and get the equiv of about 250-300 mpg cause they use the free veg oil from the local places that dont want it.

[AirSix]

Make sure to walk your Fast twice a day....

 

I feel you man, this is a stupid city, with stupid gas prices, and stupid streets designed for stupid horses/carriages, and stupid green-haired people on stupid $3500.00 road bikes..

 

I wanted to make my 4th post of all time a doozy...

[Dinglehoser]

Once again, Mr. Hogmeat, you assume too much.

 

* I got the TDI at $750 over invoice, which is about $1000 under MSRP. I don't know of anyone else in this area who has gotten the TDI for less than that. Several other dealerships absolutely refused to budge from MSRP (I walked out of more than a few negotiations). I manipulated the salesman into thinking I was going to pay the whole thing in cash and bargain that way ... and then showed him written trade-in estimates from five other dealerships. Most West Coast people on the TDI, Edmunds, and VWVortex boards are getting their TDIs for MSRP, or at most, $500 under MSRP. I may have a stupid nick on this board, but I'm not dumb. At least not this way.

 

* I work 12 miles from home. However, only an idiot could have deduced that was the only time I ever drove. The reality is that although my gas bill hadn't changed after my move, the number of miles I drove to achieve that bill went down drastically (from ~3k per month to ~2k per month). After careful calculation, it was decided that the time to move on was now.

 

You're right, I am justifying this to myself in a lot of ways, but I wasn't doing it without logical reason. I felt that the TDI was a better car for me (maybe not for you, but I don't really care), and I was willing to deal with a certain amount of initial loss. Even if I'm smoking crack and I end up losing money in the long run, the inherent benefits of my new car over my previous one make it worth the difference EVEN IF I never recoup the difference. Looking at the cold, hard numbers themselves, however, it is obvious that I will make up the difference well within the ownership lifetime of this car, even if fuel prices go down by 50% (and you know they won't). We haven't even factored in the difference in depreciation.

 

Anyway ... sebberry, you're pretty much spot on. If Subaru drops a diesel into an AWD wagon or sedan and figures out how to design a suspension, you bet your ass I'd buy that car. It was a little disheartening to drive the Audi A3 and GLI, and then have to schlep home in my LGT. It was plain distressing that the flabbiest-ass car VW currently makes (my TDI) felt far more stable and composed around corners and at speed than my supposedly 'sport-tuned' LGT ... with only half the number of wheels driven. Some real dampers could have gone a long way, even with the soft stock springs, so I can only assume that the suspension on the Spec B would have been a drastic improvement. A little late for that experiment now, I guess.

[LegGTLT]

Dinglehoser: Sorry to see you leave the Seattle GT scene! You never made it to a meet but you're always welcome! Out of curiousity though, how'd you make out so well on the GT un-limited? Great deal to start with, low mileage, rareity factored in on a good value, amazing trade-in value? I'm impressed by your low loss on the trade-in was wondering what factored into it. Thanks and good luck!

[Dinglehoser]

LegGTLT: It was a combination of a few factors. The LGT was purchased in June '05, right at the tail end of the 2005 production run, and I got an absolutely screaming deal on it. I had high mileage per month, but the total on the odo was average for the '05s (because most of the other '05s have been on the road far longer than mine). I traded in the car at a different branch of the same dealership I purchased from, and had quotes from all manner of different places (including dealerships with cars I only pretended to be interested in). The car itself was in absolutely brand new shape - I was a bit OCD about keeping it clean and well-detailed - and I showed up a few minutes before close when I was ready to buy. My salesman was also a car sale away from his weekly bonus, but even so, he was about as close to zero pressure as a commissioned sales guy can get. We didn't leave the dealership until about 11pm - they closed at 7. All of that combined with how well Subarus generally retain value in our granola-munching corner of the country ended up with a favorable outcome for me.

 

I'd absolutely love to show up at the next meet, so long as you guys won't razz me for having a 16-second car (after mods, anyway). Diesel torque in town and on the freeway is unreal, though. You can give me LGT owner emeritus status or something.

[phuzaxeman]

Ya know...Hogmeat makes a good point.

 

Figure in...

 

Depreciation on LGT

Sales Tax on new car

Excise Tax (if applicable)

 

Takes years to recover loss regardless if new car gets better mileage.

 

not to mention good old VW reliabilty

[Dinglehoser]

Yup, it's all relative. Unbelievable straight line acceleration (which the LGT had) and the ability to destroy ricer egos (which the LGT did) were things I was willing to give up for a car with a nicer interior, better gas mileage, and tighter handling. I'm hoping that the VW quality bug doesn't bite; to be fair, my LGT spent more time in the shop than it should (IC hose blew off twice, one bad wheel bearing, one blown damper, driver side window switchpack failed, loud dash rattling, and a bad alternator, all fixed under warranty), so I'm hopeful that karma will grant me a good VW after my less-than-good Subaru.

[outahere]

..........so I'm hopeful that karma will grant me a good VW after my less-than-good Subaru.

 

If you look at the quality reports at JD Powers and Consumer Reports, VW is usually at the very bottom of the pack, especially in regards to electrical glitches. But the VW line does have some innovative engineering and very nice interiors, and a lot of features for the price.

[iyalla]

Good for you on your purchase. I think a lot of people will be doing the math like you did in the coming years. The pschological impact alone of not watching that fuel guage go down so fast was probably worth it even if you got the math wrong

 

I here you about the suspension on even the base german cars. There is something to be said about building cars in a country that has triple digit speed autobahns

 

Good luck on the quality and maybe you'll come back when Subaru gets a clue.

[godwhomismike]

Congrats on the TDI. I have a lot of respect for diesels and hope to start seeing more of them on the roads. It's sad that our laws do all they can to keep them off the roads. I've been very impressed with the TDI Jetta since I read a recent article in AutoWeek and it got far better highway mileage than all the hybrids they were testing. I think they averaged 49 mpg highway and said they had a bit of a lead foot on the highway.

 

Do you have any pics? What options?

 

Goodluck with it.

 

 

- Mike

 

 

btw... I am only averaging 13.3 mpg with my Legacy. :lol:

 

 

.

[bdisco]

See Ya.

http://www.tdiclub.com/

[LIZARD]

Congrats on the TDI. I have a lot of respect for diesels and hope to start seeing more of them on the roads.

.

 

I too have great respect for diesels, but all of them have 10-18 really big wheels on them!! Best of luck w/the TDi, enjoy the mileage! I went for mileage too when I switched from GMC(avg. 12mpg) to LeggyGT(avg.[for me] 23.1mpg.) I personally like the Jetta's look and feel and was almost gonna go w/that 'cept for the AWD and 250/250:icon_bigg !!

 

peace.