COVID-19 - who's got some?

[Enlight]

In this case they are talking about vaccines as required/encouraged by employers:

 

OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts.

 

At the risk of having my position misunderstood, I'll state explicitly I'm not against the vaccines. I'm glad we have them. I do, however, find it very interesting that there is a double-speak that is happening here. On the one hand, we are told that these vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. On the other hand, the federal agency responsible for worker safety is stating openly that it is not interested in collecting this data - even if it is employers requiring these vaccines. One would think that if these vaccines are as safe as they say they are, supporters would be interested in collecting as much data as they could to prove their positions. Somewhere, a cost-benefit decision has been made, and the decree is "full steam ahead."

Edited July 29, 2021 by Enlight

[ehsnils]

If you react bad to the vaccine, then you might have had a worse reaction to the virus.

 

 

And you might still fall ill from the virus, but at least yo havd a chance to overcome it without 6 weeks of intubation.

[Dre617]

I feel like there is a lot of double-speak mainly due to the chance of whatever statement said being taken out-of-context or being used in propaganda against something.

 

The original vaccine was to counter a original mutation, with the delta variance and who knows what else is coming down the pipeline with such lax vaccination rates, so people on both sides like to take earlier statement and use them for their narratives.

 

 

 

From my end, I know I got vaccinated due to trying to be aware of my surrounding family which were at a higher risk for the more severe reaction and for myself to avoid severe reaction. I know there is a chance I can get it but I rather have a tough cold than be stuck in the emergency room feeling like death.

 

 

 

The only thing I wished the medical professionals could pinpoint better is what factors really lead to such severe reactions, like "you have higher levels of protein so you may experience this or that" or something.

[Enlight]

The only thing I wished the medical professionals could pinpoint better is what factors really lead to such severe reactions, like "you have higher levels of protein so you may experience this or that" or something.

 

It seems to me that there is a binary approach to treatment right now. Once you catch COVID, you either get hospitalized or they tell you to stay home and quarantine. Either you get all the treatment, or you're told to take a Tylenol. That is what I've seen with a family friend who became a long-hauler. He was told by the hospitals to go home twice, and was only admitted on his third try after he started having sharp pains in his head. His O2 was down to 79% at one point.

 

To your point, Dre617, that doctor didn't even tell him to take Vitamin C, D, and Zinc. This hyper focus on the vaccine has taken attention away from other tools that should be part of a graduated approach. People shouldn't have to wait to get acute before they get treatment. This all happened just as vaccines were rolling out.

 

Unfortunately, our culture is at a place where these other treatments, which should be used in concert against COVID, are perceived as competitors to the vaccine. I believe this will become a bigger topic of debate in the months to come.

[HDTurbo]

Hold on. The issue is that we still know very little about the exquisitely complex immune system, esp. with so much obvious individual variation. A lot more evidence-based scientific studies need to be done to figure it out, let alone then propose and appropriately design tests, and then maybe be able to design, develop and validate safe and effective treatments. Supplements are largely unproven treatments.

[boxkita]

Hold on. The issue is that we still know very little about the exquisitely complex immune system, esp. with so much obvious individual variation. A lot more evidence-based scientific studies need to be done to figure it out, let alone then propose and appropriately design tests, and then maybe be able to design, develop and validate safe and effective treatments. Supplements are largely unproven treatments.

 

I've been experimenting with supplements since I moved to seattle 30 years ago. There's not enough sun to keep me healthy. I can move to tropics or I can supplement. I get about two days grace period before having to get back on them. When I visit sunnier places, I have to supplement the next morning and by the 2nd day I'm off them for the duration and a couple days at home.

 

It could be a placebo effect, but blood tests showed a difference. My doctor thinks I'm a loon too. ymmv

[HDTurbo]

If you're talking about vitamin D, yes, deficiencies are real, treatable with supplementation and concentrations monitored in serum. Minimum daily values for some 'vitamins' are somewhat well-established but not for treating varied maladies...But to randomly throw vitamins and other unproven supplements at a viral infection is uninformed. Hence the mileage will definitely vary! Anecdotal evidence is not good science.

[Enlight]

Mask mandates were instituted on the basis that they are a low-risk/high-reward intervention, despite there still being debate over its efficacy. What we see here, then, is the uneven application of scientific rigor.

 

Here is evidence in favor of vitamin D:

 

A retrospective study in the Philippines found that for each standard deviation increase in serum vitamin D people were 7.94 times more likely to have a mild rather than severe COVID-19 outcome and were 19.61 times more likely to have a mild rather than critical outcome. Another small retrospective study pre-print in New Orleans found that 84.6% of COVID-19 patients had vitamin D deficiency compared to 4% of patients not in ICU. Another study in Indonesia found in a cohort of 780 patients, after adjusting for age, gender, and comorbidities COVID-19 patients found: - 98.9% of patients with vitamin D deficiency died - 88% of patients with vitamin D insufficiency died - 4% of patients with sufficient vitamin D died.

Given the fact that most Americans are already deficient in this Vitamin that is already determined to be essential by establishment, and then taking into the dramatic difference in mortality outcomes above, shouldn't we be wondering why this isn't being recommended with mask mandates? On the basis of nil-risk/high-reward ratio this ought to be very obvious. Taking Vitamin D doesn't have to mean that people then won't take the vaccine.

 

In the end, I'm not trying to point to "this treatment or that," but the whole dichotomous framing that we have adopted in the fight against COVID. Understandably, in times of uncertainty, people seek security in consensus. However, we would be better served by dispassionate consideration of all avenues of treatment, even if they mean we need to course correct based on emerging evidence. This doesn't have to be ideological.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Enlight

[HDTurbo]

Don't get me wrong. I take vitamin supplementation, including D. I had COVID and didn't die. I'm continually concerned broadly by unproven claims, whether it's hydroxychloroquine, acupuncture, copper bracelets, antivaxxer claims...

The death of expertise, Dunning-Kruger, and fraudulent capitalism are real concerns, to me at least.

[HDTurbo]

You know, stuff like this...

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/near-fatal-blood-infection-following-naturopathic-iv-vitamin-infusion/

[DickDastardly00]

I'm not going to tell people what to do, but I'm still wearing a mask indoors and I never really stopped. It's inconvenient, sure, but if I'm asymptomatic, it could save someone else's life. There's a new data available that shows vaccinated people infected with the Delta strain are spreading it to others. Hence the new indoor mask guidelines, they are for everyone, vaccinated or not. People can make their own decisions, but I've made mine, we're not out of the woods just yet.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-fully-vaccinated-people-can-spread-delta-variant-2021-7?op=1

Edited July 30, 2021 by DickDastardly00

[boxkita]

So ppl don't get a yearly flu shot for $15, and won't get the covid shot for free; do we actually expect ppl to take booster shots yearly?

 

Perhaps voting booths can put up a vaccine shot at same time? No shot, no vote.

[RWebb]

So ppl don't get a yearly flu shot for $15, and won't get the covid shot for free; do we actually expect ppl to take booster shots yearly?

 

Perhaps voting booths can put up a vaccine shot at same time? No shot, no vote.

No ID no vote? I needed an ID to get a shot.

[boxkita]

No ID no vote? I needed an ID to get a shot.

 

you need id to vote. Or has that changed too?

[laz]

The ID thing for voting is so weird for me. Both states (NY, FL) that I lived in require ID and signature to vote.

 

The girl that gave me the second shot was so good with the needle. She was also a hottie.

[laz]

you need id to vote. Or has that changed too?

 

I think in some states you don’t.

[RWebb]

The girl that gave me the second shot was so good with the needle. She was also a hottie.

Tell me more

 

 

As for Voter ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States

[ehsnils]

So ppl don't get a yearly flu shot for $15, and won't get the covid shot for free; do we actually expect ppl to take booster shots yearly?

 

Perhaps voting booths can put up a vaccine shot at same time? No shot, no vote.

 

 

Or a hidden jet injector in a stool in the voting booth.

[ehsnils]

CDC document warns Delta variant appears to spread as easily as chickenpox and cause more severe infection

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/29/politics/cdc-masks-covid-19-infections/index.html

[laz]

Tell me more

 

 

As for Voter ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States

 

Florida says non strict but they made sign twice because my signature looked slightly different than what they had.

 

Chick was talk and brown hair. Super nice young elbows.

[laz]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/29/politics/cdc-masks-covid-19-infections/index.html

 

Bit does it affect the right to bear arms? Does it make liberals cry?

[boxkita]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/29/politics/cdc-masks-covid-19-infections/index.html

 

"Read the news. You'll see stories of unvaccinated patients in hospitals, as they're lying in bed dying from Covid-19, they're asking, 'Doc, can I get the vaccine?' The doctors have to say, 'Sorry, it's too late.' " "

 

too bad the media burned all credibility last year on the election. Hard to tell fake news from actual. Since there's no actual indication of this being "real", there's not much rush to do anything.

 

Ppl are allowed to not wear masks for political, medical, etc reasons, so belief in actual news continues to drop. If it was actually serious, there'd be zero tolerance. Wear a mask or stay home.

[xt2005bonbon]

In other news, I finally decided to get my first shot. I hate needles

[Enlight]

CDC study shows 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated

 

About three-fourths of people infected in a Massachusetts Covid-19 outbreak were fully vaccinated against the coronavirus with four of them ending up in the hospital, according to new data published Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

 

The new data, published in the U.S. agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people, and could spread it to other individuals.

[laz]

In other news, I finally decided to get my first shot. I hate needles

 

You have to get the right person. My first shot hurt more than the second one. The second one was administered by a super hot woman. She was really delicate. The first one was administered by a dude that looked like Boss Hog. That one hurt for days.

 

YMMV