Nitrode Spark Plugs

[Andy Bromfield]

G'day,

Has anyone here run Nitrode spark plugs in their 5th gen?

If so, what were your impressions?

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Andy Bromfield

[silverton]

snake oil.

buy NGK or Denso.

[Andy Bromfield]

2 hours ago, silverton said:

snake oil.

buy NGK or Denso.

NGK plugs  are a go to staple for all of my builds. Used them for decades. 

Running  a set of NGK Ruthenium now in heat range 8.

However,  as an engineer by trade, I am always  open to a little experimentation in the name of science. I have also seen better throttle response with surface gapped plugs  in other applications. 

So, just curious about  these, as essentially the principle is the same, only with an intermediate electrode to assist the sustainability of the arc over distance, and also putting less demand on the coils . 

My main concern would  be in the quality of construction.  The design philosophy is sound.

[creep_nu]

i'm not one that usually agrees with big corporations, or follow the leader and not thinking outside the box.  With the automotive field being so competitive and everyone doing everything they can to eke out that little extra power, or lower emissions, or whatever, but...if there was any actual advantage to them, whether power, fuel economy, emissions, ease of tuning(???), whatever the manufacturers tout, then they'd be used in every single engine since their introduction.  Nobody uses e3 plugs, and nobody uses these plugs.  So, what.  Spend a bunch of money on a plug that is *maybe* equal in performance to the OEM plug, or maybe inferior?  don't make sense to me.

[Andy Bromfield]

3 hours ago, creep_nu said:

i'm not one that usually agrees with big corporations, or follow the leader and not thinking outside the box.  With the automotive field being so competitive and everyone doing everything they can to eke out that little extra power, or lower emissions, or whatever, but...if there was any actual advantage to them, whether power, fuel economy, emissions, ease of tuning(???), whatever the manufacturers tout, then they'd be used in every single engine since their introduction.  Nobody uses e3 plugs, and nobody uses these plugs.  So, what.  Spend a bunch of money on a plug that is *maybe* equal in performance to the OEM plug, or maybe inferior?  don't make sense to me.

Surface gapped and side gapped plugs are not used by many OE manufacturers in street engines for a few basic reasons. Longevity, or lack thereof, and ignition coil voltage requirements. (Large gap and ease of fouling at low load)

That aside, they are used in many aircraft piston engines, rotary engines, race engines, and high powered outboard drives with great success.

Surface gapped plugs are made by NGK, Bosch, and other manufacturers. They are not snake oil. The principle of operation is sound.

The Nitrode plugs are designed like a side/surface gapped plug. The intermediate electrode is there to aid the propagation of the arc to the side electrode, hence no need for a super hot coil to ensure good spark. The intermediate electrode also increases the capacitance of the plug somewhat. This should result in a larger corona. This is my own analysis of the basic design from what I can see.

I received a set of Nitrode plugs for free from a friend. So my out of pocket expense is zero. I m also not promoting the product, or advocating their use. Just wanted to know if anyone here has tried them in an automotive application.

I will give them a try and let you have my impressions. No expectations, just curiosity.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Andy Bromfield

[Scubaboo]

Interesting, sounds good in principle.

I'm with the other posters in thinking that with the incessant pushing of the EJ engine envelope by those looking for power, we probably would have heard of these by now from the WRX STI side of the family if they did anything for this engine.

Please do let us know how this experiment goes.

[Andy Bromfield]

3 hours ago, Scubaboo said:

Interesting, sounds good in principle.

I'm with the other posters in thinking that with the incessant pushing of the EJ engine envelope by those looking for power, we probably would have heard of these by now from the WRX STI side of the family if they did anything for this engine.

Please do let us know how this experiment goes.

Will do. There is actually very  little information in terms of reviews and personal impressions on these particular plugs available, and the little that I have seen is generally positive.

I do find  that there is a general lack of willingness to explore or experiment amongst the established base of automotive enthusiasts in general. Seems that no one wants to be the intrepid "Guinea pig", even if the financial and material risks are small. That is a shame, as no one will know if something is any good, unless they are willing to try it. Bit like eating the exact same dinner each night, because you know how it tastes.

It is because of this very lack of available feedback, coupled with the fact that the scientific theory behind the product is generally sound, that drives my innate curiosity. The only concern that I would have regarding them is the overall quality of manufacture and materials used. I don't expect them to last past thirty thousand miles, and that's perfectly ok, as long as they don't fall apart within the cylinder. 

[m sprank]

Its a spark plug on a non-performance engine.  If it makes enough spark (wet with fuel while under compression) to ignite the fuel, it works. 

There are basics to design like rippled bodies (which make air gaps to decrease the chance of the plug boot melting to the plug) but until you get into high compression (and now direct injection) for power unless your mpg is pooh or you are misfiring.....  Dont over think it. 

Never had an issue with OEM plugs and a Subie. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by m sprank
Piss poor spelling. I graduated from Vista High. What do you expect?

[Scubaboo]

^Very true.  

I believe OP is just curious if it will show any measurable improvement.

And I also understand everyone trying to save the OP the trouble.

Myself, having not tried or even heard of those plugs, I am just wondering how they will do.

[Andy Bromfield]

1 hour ago, Scubaboo said:

^Very true.  

I believe OP is just curious if it will show any measurable improvement.

And I also understand everyone trying to save the OP the trouble.

Myself, having not tried or even heard of those plugs, I am just wondering how they will do.

Quite so. Strictly curiosity, as I have used side gapped plugs before in other engines, and noticed increased throttle responsiveness' and an average gain of 4-6 hp and 6-8 ft/lbs torque improvement  on a dyno. Those were BRISK branded plugs. I still run those in my boosted motors. (Nissan R33 GTR and Nissan Pulsar GTiR)

Even on non performance oriented engines I do see an improvement in throttle response with side gapped plugs, So I was just curious if I would notice a difference, seat of pants or measured, with my Subaru. (Full bolt ons, (I/H/E), ported heads, 10.5 CR, Crawford power blocks, Inferno Fab manifold, OKADA coils, running a pretty aggressive tune (ign timing),  on 93AKI fuel.

And yes, I am indeed a chronic overthinker, lol. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Andy Bromfield

[silverton]

There is a large financial risk if your experimental spark plug fails and grenades the motor, especially in a boosted application.

2-3% (on my ez36) gains giving the benefit of the doubt of 6hp and 8ftlbs of torque aren't worth it in my book.

Current ignition systems are so overly powerful that any kind of capacitance isn't necessary and adds a fail point.

But by all means though, report back after you've run them for 30,000 miles. I am curious what you learn.

[Andy Bromfield]

4 minutes ago, silverton said:

There is a large financial risk if your experimental spark plug fails and grenades the motor, especially in a boosted application.

2-3% (on my ez36) gains giving the benefit of the doubt of 6hp and 8ftlbs of torque aren't worth it in my book.

Current ignition systems are so overly powerful that any kind of capacitance isn't necessary and adds a fail point.

But by all means though, report back after you've run them for 30,000 miles. I am curious what you learn.

Would never attempt more than 5000 miles on them. 

Not going to be used in a boosted application, too risky with a relatively unknown quality of construction.

A month or two is sufficient to see if they make a difference. On a naturally aspirated engine every little bit helps, hopefully I'll not have any of them take a dump in the engine..

Hey, you only live once! 

[silverton]

Good God I'm not replacing my spark plugs every five thousand miles for a few horsepower. I like my time and money too much for that. I realize you got them for free but I wouldn't.

Edited August 4, 2023 by silverton

[silverton]

Another thing turning me off from them is that Nitrode does not have a web presence except for Amazon and other online retailers.

This guy didn't like them:

https://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/warning-pilot-automotive-nitrode-spark-plugs-sp-np28.142906/

[m sprank]

Its all about efficient burn. In my experience setting the gap is more productive than playing with designs. 

Even on a stock ej25 non-boosted adjusting gap helps. On a boosted ej255/257 there is a fairly noticable difference when adjusting gap. 

I am too old, have had too much to drink, and it is too late to verify my specific recommendations for gaps on ej's. But I spent 5+ years playing and testing on my dyno to get it "right". 

[Andy Bromfield]

7 hours ago, m sprank said:

Its all about efficient burn. In my experience setting the gap is more productive than playing with designs. 

Even on a stock ej25 non-boosted adjusting gap helps. On a boosted ej255/257 there is a fairly noticable difference when adjusting gap. 

I am too old, have had too much to drink, and it is too late to verify my specific recommendations for gaps on ej's. But I spent 5+ years playing and testing on my dyno to get it "right". 

You are indeed correct.  In my case though, the test engine is a mildly modified FB25. 

I have also spent many years experimenting with various plug gaps, plug designs, modifying existing plugs, and plug indexing. Worked with everything from breaker points to modern CDI systems, and built a few engines along the way.

All in good fun.

[Andy Bromfield]

9 hours ago, silverton said:

Another thing turning me off from them is that Nitrode does not have a web presence except for Amazon and other online retailers.

This guy didn't like them:

https://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/warning-pilot-automotive-nitrode-spark-plugs-sp-np28.142906/

I agree that the lack of manufacturer information is a big red flag. I did find and download a product catalogue from a Web page a while back. Will check again and post the link here. Pilot Automotive is /was the distributor in the US. The catalogue lists hundreds of applications.

With regards to the review, after careful reading it would appear that he had an older ignition system, and the result was plug fouling at low rpm. This is typical with side or surface gapped plugs in general, and why they are not an OE staple. CDI or a good modern COP system is a requirement to run them. Otherwise you get a weak spark, misfires, and plug fouling. I have also seen this with Bosch +4 plugs on older cars. These are also a surface gapped plug in principle.

[Andy Bromfield]

9 hours ago, silverton said:

Good God I'm not replacing my spark plugs every five thousand miles for a few horsepower. I like my time and money too much for that. I realize you got them for free but I wouldn't.

The car in question is not a DD, so for me to accumulate 5000 miles on it would take me at least two years. 

I'm a retired mechanical engineer, who does consultancy on occasion, so free time to tinker is abundant!

[MoleMan]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:21 PM, silverton said:

Another thing turning me off from them is that Nitrode does not have a web presence except for Amazon and other online retailers.

This guy didn't like them:

https://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/warning-pilot-automotive-nitrode-spark-plugs-sp-np28.142906/

Silverton,

 

To your point. Anyone who is changing plugs please buy from a local reputable source and not Amazon or eBay. Chances are your Denso,NGK, or even OEM(Denso or NGK with factory branding) are fakes.

 

Thank you for the reminder btw. Gotta change my daily Civics plugs as it's been 50k since last changeover. Great thing on the R18 is it takes 15 mins to do all four going slow!  Bad part is 140 HP econobox for 100 mile one way commutes

[Andy Bromfield]

9 hours ago, MoleMan said:

Silverton,

 

To your point. Anyone who is changing plugs please buy from a local reputable source and not Amazon or eBay. Chances are your Denso,NGK, or even OEM(Denso or NGK with factory branding) are fakes.

 

Thank you for the reminder btw. Gotta change my daily Civics plugs as it's been 50k since last changeover. Great thing on the R18 is it takes 15 mins to do all four going slow!  Bad part is 140 HP econobox for 100 mile one way commutes

Agreed. I always buy from Rock Auto. Never had an issue there with spark plugs.

The Nitrode plugs also came from Rock Auto.

[Alexmed2002]

15 hours ago, MoleMan said:

Anyone who is changing plugs please buy from a local reputable source and not Amazon or eBay.

I agree. I keep seeing more and more people have issues with plugs from eBay & Amazon throughout multiple forums.

[DrD123]

I've always gone with NGK (laser iridium) - I've never seen the nitrode plugs before (don't see them on rockauto) - are they more/less than the iridium ones?  ($12.07/ea for the SILFR6B8 plugs)

[MoleMan]

19 minutes ago, DrD123 said:

I've always gone with NGK (laser iridium) - I've never seen the nitrode plugs before (don't see them on rockauto) - are they more/less than the iridium ones?  ($12.07/ea for the SILFR6B8 plugs)

No.

 

Not at all. Something looks really off with the plug on the OPs picture.  Seems the plug is not gapped at all.  It just sounds like a hard pass red flags on all levels.  I always stick with the NGK Laser Iridium plugs. Most cars Subaru/Toyota/Honda seem to use the laser Iridium plugs. Even when Denso is spec in the manual NGKs are installed from the factory.

 

I put this one in the same category as the "Thornton Tuning Chip" scam.  

[silverton]

17 hours ago, MoleMan said:

Seems the plug is not gapped at all.

It's a pretty poor excuse of a side gap if anything: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/does-side-gapping-spark-plugs-work/

[DrD123]

18 hours ago, MoleMan said:

Something looks really off with the plug on the OPs picture.

Agreed - I figured the gap looked weird because the plug is rotated a bit - I am more concerned about the insulator cracking, to be honest - stress state is going to be a tad asymmetric with the big electrode offset from the middle on one side and the little one on the other...

I'm with you on the NGK laser iridiums - that's what the car came with, and that's what I bought and put in there when I did the timing belt.