Car feels heavy..not nimble

[paul85]

Just picked up a 2006 LGT and the car does not feel nimble. It feels heavy to drive, even when compared to my sequoia. What can I do to lighten the clutch and make it feel more nimble? It engages at the floor. Is this easy to adjust as I'd like it to engage about half an inch higher at minimum. The previous owner said it has a cobb stage 2 tune (didnt know that existed for our cars), has an exhaust and CAI, and aftermarket clutch installed a couple years ago. I bought it from IAAI as a salvage car, but there's no frame damage, just needs a hood, fender, and headlight which I have all on order. I can verify the exhaust and intake, and have purchased the tuner from him and am waiting for it to arrive.

[boxkita]

if it has been modified and you're driving it without the accessport, you'll likely be having tuning issues. usually when one of these cars shows up as salvage its engine is on the way out. you probably want to get cylinder pressure check and other testing on it. also check shaft play on the turbo.

clutch may need to be bled or the clutch is wore out

[paul85]

P.O. slid on ice into a fence. Engine is sound, clutch grabs well, its just heavy. I'm mechanically inclined and my previous car was a 2009 GTI which felt light, nimble, etc, but I guess they are just different beasts. I'm getting the accessport from him so I'll wait for it to arrive and hook it up. Thanks

[boxkita]

well, it is a 3500 lb awd car that was designed for touring while hauling the family and their gear. So not much good at canyon carving.

 

On 16yo vehicle, replacing all the suspension/steering/rubber bits is a requirement. The car can be made to handle but its going to have increased nvh. Replacing the steering rack with a newer sti or wrx unit and changing to the sti solid steering unit has had good results for others.

[Max Capacity]

Describe "heavy"

 

IMO its slow handling, nothing to do with HP.

 

I test drove one of those Dodge Magnum Wagons back in 2004 before I drove a GT wagon. That Dodge felt heavy, slow to turn in and not fun a toss able like the GT wagon.

[paul85]

I'm comparing the car to my 2006 sequoia which has lighter steering, better accelerator response, and just doesn't feel as heavy as it is. This car just feels heavy. It's hard to explain. I'll go through everything and see whats up. It might be the aftermarket clutch, coupled with the inexperience I have with this car. The shifting itself is fine, its just the pedals don't feel light and nimble and in general, the car just has that feeling. It's so hard to describe. That being said, I've only driven it for about 8 blocks, so maybe I just need to get it out on the road and see. I'm replacing the hood, fender, headlights, and tail light this weekend so I can get it inspected and then will really start going through it.

[boxkita]

if a 2006 sequioa feels better than your lgt, your lgt is going to cost alot to bring up back to baseline

[Max Capacity]

May be lets do one thing at a time.

 

"lighter steering" I feel both my Legacy GT's have a nice light feel and good response to steering wheel input. They are different then my 86' Ford F150, but close to the 2018 Outback we have.

 

Are you saying yours feels hard to steer ?

[derache123]

I've personally also noticed that both my old 2.5i and current LGT have heavier steering than a lot of other cars, but this is a good thing imo, gives better steering feel. I think a lot of cars these days have overboosted power steering and you end up losing the connection to the road.

[motorbreath]

I've personally also noticed that both my old 2.5i and current LGT have heavier steering than a lot of other cars, but this is a good thing imo, gives better steering feel. I think a lot of cars these days have overboosted power steering and you end up losing the connection to the road.

 

I just flushed my power steering fluid, hasn't done much for my noisy PS pump, but the steering has become noticeably lighter!

[norutah]

That's good, now for the throttle pedal feeling worse than your sequoia. So a few things right off the bat.

1- Both vehicles are DBW throttle body so Toyota vs Subaru on how much torque you get to experience off the line.

2- The increased displacement of the Toyota 4.7l will feel better off the line unless you are doing something to build boost at a stop.

3- The 4.10 gear ratio driving only rear wheels likely does feel good. I'm not certain which trim/trans you have so IDK your ratio.

 

Now, cruising on the freeway at 80 and crushing your pedal in the Subaru is likely more enjoyable?

 

Like boxkita mentioned, you likely have a long list ahead of you to replace all of the worn bushes and joints. P sure after you get into it you will start to appreciate the ride and handling more and more with each bush replaced

 

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[Kojak]

Fence-slide could’ve done more harm than previously assessed. Check out your lower control arm condition and bushings, many of us have dropped weight upgrading to aluminum lca’s. My PO had a truck slide into the front end in his driveway after the e brake failed. He painted the bumper and called it a day. I had trouble with the arms(bent)and tie rod ends(seized) after that and a pothole/curb hit combo.

[lagwagon]

I've driven a first gen Tundra extensively and will say that steering weight and pedal feel is lighter than both my LGTs. Low end is also better on the Tundra but overall the LGT is much faster, even with the 5EAT. I haven't driven a pre-SI drive 5EAT so I'm not sure how they feel but on my 2007, somewhere between S and S# feels similar in response to my 5MT, but still a bunch slower.

 

As far as trucks go, I thought the Tundra was about the best balance between steering and pedal effort and feedback for that type of vehicle. Dodge's have underboosted brakes (very heavy) and good steering, GMs have overboosted steering and no pedal feel at all, and Fords I don't have much experience with.

 

Also, two LGTs can have significantly different steering feel. My 2005 steering is much lighter than my 2007, which is nice at low speeds but not so nice at highway speeds. This can be due to different brand ATF in the system, fluid condition and leaks and overall wear. Tires and wheels (if non-stock scrub radius) also make a difference.

 

Anyways, I don't think you will be able to get the sedan/sedan-based wagon to feel the same as a full sized SUV but you could replace the fluids to change steering and pedal feel and address any other leaks/wear in the rack, suspension, brake pads/discs and possibly suspension.

 

EDIT: my old co-worker had an upgraded clutch in his sedan and it was so heavy my kneecap popped out while driving it. My stock clutch feels pretty light (but not Honda Civic or VW Golf light). I actually stayed away from LGTs for years as a result of that experience, and was the reason I went with a 5EAT first, when I did eventually pick one up.

Edited March 24, 2021 by lagwagon

[norutah]

My outback is a riot to drive but when I get in my ram crew cab long bed dually (best motor/worst suspension and steering) I'm quickly reminded of the differences in a 2005 car that has been sorted and a new truck [emoji6]. Just going from my wife's GT wagon to the outback there is a huge difference in favor of the GT. But like kojak mentioned, if something is tweaked and your bushes are clapped you've got work to do.

 

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[paul85]

I'm going to start digging into the car this weekend. I'll definitely change all fluids, get it up on a lift, check out the suspension and undercarriage, etc. This site will be a very valuable place to get info, ask questions, etc. Looking forward to making a few friends here. Thanks all for the responses.

[paul85]

Here are a few photos of the car and one of my Sequoia.

 

https://imgur.com/a/0WYyIK7

[boxkita]

Here are a few photos of the car and one of my Sequoia.

 

https://imgur.com/a/0WYyIK7

 

There's a line in "Days of Thunder" ... "oh look there's a panel you don't have fix. BAM. Now its broke too.

 

looks like every panel got hit. also looks like driver front fender is pushed back?

Edited March 25, 2021 by boxkita

[paul85]

A bit.. its not bad. I will get it looking good. The inside is in very good condition. I'm not looking for perfection, just something to drive that my older sons can learn to drive stick on. Not sure if I like the rims or not.

 

And it has hail damage..

 

and yeah.. I bought it to work on it as a spring/summer project.

[Legasea]

I've driven a first gen Tundra extensively and will say that steering weight and pedal feel is lighter than both my LGTs. Low end is also better on the Tundra but overall the LGT is much faster, even with the 5EAT. I haven't driven a pre-SI drive 5EAT so I'm not sure how they feel but on my 2007, somewhere between S and S# feels similar in response to my 5MT, but still a bunch slower.

 

As far as trucks go, I thought the Tundra was about the best balance between steering and pedal effort and feedback for that type of vehicle. Dodge's have underboosted brakes (very heavy) and good steering, GMs have overboosted steering and no pedal feel at all, and Fords I don't have much experience with.

 

Also, two LGTs can have significantly different steering feel. My 2005 steering is much lighter than my 2007, which is nice at low speeds but not so nice at highway speeds. This can be due to different brand ATF in the system, fluid condition and leaks and overall wear. Tires and wheels (if non-stock scrub radius) also make a difference.

 

Anyways, I don't think you will be able to get the sedan/sedan-based wagon to feel the same as a full sized SUV but you could replace the fluids to change steering and pedal feel and address any other leaks/wear in the rack, suspension, brake pads/discs and possibly suspension.

 

EDIT: my old co-worker had an upgraded clutch in his sedan and it was so heavy my kneecap popped out while driving it. My stock clutch feels pretty light (but not Honda Civic or VW Golf light). I actually stayed away from LGTs for years as a result of that experience, and was the reason I went with a 5EAT first, when I did eventually pick one up.

 

 

Lol is your username in reference to the band?!

 

 

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[Pleides]

If ya have an aftermarket clutch then I can't help ya there. My car's 2007 Legacy GT clutch and flywheel setup (my car is an 05 which comes with a dual mass FW from the factory) is somewhat stiff if you're used to an economy car, but really manageable. Maybe not the most intuitive like a Porsche, but it gets the job done for me.

 

I've driven a pretty large number of Tundras and Sequoias from that time period and I always felt that the steering was unusually light for how large those are. They must have a very powerful power steering pump because they feel much lighter in the wheel than they are. The power steering setup of any sporty car with hydraulic steering is always going to be heavier because the pump dulls steering feedback when cranked up to make the steering feel light. When you drive at higher speeds, you'll come to appreciate how much safer the car feels with heavy steering. Perhaps do some new bushings throughout the car and see if you appreciate the steering feel more.

 

This is a turbocharged car with 4-cylinders and massive turbo lag by modern standards. Your Sequoia has twice as much torque from 1000 RPM than our little EJ engines do. It'll get going from a stop smoother and easier.

 

I would say that this is probably not the best car to learn stick on, or at least any Subaru isn't, because of how jerky they tend to be compared to other cars. Double so for modern Subarus with tons of rev hang. Given that you got it for cheap and it's seen some days, it's probably not a terrible car to thrash the clutch on for some newbie. Just know that, of all the manual cars I've driven (all synchromesh), my car is always the one I screw up the most in. My car needs some special care given to rev-matching to be smooth compared to my old Honda, the Nissan Hardbody I learned on, and the hundreds of other cars I've gotten to drive at work. If your sons can drive these things smooth, then they can drive just about anything made in the last 40 or 50 years.

[boxkita]

if you are going to let your sons learn to drive a manual, then they'll have a chance to replace the clutch. Might even get a chance to rebuild/replace the transmission.

 

Speed-shifting the 5 speed is going to destroy 3 & 4 pretty fast. Once those go, 5th isn't far behind. experience:)

[Max Capacity]

To teach your son. First with the engine off, let him play with the clutch pedal with his left leg. then have him master letting it very slowly.

 

Then once engine is running, repeat that process.

 

Next step, with engine at idle, tranny in first gear, right foot off the gas, let the clutch out very slowly until he feels the car begin to move. that will teach him where the clutch grabs.

 

Oh, do this in a "large" empty parking lot, not on city streets.

 

I took my son to the place I worked at on a Sunday morning. Use the parking lot to learn how to drive in. maybe a Shopping Mall on a Sunday morning.

[lagwagon]

Lol is your username in reference to the band?!

 

 

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Not specifically, I guess call it a happy alignment. I was more of a BR, Pennywise, AFI, Face to Face fan, not to say I don’t like Lagwagon (I do) but I wasn’t thinking of the band when I chose the name.

[dgoodhue]

I'm getting the accessport from him so I'll wait for it to arrive and hook it up. Thanks

 

If it had a stage 2 tune previously and the AP was removed, I would avoid any boost until you get another AP.

[paul85]

I got the AP. It was my understanding the AP does not need to be hooked up in order to have the tune working? I am done with the front for now. It's good enough to get it inspected and passed, but do want to get a passenger fender and new front bumper skin.

 

https://imgur.com/a/ZKXkeeP