Nitrode Spark Plugs

[Andy Bromfield]

30 minutes ago, DrD123 said:

Agreed - I figured the gap looked weird because the plug is rotated a bit - I am more concerned about the insulator cracking, to be honest - stress state is going to be a tad asymmetric with the big electrode offset from the middle on one side and the little one on the other...

I'm with you on the NGK laser iridiums - that's what the car came with, and that's what I bought and put in there when I did the timing belt.

Actually the possibility of the ceramic fracturing is really my only concern.

[Andy Bromfield]

19 hours ago, DrD123 said:

I've always gone with NGK (laser iridium) - I've never seen the nitrode plugs before (don't see them on rockauto) - are they more/less than the iridium ones?  ($12.07/ea for the SILFR6B8 plugs)

Rock auto had a close out sale on them last month. They were around $1.50 each on sale. 

[Andy Bromfield]

2 hours ago, silverton said:

It's a pretty poor excuse of a side gap if anything: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/does-side-gapping-spark-plugs-work/

It is a hybrid side gapped plug. The intermediate electrode is there to aid in flashover, so that the arc may be more easily established. So you get the benefits of an unshrouded spark (a la side gapping) along with improved ignitability and less voltage demand.  The gap should be measured from the intermediate to the side electrode. That is my analysis of the design.

I presently have them installed. Initial impressions are a smoother idle. (compared to  8 month old NGK Ruthenium's on a stock gap) The throttle response is definitely sharper, and I am getting decent acceleration with less throttle position on the roads that I usually travel. In a word, she feels more "nippy". 

Lets see how long they hold up. I will run them for 1 year or 5000 miles, whichever comes first.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Andy Bromfield

[MoleMan]

3 hours ago, Andy Bromfield said:

It is a hybrid side gapped plug. The intermediate electrode is there to aid in flashover, so that the arc may be more easily established. So you get the benefits of an unshrouded spark (a la side gapping) along with improved ignitability and less voltage demand.  The gap should be measured from the intermediate to the side electrode. That is my analysis of the design.

I presently have them installed. Initial impressions are a smoother idle. (compared to  8 month old NGK Ruthenium's on a stock gap) The throttle response is definitely sharper, and I am getting decent acceleration with less throttle position on the roads that I usually travel. In a word, she feels more "nippy". 

Lets see how long they hold up. I will run them for 1 year or 5000 miles, whichever comes first.

Glad to hear.  Just keep in mind the NGK Ruthenium is not the proper spec plug for out cars.  Not saying it's not a good plug at all just not the right one.  I get the point of them. But not being made by a major manufacturer is the big issue for me. Slap a Bosch, Denso, or NGK name on that and I am a player.

Weather conditions for me always make the car feel different.  But the "butt" dyno can be a beautiful thing!

[Andy Bromfield]

9 hours ago, MoleMan said:

Glad to hear.  Just keep in mind the NGK Ruthenium is not the proper spec plug for out cars.  Not saying it's not a good plug at all just not the right one.  I get the point of them. But not being made by a major manufacturer is the big issue for me. Slap a Bosch, Denso, or NGK name on that and I am a player.

Weather conditions for me always make the car feel different.  But the "butt" dyno can be a beautiful thing!

I have owned 4 fifth gens from 2010 to present (all JDM models) They include two Legacy DIT wagons, One GT Sedan, and Presently a 2013 2.5i eyesight tS. Most have been modified in some way. I also build engines as a hobby.  So fairly experienced  overall.

I have run the stock  NGK Laser Iridium plugs, Denso Iridium TT, NGK Ruthenium plugs, etc.  As long as the heat range is appropriate for the particular level of modifications done (if any) and the plug meets the physical requirements for fitment,  then it's really not a big deal. They all work pretty much the same way. The use of exotic metals is done mainly for longevity.  Ruthenium actually is more conductive than Iridium, and is an improvement on an iridium plug for most applications.  There is no single "right" plug for an engine once the required  specifications are met or exceeded. 

That being said, I do believe in the improvements in efficiency brought on by unshrouding the spark kernel. This is generally well known,  and is measurable. 

I do agree with you 100% in that the reliability and longevity of the Nitrode plugs are an unknown quantity,  and the use of them entails risk.

Hence my approach is one of experimentation,  not adoption. I suspected that there would  be a noticeable difference based on my experience with various plug designs.  I also do not expect them to be right for all applications, or to have the material quality or longevity of an OE spark plug .

This is why I am not advocating their general use.

 

[silverton]

What I would like to see is a super slow mo camera in a combustion chamber with these, and other, spark plugs to see how it actually differs. As Moleman says, a change in weather will change perceivable performance. 

 

If you have dyno access, that would also be good.  The difference between science and fucking around is writing down what you find and comparing results.

[MoleMan]

7 hours ago, Andy Bromfield said:

I have owned 4 fifth gens from 2010 to present (all JDM models) They include two Legacy DIT wagons, One GT Sedan, and Presently a 2013 2.5i eyesight tS. Most have been modified in some way. I also build engines as a hobby.  So fairly experienced  overall.

I have run the stock  NGK Laser Iridium plugs, Denso Iridium TT, NGK Ruthenium plugs, etc.  As long as the heat range is appropriate for the particular level of modifications done (if any) and the plug meets the physical requirements for fitment,  then it's really not a big deal. They all work pretty much the same way. The use of exotic metals is done mainly for longevity.  Ruthenium actually is more conductive than Iridium, and is an improvement on an iridium plug for most applications.  There is no single "right" plug for an engine once the required  specifications are met or exceeded. 

That being said, I do believe in the improvements in efficiency brought on by unshrouding the spark kernel. This is generally well known,  and is measurable. 

I do agree with you 100% in that the reliability and longevity of the Nitrode plugs are an unknown quantity,  and the use of them entails risk.

Hence my approach is one of experimentation,  not adoption. I suspected that there would  be a noticeable difference based on my experience with various plug designs.  I also do not expect them to be right for all applications, or to have the material quality or longevity of an OE spark plug .

This is why I am not advocating their general use.

 

Agreed on the no single plug is perfect statement. In the Civic forums the Ruthenium plugs are big with the Si drivers due to most of them operate in the VTEC range 5500 rpm and higher.  In the non Si cars such as my daily R18 the Ruthenium plugs are not recommended but do work without an issue.  That plug seems more geared toward high reving machines.  That being said I would still stick with Iridium's in my VQ37 VHR which is pretty much one of the best NA V6s ever made(that car does have a Stillen kit on it so it is modded)

I have run crap Autolite Copper plugs on old beater cars that have just run just fine for tens of thousands of miles.

Me personally tend to stick with the laser Iridium NGKs on all the cars I own with the exception of the S4 and 3/4 ton diesel.  

Now you have me curious about putting a set in my R18 as it would take me 15 mins to change them out lol...

 

[DrD123]

21 hours ago, Andy Bromfield said:

Rock auto had a close out sale on them last month. They were around $1.50 each on sale. 

Well $6 is a pretty inexpensive experiment - will be interesting to see how it turns out (curious what the wear pattern will look like on the plugs when they get some miles on them)

[Andy Bromfield]

29 minutes ago, DrD123 said:

Well $6 is a pretty inexpensive experiment - will be interesting to see how it turns out (curious what the wear pattern will look like on the plugs when they get some miles on them)

Will be sure to post pics when they have been removed.

[Andy Bromfield]

51 minutes ago, MoleMan said:

Agreed on the no single plug is perfect statement. In the Civic forums the Ruthenium plugs are big with the Si drivers due to most of them operate in the VTEC range 5500 rpm and higher.  In the non Si cars such as my daily R18 the Ruthenium plugs are not recommended but do work without an issue.  That plug seems more geared toward high reving machines.  That being said I would still stick with Iridium's in my VQ37 VHR which is pretty much one of the best NA V6s ever made(that car does have a Stillen kit on it so it is modded)

I have run crap Autolite Copper plugs on old beater cars that have just run just fine for tens of thousands of miles.

Me personally tend to stick with the laser Iridium NGKs on all the cars I own with the exception of the S4 and 3/4 ton diesel.  

Now you have me curious about putting a set in my R18 as it would take me 15 mins to change them out lol...

 

Give them a try. Let us know your Impressions. You will either notice a change or not. Being out $6-10 bucks won't sting much.

[Andy Bromfield]

1 hour ago, silverton said:

What I would like to see is a super slow mo camera in a combustion chamber with these, and other, spark plugs to see how it actually differs. As Moleman says, a change in weather will change perceivable performance. 

 

If you have dyno access, that would also be good.  The difference between science and fucking around is writing down what you find and comparing results.

Only have one type of weather here in the Caribbean this year.. Hot and dry and hotter and drier!

I did all runs with both plugs between 11 am to 3pm on the same day, with very low relative humidity and a temperature of 37°C. Runs were made mainly in hilly terrain with the same 93 octane fuel that I normally run.

It is my experience that differences between standard and side gapped plugs are noticeable on most modern engines with good ignition systems. The cars just seem more peppy and eager to rev typically. 

In the past when I have taken out the dremel and made my own side gapped plugs, there would typically  be a 5 to 8 horsepower gain above 4000 rpm (tested those on an RB26DETT, as well as an SR20DET and a 4AGE black top.

So there is something to be gained usually. 

I normally side gap on NA engines to sharpen up the throttle response,  any power gained is a bonus.

I do have Dyno access, but Dyno time here is  now around $100 per hour. So really not worth it to verify what may be a 5 to 8 HP gain.

Perhaps someone  stateside can grab a set and take a run?

[m sprank]

Dyno time in the US is far beyond $100/hour normally.  I charged $150/hour back in 2018.  Its the insurance.  The yearly liability insurance on the dyno is like buying a new dyno every year. 

 

When I was young plug manufactures made dyno runs to prove their products.  Not anymore.  Hell, back in the day we ran Champion plugs in the 510s.  I admit there are gains to good plugs.  A more consistent, controlled burn leads to better throttle response, mpg and maybe more power.  You could gain a few ponies from the best plug and gap with a turbo EJ255/57.  But I would have to call BS on gaining 5-8whp on an N/A car from a plug.  Not with todays ignition systems.  Back in the late 80's/early 90's when import performance really began to take off the ignition systems in Hondas/Nissan/Toyota were notoriously poor and weak... with an ignition amplifier, a cap/coil/power tower, wires and plugs you could gain 5-8whp.  Have not seen gains like that from ignition products/plugs since.  Direct coil packs changed everything. 

[Andy Bromfield]

24 minutes ago, m sprank said:

Dyno time in the US is far beyond $100/hour normally.  I charged $150/hour back in 2018.  Its the insurance.  The yearly liability insurance on the dyno is like buying a new dyno every year. 

 

When I was young plug manufactures made dyno runs to prove their products.  Not anymore.  Hell, back in the day we ran Champion plugs in the 510s.  I admit there are gains to good plugs.  A more consistent, controlled burn leads to better throttle response, mpg and maybe more power.  You could gain a few ponies from the best plug and gap with a turbo EJ255/57.  But I would have to call BS on gaining 5-8whp on an N/A car from a plug.  Not with todays ignition systems.  Back in the late 80's/early 90's when import performance really began to take off the ignition systems in Hondas/Nissan/Toyota were notoriously poor and weak... with an ignition amplifier, a cap/coil/power tower, wires and plugs you could gain 5-8whp.  Have not seen gains like that from ignition products/plugs since.  Direct coil packs changed everything. 

The Toyota 4AGE series were all distributor based back when I ran them and worked on them.

Side gapped plugs and an MSD or Jacobs CDI box and coil made 5 to 8 more horsepower over new stock plugs run on the same CDI setup and gapped at 45+  thou. Torque was up by around 6lb/ft at some areas under the curve too.

Same story for the SR. And they had a decent ignition stock.

I agree that COP systems are way more accurate and more powerful than most of the 80's & 90's factory stuff.

Here are some side gapped plugs that I made up for the SR back in the 90's.

[m sprank]

I had an SR20 (USDM, so no DET).  1992 Sentra SER.  Ignition SUCKED.  Ran a Crane Cams Ignition with a PS92coil, Magnacore 8mm wires and NGK side gapped plugs.  Can't recall gap, its been over 30 years, LOL.  But, yes it added between 5-8whp.  To that car and the 1.6l 1992 Sentra E I also owned.  That car became turbo and ran a 12s 1/4 mile at Carlsbad Speedway. 

Those ignition systems pale in comparison to todays cars. 

[Andy Bromfield]

10 hours ago, m sprank said:

I had an SR20 (USDM, so no DET).  1992 Sentra SER.  Ignition SUCKED.  Ran a Crane Cams Ignition with a PS92coil, Magnacore 8mm wires and NGK side gapped plugs.  Can't recall gap, its been over 30 years, LOL.  But, yes it added between 5-8whp.  To that car and the 1.6l 1992 Sentra E I also owned.  That car became turbo and ran a 12s 1/4 mile at Carlsbad Speedway. 

Those ignition systems pale in comparison to todays cars. 

Ah! Great memories. I was a member of the original SER mailing list, as well as present on SER.net, Sentara.net, NICO, etc. Learned a lot from Kojima, Roffe, and others. Had a 1989 Bluebird SSS (first appearance of the DET),  a 1994 Bluebird SSS, and a few Sunny GTS and a GTir.

Good times.That Crane CDI combo was pretty high tech back in the day. Better than the early 6AL, which was not encapsulated, and still used pills to set the limiter. For ignition leads I ran Magnecor, NGK blues, as well as Nology Hotwires and a Power core. Jacobs stuff was cool, but not reliable.

Played with a lot of stuff back in the day. Had a well used NOPI account.  Always liked to try something out of the box.

Nice to meet a fellow old timer. Not many of us left on the scene.

[m sprank]

It started back in '74.  My old man was a driver for Team Datsun in California.  1972 510's from the day I could carry a wrench until my senior year in high school. 

NOPI have not heard that one in a while.  I actually never purchased from NOPI, but I used their adds from Sport Compact Car to get better deals at local speed shops, LOL. 

Never liked the Jacobs stuff.  All hype and no reliability.  I tended to go against the grain as I was building Nissans and everyone else was building Hondas.  I probably spent over $50k on two Sentras that I purchased brand new for a combined $15k.  I worked two jobs in High School to buy those cars.  Went to prom in my brand new SER.  By 2002 I was building a SpecV under contract with Nismo.  I developed the Brembo brake kit and my (now wifes) car was the only car to ever have ABS and Brembos.  From there I built a S/C Frontier with Spencer Low Racing and Hanneman Fiberglass that went to SEMA.

I made the jump into Subarus in late 2001 (pre-ordered a 2002 WRX).  By 2004 I was out of the Nissan game entirely and all in on Subies.  The rest is "history".

 

The SER and E were before digital cameras.  I have Photo Albums, lol.   Anyone remember the original shop truck that I used to perform mobile repairs and installs?  The lowered Fronty. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by m sprank

[Andy Bromfield]

1 hour ago, m sprank said:

It started back in '74.  My old man was a driver for Team Datsun in California.  1972 510's from the day I could carry a wrench until my senior year in high school. 

NOPI have not heard that one in a while.  I actually never purchased from NOPI, but I used their adds from Sport Compact Car to get better deals at local speed shops, LOL. 

Never liked the Jacobs stuff.  All hype and no reliability.  I tended to go against the grain as I was building Nissans and everyone else was building Hondas.  I probably spent over $50k on two Sentras that I purchased brand new for a combined $15k.  I worked two jobs in High School to buy those cars.  Went to prom in my brand new SER.  By 2002 I was building a SpecV under contract with Nismo.  I developed the Brembo brake kit and my (now wifes) car was the only car to ever have ABS and Brembos.  From there I built a S/C Frontier with Spencer Low Racing and Hanneman Fiberglass that went to SEMA.

I made the jump into Subarus in late 2001 (pre-ordered a 2002 WRX).  By 2004 I was out of the Nissan game entirely and all in on Subies.  The rest is "history".

 

The SER and E were before digital cameras.  I have Photo Albums, lol.   Anyone remember the original shop truck that I used to perform mobile repairs and installs?  The lowered Fronty. 

Cool! you were there from the outset. Nice rides, man. I may have a pic or two of my early Nissans lying around. Right now the only Nissan that I have left is my R33 GTR, which I have owned since "97. Always wanted to find a nice dime to restore. When I started out finding an OS Giken twin cam head for the L series was a dream of mine. Now I see KA24DE heads being converted for use on the L blocks.

My dad was heavily into Alfas and BMW's. that's where I cut my teeth with cars. I became the local expert on jetting and balancing Weber and Dellorto sidedraughts in the late '70s.

I remember when I got my first Sunny GTS (Japanese SER, SR18DE) back in 91. All that I could find for it was a JWT POP, and a Stromung exhaust. That soon changed as the pocket rocket status was realised.

Ill shoot up a couple pics of my GTR later.

Cheers.

[Andy Bromfield]

3 hours ago, m sprank said:

It started back in '74.  My old man was a driver for Team Datsun in California.  1972 510's from the day I could carry a wrench until my senior year in high school. 

NOPI have not heard that one in a while.  I actually never purchased from NOPI, but I used their adds from Sport Compact Car to get better deals at local speed shops, LOL. 

Never liked the Jacobs stuff.  All hype and no reliability.  I tended to go against the grain as I was building Nissans and everyone else was building Hondas.  I probably spent over $50k on two Sentras that I purchased brand new for a combined $15k.  I worked two jobs in High School to buy those cars.  Went to prom in my brand new SER.  By 2002 I was building a SpecV under contract with Nismo.  I developed the Brembo brake kit and my (now wifes) car was the only car to ever have ABS and Brembos.  From there I built a S/C Frontier with Spencer Low Racing and Hanneman Fiberglass that went to SEMA.

I made the jump into Subarus in late 2001 (pre-ordered a 2002 WRX).  By 2004 I was out of the Nissan game entirely and all in on Subies.  The rest is "history".

 

The SER and E were before digital cameras.  I have Photo Albums, lol.   Anyone remember the original shop truck that I used to perform mobile repairs and installs?  The lowered Fronty. 

Here is my toy.

[m sprank]

NICE. 

[Scubaboo]

Well never expected all that in a sparkplug thread lol.

Various Nissans, old school Rockford Punch DSM amps, and Godzilla.

I'd rock any of all that!  

[Andy Bromfield]

1 hour ago, m sprank said:

NICE. 

Thanks. Old school build, HKS 2.8 stroker kit, HKS cams and valve springs, HKS injectors, HKS ECU, AEM water/meth kit. Very quick and responsive. 

Here looking to get some PRP upgrades soon.

[Andy Bromfield]

For those with the FB25 who may want to try these plugs..

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=13855805&cc=1504361&pt=7212&jsn=760