Am I turning into an old man? (Thinking about selling the LGT for ...)

[gt_ltd]

grandpa

[panamajack]

old fart.

Good for youuuu!

 

Hybrid = meh

I dont drive in the city so..... Even if I did there aren't any exciting hybrids out there that are affordable, so whats the point?

[05garnet_ltd_gt]

My Chem teacher drives a Prius. She said the IRS is giving a $3000 credit for people who buy hybrids. Not a deduction, a Credit! That means if you owe the IRS $3000, you owe them nothing if you bought a hybrid. Don't know if it is for specific models. Worth looking into.

 

Me personally, I drive 100 miles daily for work. I wish I could get better gas mileage, but the I get with the Legacy is worth it.

[LongHiway]

The airport (limo) service we use at work drives a fleet of Priuss (what's the plural of Prius?). On the Hi-way watching the in-dash computer I've seen 44 MPG and the car cruises nicely at 65 to 75 MPH.

 

Supposedly, Toyo warranties the battery for 10 yrs, 100 K and it's not pro-rated / depreciated. Something to check. The limo service has not had significant mechanical problems with constant driving (that they admit to me) for 5 + years.

 

If you hold a car for a long time I think you'll see a payback.

 

As you figgered, monthly cash flow sometimes offsets spending (financing?) big money.

[Scotty]

If you live and work in a city, might as well ride a bicycle. Zero gas bill. Many large companies offer incentives to do that also. There's also health and productivity benefits from doing that. If my work place wasn't 72 miles and 2700 feet elevation away, I would be riding my bike.

 

The Camry and Accord hybrids are not designed for pure economy. Drive them hard and your gas mileage will still suck, but better than a LGT in the city.

[SC GT]

how many people here actually get 15mpg though??!!!

That would be me. But my driving habits consist of starting my car up in the morning, driving stop and go for two miles to drop my son off at school, then driving another two miles in stop and go traffic to work. Leave work, drive two miles in stop and go traffic to home. I got much worse than usual mileage on every car I've driven since we've moved to this home. The thing is, this type of driving would actually get me better mileage with a hybrid.

 

I don't drive enough miles per month for me to care too much about my lousy MPG, so I wouldn't think of trading my LGT to get a TCH. But when the LGT's time comes, if I still have the same driving pattern, I'm going to take a good look at the hybrids.

[rts]

2007 Camry Hybrid. Yes, that's right ... an old hippie man, tree-huggin' hybrid. I'm already on a waiting list, but it's a list without attached obligations.

 

I love the speed, but it's gotten me into so much trouble over the past year (three tickets, all of which I've subsequently gotten out of) that I'm starting to question the wisdom of a chump like myself owning a car with this much power. Another thing is that since I've moved to the city and my work commute is completely over surface streets, I'm getting about 15-16mpg, even when I'm driving like a grandpa. Paying $46 to fill up (that number goes up each time I visit the gas station) after every 225 miles is getting old really fast. The novelty of getting revved on by every forking Civic and Integra in the city wore off in a big hurry when I realized that each time I mashed the gas, dollar bills went flying out of my pocket ... although I have to admit, I was annoyed enough yesterday morning that I pulled a 5500rpm launch on this pimply kid in a farting Civic hatch, and was through three stop lights before he had even reached the first one.

 

Anyway, all by way of saying, am I alone in thinking like this? I almost feel like going the Camry Hybrid route is a tacit admission that I want to grow up. The interior seems a lot more tightly assembled and with better materials than the LGT ... after 20,500 miles, my 2005 LGT rattles more than my mother's 1998 Volvo S70 with 110,000 miles. Any thoughts for or against?

 

(FWIW, journalists and insiders that have actually tested the TCH instead of just parroting Toyota's numbers have measured its 0-60 in the 7.3-7.6s range, 1/4 in 15.6-16.0, and real life combined gas mileage to be around 36-39mpg, so it's not as much of a slug and fuel optimist as you might suspect. Toyota's numbers are 8.9s 0-60, 43/37mpg city/hwy.)

 

Initial cost of the hybrid. High. Maintenance cost. High. Battery replacement, crazy high which may well ruin future value. Who's going to want to buy a car that needs battery replacements? Will the batteries last as long as claimed. Did the Duracell Bunny jump ship?. You could buy a lot of gas for what it will cost to get out of the LGT and into the hybrid not to mention the risk of it's future value.

[Dinglehoser]

Scotty: I spend a lot of time on a bike ... it's just that time isn't spent cycling to work. I often have obligations after work that would make bike commuting a hassle on those days. However, you are right - I do need to make a more concerted effort to use my bike for commuting on the days when I don't really need my car. I sometimes take the bus, but there isn't a reliable bus route home (though there is a direct one to work).

Now that the rain is becoming less frequent, I'm out of excuses.

 

I guess it's just that the excitement of driving a fast car in a fast manner has worn off to the point that practicality has taken over my thinking. When I bought the car, premium fuel was $1.90 per gallon, and fuel costs weren't a big deal. It's now $3.05, and it seems that every time I pass by, it's goes up by a few cents. If it keeps inching up, at what point does a lower cost of operation trump the mental benefits of hedonistic acceleration? It's a dilemma that seems to loom larger every time I drive by the pump.

[Dinglehoser]

Initial cost of the hybrid. High. Maintenance cost. High. Battery replacement, crazy high which may well ruin future value. Who's going to want to buy a car that needs battery replacements? Will the batteries last as long as claimed. Did the Duracell Bunny jump ship?. You could buy a lot of gas for what it will cost to get out of the LGT and into the hybrid not to mention the risk of it's future value.

 

The initial cost of this particular hybrid is hardly different from the identical non-hybrid version of the same car. The maintenance cost and battery replacement issue would be insignificant, as all hybrid-related equipment and functionality is covered for 15 years and 100,000 miles in my state; the other internal components are more or less standard Toyota fare, so I fail to see how they would cause much of a maintenance problem.

 

Plenty of people seem to want to buy cars that require battery replacements. Last I checked, there was a waiting list for just about every hybrid Toyota on the market, and one- or two-year-old examples of the same vehicles are being sold for prices approaching their original MSRP.

 

There is the valid point of the cost difference between the used LGT and new TCH. By my calculations, I'd have to keep the car for about 2.5 years to recoup the difference in fuel cost. I would expect to keep the car longer than that.

[j0ebert]

Look into buying a complete beater for like $1000. Make your Legacy a secondary vehicle and the beater liability only. If it works the way I planned, you should definately see a savings on the insuance side, hopefully on the gas side, and you will likely avoid the drag races on the way to work. One thing is for sure, I wont be getting rid of the Legacy anytime soon.

[05garnet_ltd_gt]

^+1 great idea

[Aczwild]

Why dont you just wait for the 2008 Subaru hybrid? AWD and a turbo vehicle too

[Dinglehoser]

That would be me. But my driving habits consist of starting my car up in the morning, driving stop and go for two miles to drop my son off at school, then driving another two miles in stop and go traffic to work. Leave work, drive two miles in stop and go traffic to home. I got much worse than usual mileage on every car I've driven since we've moved to this home. The thing is, this type of driving would actually get me better mileage with a hybrid.

 

I don't drive enough miles per month for me to care too much about my lousy MPG, so I wouldn't think of trading my LGT to get a TCH. But when the LGT's time comes, if I still have the same driving pattern, I'm going to take a good look at the hybrids.

 

Bingo, and bingo. I now drive about 25-30 miles per day on surface streets, entirely stop and go and under 30 mph. While this sort of driving is destroying my poor LGT's fuel mileage, I can see a scenario where a hybrid like the TCH might get a hojillion miles per gallon, maybe even better than EPA, because the only time the engine would ever turn on would be during my infrequent freeway drives (I drive roughly 1500 miles per month these days; last month's example given far above is a little atypical. The split is about 70% city, 30% freeway ... it was the other way around for the first 90% of my LGT's life. I just moved to Seattle a month and a half ago).

[Scotty]

Try riding like a bike messenger and you can have a lot of fun and be scared sh_tless while going 20 mph. Don't ever try to follow a bike messenger. I tried that once. It's still scary riding down the center of the road on a weekend in San Francisco going the wrong way on a one way street.

[tantal]

how many people here actually get 15mpg though??!!!

 

i might drive a little more conservitavely than some, but i'm no grandma behind the wheel either and I easily get 23mpg, usually closer to 25mpg.

 

 

 

 

i think going easier on the pedal and driving less is a smarter idea, and will save you more money than going out and buying a new car at hybrid permium prices.

 

Same here. On long highway trips avg speed of 80 (southwest) I get a good 26.5 or so mpg.

[tantal]

Well, the price isn't so outrageous. Our local dealer is selling them at MSRP (which is unusual given that it's so highly sought after), and I'm 15th on the waiting list so it shouldn't be all that long. With leather, navigation, and sunroof, the total price will be $29200 according to the dealer.

 

While it's true that I won't be making up the price difference in gas savings any time soon (and I have no illusions about this), the change in my monthly outlay goes down by quite a bit after you factor in insurance costs. Here's how it breaks down:

 

LGT monthly payment: $380

LGT insurance, per month: $125

LGT fuel costs (last month): $464

Total: $969 per month

 

TCH monthly payment: $430 (roughly)

TCH insurance, per month: $90

TCH fuel costs (same usage as above): $249

Total: $769 per month

 

I am slightly ahead in payments, so I don't have to really worry about having to carry over anything from LGT's loan.

 

Also consider that at least for the forseeable future, the resale value of the TCH will likely be much better than that of the LGT ... it's 1) a Toyota, and 2) a hybrid. So by the time I turn around sell the car in 3 or 4 years, I will likely get back far more of my initial outlay with the TCH than if I sat on the LGT for that long. I won't be losing all that much on my LGT if I sold it now as I got it for a ridiculous deal (at market value, I'll probably be have lost about $1,000 in depreciation from purchase price after a year and 20,500 miles of use).

 

I dunno, I'm still thinking hard about it. There's plenty of time for me to make up my mind ... so let the debate continue.

 

Wow. I sure hope you like that thing, but afaic, that is a pretty crappy deal to give up your LGT for that car at that price. No thanks.

[andrew_j]

Camry's are

 

b o r i n g

 

Even the "sporty" model (SE) is a joke. No matter what the 0-60 time is Toyota knows how to suck the personality and driving experience out of a car.

 

However if that is what you want go for it!

[rts]

The initial cost of this particular hybrid is hardly different from the identical non-hybrid version of the same car. The maintenance cost and battery replacement issue would be insignificant, as all hybrid-related equipment and functionality is covered for 15 years and 100,000 miles in my state; the other internal components are more or less standard Toyota fare, so I fail to see how they would cause much of a maintenance problem.

 

Plenty of people seem to want to buy cars that require battery replacements. Last I checked, there was a waiting list for just about every hybrid Toyota on the market, and one- or two-year-old examples of the same vehicles are being sold for prices approaching their original MSRP.

 

There is the valid point of the cost difference between the used LGT and new TCH. By my calculations, I'd have to keep the car for about 2.5 years to recoup the difference in fuel cost. I would expect to keep the car longer than that.

I stand corrected on my assumptions. It seems a lot of the perceived negatives are not necessarily the case. I admit three dollar gas is a pretty good incentive. Just wait until after the next hurricane!! When the oil companies have another excuse to add to already staggering profits. Might make the choice easier. Good luck with your decision.

[alaskanwill]

Jeez, I almost forgot to think about the $2300 tax credit ... that has a little weight as well. The difference in price after that credit between my LGT on the used market and the TCH at MSRP is about $6500. More importantly, the difference between the hybrid and 4-cylinder Camry at the same equipment level is a whopping $855 at MSRP. Considering that the hybrid is much faster than the 4-cylinder version and gets far better fuel mileage, the hybrid premium doesn't seem to be as big as it used to be ...

 

According to Edmunds, the Hybrid is equipped like the LE. Difference in MSRP per Toyota's website between these 2 models is $6,550.00.

[pillboy]

I just handed-down my '94 Camry to my step-daughter after driving it for the past 6+ years. It is an appliance. No soul, no fun, no passion. Good, dependable transportation, but that is all I can say for it. It served its purpose at the time, but I needed something (the GT) to improve my circulation and make me feel alive again (in an automotive sense). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I gotta say I do not like the new Camry...or the Lexuseseses, or most BMWs (not that I can afford them anyway) or the new Civic. I understand the fuel mileage deal though, and I would probably have to go with a Mazda 3. Just not that many good looking small cars IMO. Good luck with whatever you decide on.

[Dinglehoser]

It's actually equipped most like the 4cyl XLE according to the Toyota literature. In fact, it's more well equipped than the 4cyl XLE in that it has all of the stability/traction control stuff standard. Once you match up the equipment levels of the hybrid as I've got it configured and the 4-cyl XLE, the total difference comes out to $855. I don't know how Edmunds got their info.

 

Ack, I just sound like I'm trying to talk myself into it. One moment, I can't bear to think about parting with my GT, but the next, I'm completely enamored of the idea. Gaaarrg ...

[wukindada]

Keep the LGT & run the COBB econ map....

 

27-29hwy......if that is what you are looking for.

 

Filled up this morning & gave the car a real good run thinking of this thread. That smell of sulfer when I stopped the car never smelled so good:)

 

 

Oh.....wait.....the ozone layer is vanishing........the trees......the rainforest......our animals.....think of our children......

 

"Daddy....make the car go fast again"............PRICELESS!

[iyalla]

Get a 2.5i!

Hey I'm averaging 27mpg combined city/hwy and driving anyway I please.

 

This summer is going to be soooo scary watching the hurricanes. Before it was just something that happened "over there", now if one gets into the Gulf we could see well above $3 and the forecast is for the most active hurricane season ever. YOU'RE NOT GETTING OLD, YOU'RE GETTING SANE

[RobY]

just put camry badges on the back of the car.

[LongHiway]

A few posters back mentioned tax credits, which would make your payback even faster. For what you want, it just may be a good solution.

And, not to steal the thread, anyone have knowledge about how stock Subarus handle ethanol? My generalization is, lower cost, lower mileage, probably higher car maintenace with more water produced as a combustion byproduct. And of course, all for questionable economic (above) and environmental gains.

The reason? I can see the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts getting altruistic again, and mandating some sort of use - 'course the legislature would exempt themselves, might even wholesale themselves regular gas becuase they are well, (um) vital to the functioning of its citizens. A few of you others live in states with a similar philosophy.