Yet another new guy 05 OBXT build

[subisubisu]

Add more zip ties, it's a rite of passage.

 

Ha! So far the only zip tie I've used was to hold the chain wrapping the rear diff to the transmission jack.

[boxkita]

you should be able to get the intro package on amazon of baling wire, bubble gum, and zip ties pretty cheap. Some just set for delivery every 2 months.

[subisubisu]

Did I say I worked slowly? I do. But at last the rear end is out.

 

 

This doesn't show the diff itself or the spring/shock assemblies. I'll take comparison pics of those once I get the new assemblies built, before I install the 180 diff.

 

What is going into the rear end (heh heh). Included are the Whiteline KTA 124 parts with the parts they replace. I still need to adjust length before installation.

 

 

It was nice that the new stuff had the entire parking brake cables, but I got a face full of dirt pulling off the belly pans to route the cables, and the manual says you need to roll up the carpet, which I tried doing but turned out not to be necessary, just disconnecting the parking brake lever and removing the center console. Anyway, they're installed, as are the Legacy GT bump stops (which Subaru calls "helpers") and the rear arms are in with bolts only snugged up at this point, not torqued. Of course all of the moving suspension parts should be torqued with the wheels at ride height, not drooped.

[Max Capacity]

Wow, lot of work there. Good progress.

[Scoobiidoo]

Just curious what is the preferred fuel pump upgrade? AEM 50-1000 or AEM 50-1215?

[Max Capacity]

Aem-320

[DaveWaters]

50-1215 is plug and play. The strainer in the box is rectangular so I replaced it with an oem style replacement. There’s a thread on here somewhere that has a part # for the strainer.

[Scoobiidoo]

Aem-320

 

Googling AEM 320 came up with part #50-1000. I just want to confirm that's the correct one for the OBXT/LGT.

 

Thanks

[subisubisu]

Fuel pump is in my future, and I have the rear seat out already so I'm guessing access is going to be easy.

 

Right now I'm frustrated, though. I went to put the R180 differential in, but I quit for the evening defeated to the point I'm searching parts numbers to see if I might have the wrong part. I can't get part #5 in this opposedforces.com diagram to seat in the rear subframe because the bolts (#3) are about a diameter too far forward.

 

 

So that means one of two things, I believe: either the part I have is wrong, or the differential needs to move a centimeter or so aft. It's not hard up against the rear crossmember, but the studs are going through the bushings and I have the nuts snugged up pretty well. That's not a super-high torque fastener, so I doubt that cranking the nuts down on the studs will pull the differential that far aft.

 

I don't want to believe that the part is wrong. It came as a kit out of a JDM Spec B, and presumably worked together before. The service manual doesn't say anything about compressing the differential against the rear crossmember, just basically plug it in and tighten it down.

 

The 2008 USDM Spec B would have part number 41310AG040 here. I'm not sure what I've got; hopefully it's stamped on the part and I'll see it in the morning. The OBXT part that came out is different - steel vs. the Spec B aluminum - but the holes seem to line up at about the same place. I'll take a tape measure to the R160 and R180 tomorrow to compare. Grrr.

[Max Capacity]

Googling AEM 320 came up with part #50-1000. I just want to confirm that's the correct one for the OBXT/LGT.

 

Thanks

 

Mine is a AEM 50-1215

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Max Capacity

[Max Capacity]

Fuel pump is in my future, and I have the rear seat out already so I'm guessing access is going to be easy.

 

Right now I'm frustrated, though. I went to put the R180 differential in, but I quit for the evening defeated to the point I'm searching parts numbers to see if I might have the wrong part. I can't get part #5 in this opposedforces.com diagram to seat in the rear subframe because the bolts (#3) are about a diameter too far forward.

 

[ATTACH]285544[/ATTACH]

 

So that means one of two things, I believe: either the part I have is wrong, or the differential needs to move a centimeter or so aft. It's not hard up against the rear crossmember, but the studs are going through the bushings and I have the nuts snugged up pretty well. That's not a super-high torque fastener, so I doubt that cranking the nuts down on the studs will pull the differential that far aft.

 

I don't want to believe that the part is wrong. It came as a kit out of a JDM Spec B, and presumably worked together before. The service manual doesn't say anything about compressing the differential against the rear crossmember, just basically plug it in and tighten it down.

 

The 2008 USDM Spec B would have part number 41310AG040 here. I'm not sure what I've got; hopefully it's stamped on the part and I'll see it in the morning. The OBXT part that came out is different - steel vs. the Spec B aluminum - but the holes seem to line up at about the same place. I'll take a tape measure to the R160 and R180 tomorrow to compare. Grrr.

 

 

Have you already tightened the nut's #1 ? if so I'd loosen them and line everything up and start all nuts and bolts before you tightened anything,

But you may already know that.

 

Did you replace item #2, if so are they in the correct position?

 

Just think about it, take a deep breath, you can figure this out.

[subisubisu]

Thanks for the encouragement. I tried a few things, and have had success. Which is to say that the diff is now like everything else I have installed, in place and tightened down but not torqued to final value. I expect that leverage is what finally solved the problem, but on the way to that I loosened the stud nuts to create a little movement ability, then dropped the nose of the diff down and attached the headstrap with the #3 bolts going down through the crosspiece. Then I was able to lever that into the subframe brackets with the transmission jack and a pry bar without a great deal of resistance. That, plus a night's rest and a better attitude.

 

So I went ahead and installed the rear axles, the top links and the front adjustable control arms from the Whiteline KTA 124 kit. I set the length of all the adjustable control arms to match the parts they are replacing, as an initial hack. The rear control arms are not on yet because I believe I am going to have to pry wider the hub attachment side - they are not spanning the bushing insert, just barely.

 

I'm not going to be able to work on the car for a week or so, so I'm calling a halt for now. I missed the 30 day warranty window on the 6MT swap kit, so now there's no rush. I have machinist friends who can help with fitting the control arms when I start up again, if I can't figure it out myself. I'm itching to build the spring/shock assemblies, but I am forcing myself to wait until I'm ready to install them since you have to keep them upright to avoid air intrusion once you have purged them.

[subisubisu]

Wow, time flies! A summer vacation led to a slowdown in the heavy maintenance bay, but I have been inching forward. I have pics, but I need to smallify them prior to posting. The rear end is pretty well done except for building one more shock/spring assembly (today's work) and putting weight on it for final torquing. Brake lines got moved over at last to the Spec B calipers on the hubs that came mounted to the aluminum trailing arms, and I inspected for the terrible hard line rusting problem and I don't seem to have it, so that's as much brake work as I expect to do at this point.

 

Up front I've removed all the suspension and the axles, and the original 5MT is out with the help of a friend, the only work that I haven't done solely myself so far on this project. I supported the engine with my cherry picker and removed the spacers between the engine support crossbeam and the chassis, and replaced the LCA rear studs with Legacy GT studs sans spacers, so the car is now 100% at Legacy height with respect to the suspension. The Tein HT springs I have will lower it a tad more.

 

The power steering gear rack showed some signs of leaking, and that was all I needed to push me over the edge to getting the quick-ratio STi rack to replace it, which is blowing up the budget a bit. I got a used STi link to connect the steering column for the slightly shorter connection due to the spacers being gone. I also am installing the Whiteline roll center kit, which gives me replacement tie rod ends. It's becoming quite a chore to remember which parts of the car are OBXT, which parts are LGT Spec B, and which are aftermarket.

 

Comparing the transmissions, the OBXT 5MT was a push-type clutch engagement and the Spec B 6MT is pull-type, so my hopes of just being able to mount the transmission to confirm drivetrain alignment prior to pulling the engine were dashed. I have the clutch and flywheel that came out of the JDM Spec B, but the vendor advised against reusing it, so I also ordered a WRX single mass flywheel and ACT Stage II clutch. The OBXT Sachs clutch is off, but....

 

I have reached the most enduring roadblock yet of my adventure. The Torx Plus 50 flywheel bolts are strongly resisting removal. I see that installation instructions are to torque them to 52.8 lb-ft, but they aren't budging with a 1/2" breaker bar with cheater pipe, or with the electric impact that's rated for 150 lb-ft, or even my compact air wrench that's rated for 550 lb-ft. I am seriously wondering whether they were installed with red Loctite or something similar. My MAP-Pro torch doesn't seem to be effective - people say that gas doesn't make a hot enough flame in the first place, and there's a lot of mass around each bolt to absorb heat. So, for the moment I'm stuck.

 

As I said, I wanted to verify the driveline and suspension changes with the engine in its original condition, to avoid possible increased troubleshooting complexity when installing everything after changing it. I also wanted another chance to run the engine a bit more to record some diagnostic info before pulling and rebuilding. But at this point I'm wondering if I might as well go ahead and pull the engine to get better access to the back side for removing those bolts, or possibly caving and taking it to the machine shop that I was going to use for leveling the deck for me.

Edited September 7, 2020 by subisubisu

[Max Capacity]

Here's what I used to get the T50+ out. 1/2" impact gun and 30 gallon air compressor.

 

 

I'am not sure this, "so I also ordered a WRX single mass flywheel and ACT Stage II clutch." is going to work with the 6MT.

 

The Spec B clutch set up is not the same as others you need a STI FW and Clutch set up if you want to go that way or call Spec Clutch and get the 2+ clutch for a Spec B. FW.

 

STI and Spec B have different FW's. Same pull type TOB.

 

 

That picture is the first Spec Clutch Aluminum FW with the replaceable friction surface. I currently have that back in my wagon. I enjoy the LWFW. Quick story about the FW. In June 2007 my wagon had 72,000 miles on it, The dealer had it on there rack for a 5mt issue. When the dealer told me the tranny had to come out, I wanted to have the clutch replaced. They gave me a day to get one. My son and I used to race with one of the guys that works at Spec Clutch, called him. They had just finish testing this LWFW as it was the last pre-production one. He cleaned it up that morning and had it and Spec 2+ clutch over-nighted to the Dealership.

BTW, My current 2+ was shipped by that friend after calling him at 10AM one day, they assembled the 2+ kit, I had the tracking number at 12:15PM that day.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Max Capacity

[subisubisu]

Thanks, Max. It looks like you separated the dual mass flywheel parts, unless that's a different flywheel in your picture. I'm peeking at mine through little windows from the mating surface disc, the one that rotates separately from the toothed portion of the flywheel. Did you remove that somehow to give better access to the bolt heads?

 

I considered obtaining a beefier air gun, but when I compared with how much torque the bolts are supposed to get on installation, I got worried about snapping off the heads with, say, a 1250 lb-ft impact.

[Max Capacity]

the DMFW was removed by the dealership when they installed the Spec LWFW. Which back in the day used the T50+ OEM bolts.

 

That picture is the Spec LWFW, after 85,000 miles. I bought the $79.00 Friction surface for the new clutch.

 

Here's the new friction surface,

 

 

I'm not sure if they still used the T50+ if you call may be ask them.

 

 

Most impact guns are adjustable, there is a knob you turn.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Max Capacity

[boxkita]

I've a pro-grade battery impact. 1400lbft. I used pb blaster several times over a couple of days, then bolted engine down so it didn't rock. Still had to use a 4' helper on a wrench to break it loose.

[subisubisu]

I've a pro-grade battery impact. 1400lbft. I used pb blaster several times over a couple of days, then bolted engine down so it didn't rock. Still had to use a 4' helper on a wrench to break it loose.

 

Wow! Is that for each of the 8 flywheel bolts? It's going to be hard to get that kind of leverage with the engine installed. Maybe I can use a jack to lift the end of a breaker bar.

 

I have a friend suggesting that we touch the center of the bolt heads with his TIG welder to heat up the bolt under the theory that there is thread locker involved. Kind of the same principle of the Bolt Buster, which uses induction to heat a nut or bolt head quickly. I looked at the Bolt Buster, but it's kind of pricey for what may be one-time use, and besides it looks like trouble to navigate the window of the rear-most portion of the dual-mass flywheel to get to the bolt heads.

[subisubisu]

I have to say that I'm a little surprised by this. When I ran into problems and started searching the internet for info, what I saw the most of was people experiencing stripped T+50 bolt heads and consequently having trouble getting their flywheels off. One guy had to grind off the heads to free the flywheel, but he said at that point he could use his fingers to spin the bolt shafts out. You might wonder about why the bolt heads got stripped in the first place. The obvious thought is using a plain T50 instead of Torx Plus in the past, but I suppose that the bolts could have been frozen, too. But I didn't see any mention of that.

[Chocoholic005]

what I saw the most of was people experiencing stripped T+50 bolt heads and consequently having trouble getting their flywheels off. One guy had to grind off the heads to free the flywheel, but he said at that point he could use his fingers to spin the bolt shafts out.

 

This exact thing happened to me 8 years ago...

[subisubisu]

This exact thing happened to me 8 years ago...

 

Was that you? Sorry, I didn't make notes as I went to give proper credits.

[Chocoholic005]

Was that you? Sorry, I didn't make notes as I went to give proper credits.

 

Probably not; not sure I posted about it. I think its just a common issue. The threading out by hand after cutting the heads off always baffled me.

[Max Capacity]

Probably not; not sure I posted about it. I think its just a common issue. The threading out by hand after cutting the heads off always baffled me.

 

The same thing also happens after you drill the heads off the Phillips counter sunk screws in the brake rotors on a Honda Civic. Once the heads are gone and you lift off the rotor you turn the threads out by hand.

 

It has something to do with the surface contact of the counter sunk screw. Smart Engineers at work couldn't figure what why that same thing happened on some of the counter sunk screws on the Frame members to product I used to assemble for Submarines. We always coated those screws with Moly-Kote GN Paste, threads and surface area. We assemblers always asked if we were over torquing them...

[subisubisu]

I can see that the head of the bolt, particularly if it's flanged, provides lots of surface area for friction or corrosive bonding. Lots of the suspension bolts I've pulled on this project have nice clean threads from where they were sheltered by nuts or the blind chassis hole, but corrosion where they were exposed. Grinding the head off such a bolt could easily remove the worst of the resistance. In the case of these TP50 flywheel bolts, I am also applying axial force to resist any tendency toward camming out of the bit, which would act to increase the force of the friction to be overcome. My first thought was that the excess friction must be in the threads, but it's not necessarily so.

 

Shipping updates tell me a couple of the tools I ordered should be here today, so maybe I can try again this evening with a real Torx Plus bit, instead of T50.

[Max Capacity]

OH, another trick I learned decades ago, you can make a home made impact gun by hitting the head of the 1/2" breaker bar while pushing in the off direction on the hand grip. A 3 lb or 5 lb hammer may work.