Xenonk Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Thanks Keefe, Please let us know the outcome of yr findings as Im sure Im not the only one really interested. For me I think DBA (also being the hometown hero) will be the rotors I get. I would get drilled I think. Ive never heard of REAL rotors cracking that are cast. Put it this way, I dont hear of too many GT2 or GT3 exploding because there rotors were drilled. I think a lot of guys go for cheap rubbish, hence they crack and then they all say drilled is rubbish, I find that statement RUBBISH. Anyway I think drilled DBA Rotors with STi SSBL's RedDot Brake Fluid and Keefe yr recommendation for Endless Pads..... sounds like a good combo but will be interested to see if u build on this from yr upcoming tests. All the best and as always greatly appreciated. Ada///M. yes, there is DEFINITELY a difference in how the holes are made for cross drilled. We all have to ask ourselves sometimes "where and how did technology evolve?" If you really think about it based on "mass is good for a 1-piece rotor", why bother having vented discs? Remember back in the day when innovation was the key of making it or breaking it.. did it ever occur that someone out there one day just thought "hey, why dont we hollow out the rotor and make it 'vented' so that it can dissapate heat better?" I bet you someone probably said "you gotta be crazy, why would anyone want to hollow out a brake rotor?! it's going to make it weak".. and here we are today, with vented rotors.. same goes for drilled rotors.. sure it saves weight, it creates even more room for heat dissapation, and allow more venting.. then someone comes out and say "you are nuts?" sure enough, race cars use them for GT racing.. dont even get me started with today using thicker disc sections, shorter rib structures, curved vanes and all... it all comes down to evolution of technology and it's done by innovation (without it, technology, research and development would be boring and suck)... Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Drilled is for looks, doesn't do squat. so why does Brembo and many other companies still produce them? What's the logic in producing that doesnt work? Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 casue it looks hot Drilled reduces a fair amount of surface area for braking slotted retains the majority of the surface area and still lets the gasses escape My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 casue it looks hot Exactly. People will buy them. That is why they make em. It is the same reason COBB is making cold air intakes when they know it messes up your idle. I had a guy down at COBB tell me himself that the only reason they are making it is because people will buy it. Same thing on their big brake kit. Trey had it on his car for the SEMA show last year and then he took it off because he liked the stock LGT brakes better. I'm not making that up either. One of the techs at COBB told me all of this when I was checking out their shop last spring. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 ^ doesnt that constitute rice? buying something that doesnt do squat for the car? Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCDetails Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Not necessarily. Consider it an 'appearance upgrade' instead of a performance upgrade. Rice is only defined as something tacky that doesn't do squat for the car. _________________________________________ “Cleanliness becomes more important as godliness becomes more unlikely.” O C D E T A I L S . C O M OCDETAILS BLOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepFreeze2 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 +1 for the definition of rice, IMO. Some things do improve the visual appeal with out adding anyting/much along the line of a tangible performance increase. IBalteezataillightsgiveyou20hp. YA RLY!!! Home of +2500 useless posts!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 I have no idea where u guys get drilled as being anything other than performance. From F1 to GT3 Racing to the Street. AMG and BMW M runs them and I wouldnt consider them R1ce at all.... Ada///M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Didn't say drilled was rice. Just said they mostly asthetic AMG and M are performance and Asthetic upgrades to teh cars My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 On this subject we will agree to disagree.Personally I see this as a performance mod and you see it as asthetic.I suppose there is +'s & -'s for agruements.Ada///M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwinn Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 F1 and GT3 cars run drilled rotors because they don't need long term reliability (only for 1 race). And, they run them for weight reduction.. every little bit helps on those levels of performance and racing. For normal people, drilled is pointless other than for looks. A good article on the matter: http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.html Bottom line - flat rotors, or at most slotted. Personally, I'll stick to flats any day, with quality pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iyalla Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 For street I would go flat or drilled only for the noise issue. Slotted gets a little noisy, I have them on my Benz and they are almost worn and they get more and more noisy the closer they get to wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 ^ it's a good indicator to get new brakes.. can't say the car didnt have anything built-in to warn ya. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elpete77 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 You're all wrong. Rice (n): the starcy seed or grain of an annual . . . oh nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 You're all wrong. Rice (n): the starcy seed or grain of an annual . . . oh nevermind. Oh I could so hear a rant/vent coming on LOL.... Ada///M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_phil Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 F1 and GT3 cars run drilled rotors... Don't know about GT3, but F1 uses carbon brake discs, and they are not drilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Stock FTW. No need for either if it's a street car. Don't go by what a race car has, it is exactly what it is.....a race car. They have the money/time to be swapping discs and pads left and right. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 so why does Brembo and many other companies still produce them? What's the logic in producing that doesnt work? Making money perhaps? OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Thanks Keefe, Please let us know the outcome of yr findings as Im sure Im not the only one really interested. For me I think DBA (also being the hometown hero) will be the rotors I get. I would get drilled I think. Ive never heard of REAL rotors cracking that are cast. Put it this way, I dont hear of too many GT2 or GT3 exploding because there rotors were drilled. I think a lot of guys go for cheap rubbish, hence they crack and then they all say drilled is rubbish, I find that statement RUBBISH. Anyway I think drilled DBA Rotors with STi SSBL's RedDot Brake Fluid and Keefe yr recommendation for Endless Pads..... sounds like a good combo but will be interested to see if u build on this from yr upcoming tests. All the best and as always greatly appreciated. Ada///M. Actually, I have seen a few GT2/3s with cracked, drilled rotors. There are a few things to remember here... (and Im talking about standard brake setups, not Racing Brake's stuff as they do have some nice technology that makes a "general" discussion harder). 1) In a brake system, you want as much MASS as possible to absorb heat. Then you want that heat to be dissipated before your next stopping event. By slotting/drilled, youre reducing the mass for this absorption. Sure you may be seeing lower temps (and think somehow that these holes are aiding in cooling), but the fact of the matter is, it is not absorbing as much heat (bad). 2) Materials. All (most) rotors are made out of Iron. Not all Iron is created equally. Compound that with the manufacturing methods for cross drilling and therein lies more issues. 3) For the street, if youre aggressive, you reduce the time between brake events and not all the heat is dissipated. Therefore, you need a different pad compound for that temperature range. Bobcats, HPS, whatever. Remember... improved braking distances do not come from larger rotors or bigger pads, or bigger brakes. First and foremost, better distances come from better tires. Clamping forces and torque will also improve braking performance, BUT, you cant change this just by going to a BBK or 6 piston calipers, etc. IMO, running blank OE rotors are perfectly fine for the street. Hell, many of us club racers use factory blanks.... and Im sure the duty cycles for an enduro are far greater than any "canyon run". Now if you want to add some looks... then go for it. slotted or drilled would be fine... but if you do get drilled, get some quality rotors with better materials. You certainly dont want something like THIS happening: Free Sonax Cleaner Deal http://www.brakeswap.com Carbotech, Hawk, PFC, DBA Rotors, Motul, Wilwood, Castrol... Great service. No bumping required ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Making money perhaps? hopefully not just that? It's a shame that automakers are using more and more cross-drilled rotors for OEM cars (including the new M5/6).. appeal? or is it just a way for the brakes to stay cool as long as possible so that the rotor spends little time in heat fluxuation and prevent the rotors from warping during spirited driving? If the cross-drilling serves no purpose other than a poor man's way to just take a drill bit and start hacking away at a rotor to "save weight and create more ventilation", wouldnt it be easier to just make a blank rotor that skips this process and go with a larger center-vent curved vane design? Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 If the cross-drilling serves no purpose other than a poor man's way to just take a drill bit and start hacking away at a rotor to "save weight and create more ventilation", wouldnt it be easier to just make a blank rotor that skips this process and go with a larger center-vent curved vane design? Keefe, because of the fact that it IS a marketing tool. If they decided to make the vanes bigger, etc etc... they'd lose the marketing aspect. The rotor would look just like any other rotor out there. From a basic perspective.. the holes in cross drilled rotors do NOT provide a substantial (if at all) point of cooling. Since when does air travel in a direction through small holes in the rotor surface that way? As I have said before, it's a lot easier for BMW, Porsche, etc.. to sell you a look.. rather than to educate you on the physics. Ive restrained from talking about Racing Brake... but I guess I'll delve into that. If their technology is what they say it is... not just what they say on their site, but all their patent applications are in public domain and you can read them, then they may have found a way to give you these aesthetics while minimizing (note I did not say removing) the consequences of a traditional drilled rotor design. Remember... rotors started out being drilled to relieve gases... when they realized they were prone to cracking, they went to a slotted rotor to help relive gases while minimizing the stress points generated from the drilling. This made cross drilled obsolete. They then went to different pad materials that in essence made drilled/slotted rotors obsolete. They were being phased out. Then somewhere along the line.. a GENIOUS decided to market these things. pure genious. Now you have cracked drilled rotors and people trying to use chamfered holes, etc to minimize stress points. Those still failed, so people needed to find better materials or methods...Enter Racing Brake... Free Sonax Cleaner Deal http://www.brakeswap.com Carbotech, Hawk, PFC, DBA Rotors, Motul, Wilwood, Castrol... Great service. No bumping required ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 ^ funny how engineering intentions work out the way they do? if it's not for function, then at least make money off of the design for some other way. I've been playing devil's advocate about the cross-drilled rotors from the functional standpoint that has been argued, tested, and eventually "failed/obsolete", but brake technology in other aspects progressed.. Hopefully with Racing Brake's techology of the "better rotor design" that it doesnt follow the same form/engineering-research/design path as the way cross-drilled technology did and fail. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 You're all wrong. Rice (n): the starcy seed or grain of an annual . . . oh nevermind. RICE = R.ace I.nspired C.osmetically E.nhanced Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Actually, I have seen a few GT2/3s with cracked, drilled rotors. : Ok but was this in a race or street situation ? Ada///M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwinn Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Don't know about GT3, but F1 uses carbon brake discs, and they are not drilled. The OP said that F1 and GT3 used drilled rotors... I didn't check, but I know that if they did, it was for weight reasons alone. Motorcycles use drilled rotors for this reason - of course, there, every gram makes a much bigger difference than on a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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