TGV and Fuel Injector issue

[Flxr_88]

I was trying to tune my 05 lgt and was having issues due to a prior tgv delete by the old owner. I descided it would be better to replace the TGV's and run the tune so I bought a set of OEM tgv's with the intact motor and sensor that was said to fit the EJ255. They arrived and I started the disassembly to hold them up to eachother and see that there is no way the injectors would fit. The TGV's I currently have would use EJ205 injectors, or apparently the 2008 sti injectors. I could return the TGV's, but that is a long process, and I tried looking for a used EJ255 tgv and have found none under $300. I was really wondering if I could buy injectors that would fit in the TGV, like from a 2008 wrx sti. And if I did, would I need a specific tune?

[rhino6303]

Describe the issues you were having tuning? Cobb greenspeed related?

As for the issue, you need side feed tgvs if you want your setup to be like factory.

Please attach pictures of two things: 1. The tgvs on your engine. 2. The tgvs you purchased.

Edited February 17 by rhino6303

[Flxr_88]

When I was tuning, I was putting the 93 stage 1 SF map on because I had an air intake, and as soon as I turned it on for the first time it went into limp mode and threw tgv codes. P2008, P2011, P2016, and P2021. So I looked at my driver side tgv to see if it had a motor and it didn’t. The old owner did a tgv delete and I assumed that the tgv delete was messing with the tune, so I bought two tgvs for an EJ255 and that’s about where I am now. 

Edited February 17 by Flxr_88

[rhino6303]

Your car was already tuned for the tgv deletes or else it would have thrown codes before.

If I were you, I'd get rid of the intake, put the previous tune back on and leave it like it was. Stock intake is good for up to 400 hp.

If you can't go back to previous setup you'd have to buy sidefeed tgvs. You won't be able to tune your new setup. There is a long explanation for why. I won't get into it in this post.

[Flxr_88]

The guy who I bought the car from said he had a stage 1 tune on the car but took it off for selling purposes. If I were to get the side feed, wouldn’t I also need to get new fuel lines to connect to the injectors?

[Flxr_88]

I don’t have the tune that was used for the tgv’s. From what I’ve seen on the ecu history it was all Cobb tunes 

[rhino6303]

The previous cobb tune had to have included his tgv deletes or else it would have the codes already.

Your previous pictures didn't all show up. I see the yellow side feed injectors in the first picture. No others though.

Any side feed tgv will work with the setup you have in your first picture.

[rhino6303]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186033785801

[Flxr_88]

I see now. So I have side feed injectors but the tgv I got is top feed, like for the black injectors. And are the ones you sent a link for side feed then?

 

Edited February 17 by Flxr_88

[rhino6303]

Correct. You bought top feed and have side feed. The linked ones are side feed.

[Flxr_88]

Alright. Thanks so much man.

[Flxr_88]

I returned the top feed ones as they wont work, but taking a closer look at the Forester XT ones you linked to, it looks like the port is still for top feed. I see some of the side feed short, stubby injector ports on some others, and I'm just trying to make sure 100% before I buy another set. 

[rhino6303]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116069873419

You could message this seller and see if they would remove the tgvs from the intake manifold here.

[Flxr_88]

The guy got back to me and said he did not have any or was willing to sell the TGV’s alone. Would another option be to just tune it at a good tuning shop? I emailed one Cobb pro certified tuning shop near me and they said I would need to reinstall the TGV’s because it wouldn’t meet the emissions guidelines, even though I have the papers showing that it passed emissions, and he said the codes can’t be bypassed. Would he not be able to do it because he uses Cobb? And if so should I look at a tuning place that doesn’t use Cobb?

[KZJonny]

In a nutshell, you cannot tune without TGVs or 2ndary air pump or cats, or rear O2 sensor, etc…. With Cobb. All factory emissions equipment must be installed and functional.

If you can find someone still tuning opensource (OS) then go for it. Else, get a standalone ECU ($$$$).

Assuming you are in the US? Not many places left doing Subaru tunes without APs any longer.

[KZJonny]

There is an entire another thread about how it may be possible to go to top feeds on a side feed car, but the options are limited, hard to find and you’d still need someone to tune for them.

[Infosecdad]

I may have a set of side feed TGVs from an '05 or '06 LGT if you are interested.

[Flxr_88]

That’s awesome. They have the sensors, motors, and flaps correct? And how much would you be looking for? That is if you have them. 

Edited February 23 by Flxr_88

[Infosecdad]

I have 2 or 3 sets, what I don't remember is how complete they are; I'll find them this weekend and let you know.

[Flxr_88]

Awesome, thank you.

[Flxr_88]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:02 PM, KZJonny said:

There is an entire another thread about how it may be possible to go to top feeds on a side feed car, but the options are limited, hard to find and you’d still need someone to tune for them.

Got it. I am in the US, so were you saying there are a not a lot of OS tuning places left that deal with Subarus, correct? I saw some top feed conversions, but those were expensive as well from what I was seeing, and I would need the tune on top of that. Other than extra hp and space if you really need it for a larger turbo, is there any other reason for a TGV delete. It seems somewhat common but also seems to cause more problems than it fixes. Also, I have two wires connecting to the backside bracket on my TGV’s. Is that a bypass for the sensors, or is that stock? 

Edited February 24 by Flxr_88

[rhino6303]

Not many OS tuners left due to emissions crackdowns. There are two main reasons tgv deletes exist:

1. They were thought to limit airflow/horsepower.

2. The bigger reason is to free up two 5V signals for the ECU to use additional sensors (oil pressure/wideeband afr/etc).

[Flxr_88]

I see now. So it was a theory that didn’t necessarily prove to be true, or effective enough for most cases, and was just a common thing people did due to the theory of making more hp, and freeing up that space. Thanks for all the help. I see my options now are: finding an oem tgv set, finding an OS Tuner, getting a stand alone ecu (expensive though), or doing a top feed conversion. And that I would need all O2 components to pass emissions. 

Edited February 24 by Flxr_88

[KZJonny]

10 hours ago, Flxr_88 said:

I see now. So it was a theory that didn’t necessarily prove to be true, or effective enough for most cases, and was just a common thing people did due to the theory of making more hp, and freeing up that space. Thanks for all the help. I see my options now are: finding an oem tgv set, finding an OS Tuner, getting a stand alone ecu (expensive though), or doing a top feed conversion. And that I would need all O2 components to pass emissions. 

That is the long and short of it. At this point in the age of these cars, half the time the TGV delete isn’t about making more horses, it’s that the TGV motors or sensors break and they’re expensive to replace and hard to find.

This is why I am trying to find a way to delete mine. No luck so far. It would also be nice to add oil pressure as a data logged feed, but you can’t have everything…

Best and fastest bet to put you back on the road is figure out which tune had the TGV delete written into it, and go back to how you got the car. That intake isn’t going to help you at all anyway. That would give you time to find some stock tgvs and install them, if you want to do further tuning.

[Infosecdad]

Looks like I have a set of OEM sidefeed TGVs from an '06 LGT, 2005-2006 used the same TGVs (14011AB432).