Am I turning into an old man? (Thinking about selling the LGT for ...)

[wukindada]

Ok I drive between 12-15K per year...let's use the 15 for this example.

 

Say gas prices rose by .50 & stayed there forever...never going down (which it does) just staying @ the 3.20 gal for 93 oct.

 

Here is what you save in a year....Let's say you a re a "Spirited" LGT driver

you Avg.....21.5mpg.

 

Yearly fuel cost @ 2.70 gal 1,882.00

@ 3.20 gal 2,234.00

 

Now if you are a fuel meiser go with the AP econ map, say now you have a Avg Mpg of......27mpg.

 

Same fuel cost........1,501.00

1,780.00

 

Trendy Camry Hybrid **get ready to pay that dealer premium;)**

I have hears it varies 3-5k......

 

Use 32K as a base for the 07XLE version...."Loaded"

 

Do not forget to add in that premium!

 

Since the "hybrid only requires 89oct youll be saving $$ there.

 

 

Say the "Hybrid" gets 35mpg;)

 

Fuel cost for 15k yr...........2.60 gal 1,116.00

3.10 gal 1,329.00

 

So your big savings over the LGT.....set up with the Econ map is just under 400.00 a year.

 

Hope you plan on keeping it for @ least 8 yrs to get your $ out of it. Oh wait.........how much are those batteries to replace:rolleyes:

[LIZARD]

Geyser.

[cole46_51]

Just get an older car like a 96 Honda accord or civic, something that is reliable and old, but not so old that you will have to fix something on it every month. Use that for work and stuff. And keep the LGT and use it for weekends, trips, etc... Tell your insurance that the other car is now your primary car and your insurance will go down as well.

 

As far as your gas millage, gezzzzzz, you must be flooring it every time, with the A/C on full blast with the windows down.....and the trunk full:icon_bigg I get 24/25 highway and 21-23 city, depending on how I drive. And trust me, I don't baby it, just ask my girlfriend, and her favorite part of the car.....the passenger door handle:lol:

 

But if you do get rid of it, I'll be sure to wave hi as I'm flying by you:D

[StringFellow]

Ok I drive between 12-15K per year...let's use the 15 for this example.

 

Say gas prices rose by .50 & stayed there forever...never going down (which it does) just staying @ the 3.20 gal for 93 oct.

 

Here is what you save in a year....Let's say you a re a "Spirited" LGT driver

you Avg.....21.5mpg.

 

Yearly fuel cost @ 2.70 gal 1,882.00

@ 3.20 gal 2,234.00

 

Now if you are a fuel meiser go with the AP econ map, say now you have a Avg Mpg of......27mpg.

 

Same fuel cost........1,501.00

1,780.00

 

Trendy Camry Hybrid **get ready to pay that dealer premium;)**

I have hears it varies 3-5k......

 

Use 32K as a base for the 07XLE version...."Loaded"

 

Do not forget to add in that premium!

 

Since the "hybrid only requires 89oct youll be saving $$ there.

 

 

Say the "Hybrid" gets 35mpg;)

 

Fuel cost for 15k yr...........2.60 gal 1,116.00

3.10 gal 1,329.00

 

So your big savings over the LGT.....set up with the Econ map is just under 400.00 a year.

 

Hope you plan on keeping it for @ least 8 yrs to get your $ out of it. Oh wait.........how much are those batteries to replace:rolleyes:

You are so right! People just think the Hybrids will save them money. Besides the gas prices you mentioned, you can't forget the maintenance aspect of owning a hybrid. I read an article that stated that most hybrids have somewhere between 25% and 35% more moving parts (more parts = potential for more problems). And the non-hybrid Camrys might be reliable, but the hybrids are another beast with new possible problems.

 

If you are forced to buy a new car, hybrids might be the way to go, but due to the current price preminums and battery replacements after 5-8 years, it just isn't worth it.

 

Hybrids aren't the future. They still use gas, they still don't get great gas mileage (35mpg??? come on! ), and they have expensive maintenance items as the car gets older. You think replacing a timing belt is expensive, imagine that 60K mile service with a battery replacemen?!?!?!

 

Alternate fuel vehicles are what I am waiting for. Look at Brazil....they have cars that run gas, ethenol or a mixture. Diesel is another option.

 

Until we vote out government representivies favoring oil companies, nothing will change!

 

-S

[gfxdave99]

After reading the various thoughts so far in the thread I think it would be an unwise decision.

 

Also you will be looking forward to the cornering of a 1992 caddy deville with the camry.

[MassiveAttack]

I just wish I could get one of those smart car diesels they sell up there in Canada land. I hear they get like 70 or 80MPG. Now there would be some cash savings. Plus if push comes to shove you can always convert any diesel over to biodeisel and run it on kitchen grease. Screw big oil!

[gfxdave99]

I just wish I could get one of those smart car diesels they sell up there in Canada land. I hear they get like 70 or 80MPG. Now there would be some cash savings. Plus if push comes to shove you can always convert any diesel over to biodeisel and run it on kitchen grease. Screw big oil!

 

Well with them allowing smaller cars like the new honda fit into the counrty i think we are getting closer to seing smart car sized cars in the US.

[Dinglehoser]

Ok I drive between 12-15K per year...let's use the 15 for this example.

 

Say gas prices rose by .50 & stayed there forever...never going down (which it does) just staying @ the 3.20 gal for 93 oct.

 

Here is what you save in a year....Let's say you a re a "Spirited" LGT driver

you Avg.....21.5mpg.

 

Yearly fuel cost @ 2.70 gal 1,882.00

@ 3.20 gal 2,234.00

 

Now if you are a fuel meiser go with the AP econ map, say now you have a Avg Mpg of......27mpg.

 

Same fuel cost........1,501.00

1,780.00

 

Trendy Camry Hybrid **get ready to pay that dealer premium;)**

I have hears it varies 3-5k......

 

Use 32K as a base for the 07XLE version...."Loaded"

 

Do not forget to add in that premium!

 

Since the "hybrid only requires 89oct youll be saving $$ there.

 

 

Say the "Hybrid" gets 35mpg;)

 

Fuel cost for 15k yr...........2.60 gal 1,116.00

3.10 gal 1,329.00

 

So your big savings over the LGT.....set up with the Econ map is just under 400.00 a year.

 

Hope you plan on keeping it for @ least 8 yrs to get your $ out of it. Oh wait.........how much are those batteries to replace:rolleyes:

 

I have to respond to this post - while insightful, it has a little bit of misinformation that needs to be addressed.

 

1. If 92oct went up by $0.50 and stayed there, I'd be looking at about $3.55/gal. It won't stay there - it will keep going up, at least that's what almost every economist thinks. Most think we've already hit peak oil.

 

2. Nearly all of my driving is now in the city, stop and go for a block or two at a time. I have tried the economy map and have managed 17mpg on a tank as opposed to my customary 15-16. I do NOT drive like a bat out of hell - I drive my damned LGT like a minivan or a Buick. I often shift at about 2500 RPM and use less than 1/2 throttle. The LGT's highway mileage is fine, but it's not the issue, since it hardly ever finds its way to the freeway anymore.

 

2a. There isn't anything wrong with my car - in other types of traffic, I can manage 18-19mpg in the suburban traffic, and I can easily swing 26-27 on the freeway. But when you're stopping and going every 100 feet, there isn't much you can do with the mileage regardless of how you drive.

 

3. Toyota of Seattle has firmly established that they will not charge over MSRP for the vehicle. The price they quoted me for a loaded hybrid was $29,200, with all options. A loaded 4-cylinder XLE can be built at toyota.com for $28,455.

 

4. The hybrid requires 87 oct and not 89 oct, which for whatever reason seems to be $0.30/gal (or more) cheaper than 92 oct in this area.

 

5. I've done the math, and I would recoup the cost of the hybrid over the LGT by fuel savings alone in a little over 2 years at my current consumption rates.

 

6. All hybrid-related components, including battery and hybrid-specific drivetrain parts, are required by my state to carry a full 15-year, 100,000 mile warranty. Maintenance of the parts beyond the hybrid stuff is covered under the standard Toyota warranty. It is a complete non-issue, given that I don't usually keep a car beyond the end of its powertrain warranty.

 

7. Road and Track did a test in their May '06 issue, and in the conditions to which my car is subjected, the Camry Hybrid managed over 46mpg (their PCH leg). Their full test average for the car was over 37mpg, including a climb over Cajon Pass and a long freeway trip, as well as long periods not moving in traffic.

 

8. The long and short of it is that I will be saving something approaching 60% on fuel costs with the car switch.

 

So while there is indeed a premium over my LGT, there isn't really one over the other Camrys. The price slots in between the 4-cyl and 6-cyl XLE, and so does the performance. Pretty much all of the arguments I've seen against the Camry Hybrid can be summarized as follows:

 

1. Price premium over non-hybrid or LGT.

2. Cost of battery replacement or hybrid component maintenance.

3. Camrys are slow and handle like pigs.

 

For me, 1 and 2 are moot points. The only downside I'd have along those lines is the hassle of selling my LGT. The price of gas keeps going up, so the savings will keeping getting larger.

 

Now, argument 3 is an interesting one. The question becomes how much I am giving up, and how much I am willing to give up. In the holistic sense, I wouldn't be giving up as much as people seem to think. I test drove a 4-cyl LE and came away VERY surprised. The steering ratio wasn't as quick as that of the LGT, but it held corners and dealt with quick transitions nearly as well as the stock LGT does. There is a little more body lean, but the shock damping is WAY better and the car actually feels more planted to the ground than my LGT. Power was surprisingly adequate, but not really spectacular. The hybrid apparently addresses this nicely. I came away thinking that I wouldn't be giving up much more than the ability to claw around a corner at full throttle (I _will_ miss AWD for that) and a modicum of acceleration, but the opportunities to exploit them occur so infrequently that the prospect of saving buckets of money and only visiting the fuel pump twice a month overwhelm them. This new Camry isn't as much of a big floppy donkey dick as the Camrys of yore; in fact, it's actually satisfying to drive.

 

Even with all of that purported ra-ra-go-hybrids-yay crap, I'm still on the fence. I just want to put both sides in the most accurate light instead of comparing misinformation with misinformation.

[j0ebert]

You've already sold yourself on the Toyota, so you might as well go for. I sure as wouldn't mind only going for gas twice a month, but I can't drop the Legacy.

You still never addressed the beater car option, but if you are turning into an old man, you probably don't want to be driving a beater, so it's understandable. The new Camry does look damn good.

[turboWagon]

I have heard a lot talk about the hidden cost of the battery replacement but I have not yet heard any real live story on the battery failure. The battery now cost around 2-3k to replace but by the time it failed (5-10 or never … come on it's a Toyota). The battery price will probably drop significantly.

I think Toyota Camry is one of the best cars to buy from the financial aspect.

The only draw back is…….it’s sooooooooooooooooooo boring to drive...zzzzz

[IwannaSportSedan]

there are still cost associated with the volatile chemicals that are involved with manufacture and disposal of high-capacity batterys. Even if the manufacturing cost goes down a bit, it is still not going to go drastically down, and the government regulates HAZMAT disposal, meaning that costs of disposal will probably go up, not down. How much environmental impact does a bunch of hazardous material have on the environment, versus a few airborne hydrocarbons, and some water and CO2 that the environment can much more easily re-assimilate...

 

not to mention the High-current DC lines that make hybrid and electric cars comparatively more complex and difficult to work on, and even more difficult to extracate people from in the event of an accident. Who knows about longevity issues with the electrical and control systems?

 

I am not sold, needless to say.

[DukeTrout]

I'm joining the discussion late, but I will chime in on something that hasn't been mentioned yet. Battery chemistry.

 

The current generation of hybrids use NiMH batteries, which are 1980s technology. They are nasty on the environment when they have to be disposed of, and they have terrible charge leakage and current output. You wouldn't consider buying a laptop with a NiMH battery - why on earth would you buy a car with one?

 

One of the reasons Toyota is so enamored of FHI is that they've figured out how to scale up a high-current-output LiMnO2 battery to the size needed for a hybrid vehicle. The difference between NiMH and LiMnO2 in performance, reliability, longevity, and disposal is HUGE.

 

Let's put it this way - in an application where the battery is a critical component...oh, say, pacemakers and implantable defibrillators...using NiMH would be criminal. Lithium is the only option, either in low current (Lithium Iodide), medium current (Lithium Carbon Monoflouride), or high current (Lithium Vanadium Pentoxide or Lithium Manganese Dioxide).

 

My $0.02 is, don't go hybrid until they move to Lithium batteries.

[Ed_T]

I read somewhere the 08's will have newer technology hybrid stuffings.

 

Might be worth the wait.

 

I'd rather go for turbo-diesel.

[MangoGT]

how many people here actually get 15mpg though??!!!

 

i might drive a little more conservitavely than some, but i'm no grandma behind the wheel either and I easily get 23mpg, usually closer to 25mpg.

 

i think going easier on the pedal and driving less is a smarter idea, and will save you more money than going out and buying a new car at hybrid permium prices.

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26881&highlight=Fuel+Mileage

[jweller]

If you are buying a car to save money, buy a 3 - 5 year old camry, not a new hybrid. the gas savings isn't enough to overcome the depreciation hit you'll take the minute youdrive it off of the lot.

[tantal]

Dingle,

 

In my mind this thread is spending a lot of time talking about pros and cons, but none of this is really necessary =)

 

The question is, do you care so much about fuel economy that you are willing to give up a great driving car for the automotive equivalent of a plain white refrigerator? Do you care about how your car handles and drives or not?

 

If not, get the hybrid camry, if so, forget about it!

 

QED, and best of luck with your decision!! However we'll probably miss you if you go . . . .

[pillboy]

plain white refrigerator

 

Kenmore FTW!

[SC GT]

Just try not to get too smug.

 

http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/1002/1002_2_dad_smelling_himself.jpg

 

http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/1002/1002_2_dad_smelling_himself2.jpg