2009 Subaru Outback 3.0R Timing Chain Rattle

[99 rs]

I'm currently in the middle of doing a timing chain replacement on our 2009 Subaru Outback 3.0R. The car has 251,000 kms and recently it started making a hell of a racket either in the engine itself or under the timing cover. I admit it sounded more to me like being in the area directly under the alternator but every forum post says it's the guides/tensioners so I went with it. I pulled everything apart (what an effing PITA those Allen bolts are) and when I went to inspect the chain it's really loose on top on the passenger side and I would say "normal" tight on the bottom. I'm pretty sure if I tried hard enough I could pull the chain off the guide kind of like in the video around the 7-8 second mark.

 

My question is: is the tensioner strong enough to supposed to be able to "spin" the cams/crank and make everything tight? I thought it would be but now I'm not so sure. I'll be checking the timing tomorrow so maybe I just have to manually "tighten" the crank sprocket back/forward by moving the chain a tooth. I'm still going to replace everything but if anyone has any insight while everything is apart that'd be great.

 

For future people I'm doing this on July 20/21, 2019.

 

Before:

 

During:

 

 

Current state:

[waynieRS]

i wouldve done basic check with a screw driver as a stethoscope before pulling anything apart .... you may have just started a job that doesnt need doing and be a simple ALT replacement

[waynieRS]

my 06 H6 has done 256k and i have little bit of noise from the ALT very similar to your noise ..

[nevets27]

Wasn't the idler/tentioner bearing for the assesory belt also known to go bad and make noise? Just something else that it might be worth looking at. From my understanding it was that and the timing chain tentioners that where the most common failures.

[99 rs]

Thanks WaynieRS and nevets27, I suspect both of you may be right.

 

WaynieRS, I decided to take on the job because of an odd set of circumstances with my particular dealership. They did the airbag recall but damaged some interior pieces which are no longer available. So I had a decent sized credit and decided to put it towards the complete timing chain job (all OEM parts to boot). I'll post pictures as I do it but basically for all of the parts including an OEM water pump and all guides, bolts, radiator hoses etc. it was ~$375 compared to almost $2000 retail.

 

****************************

 

Finally got going on this again and I decided to pull the valve covers to measure the valve clearances. I don't know how people could possibly pull the covers without jacking the engine up but well done to those people! In my case I had to put some wood under the engine mount. Bonus is while undoing the engine mounts, pitch stop in particular, I think I found what was causing my knocking when the engine rocked back and forth.

 

In this picture I'm putting very minimal amount of force and the bushing is already compressing.

 

 

 

Now for the possible major problem. For some reason, one entire bank of valves is out of clearance (passenger exhaust side). This one has me puzzled as all of my googling shows that usually with something catastrophic it's the whole cylinder head that has issues (not just the exhaust side of one head). Other guys have a couple of clearance issues on random valves but not every single one all in a line. The opinion so far seems to be "just leave it" as it's better loose than tight especially for the amount of kilometereage (mileage) this car has (251k kms). If this car didn't have the stupid buckets and the rear timing chain cover then I'd just go ahead and do them but it's a lot of extra work. The valve ticking noise existed ever since we bought it @~180k kms and hasn't gotten worse. What are your thoughts on the measurements? You can hear the ticking in the first video I posted.

 

[waynieRS]

hello mate .. are these not hydraulic ?.. mine has just clicked over 257k and apart from a bit of noise from the ALT you wouldnt know the engine is running

[waynieRS]

Thanks WaynieRS and nevets27, I suspect both of you may be right.

 

WaynieRS, I decided to take on the job because of an odd set of circumstances with my particular dealership. They did the airbag recall but damaged some interior pieces which are no longer available. So I had a decent sized credit and decided to put it towards the complete timing chain job (all OEM parts to boot). I'll post pictures as I do it but basically for all of the parts including an OEM water pump and all guides, bolts, radiator hoses etc. it was ~$375 compared to almost $2000 retail.

 

****************************

 

Finally got going on this again and I decided to pull the valve covers to measure the valve clearances. I don't know how people could possibly pull the covers without jacking the engine up but well done to those people! In my case I had to put some wood under the engine mount. Bonus is while undoing the engine mounts, pitch stop in particular, I think I found what was causing my knocking when the engine rocked back and forth.

 

In this picture I'm putting very minimal amount of force and the bushing is already compressing.

 

 

 

Now for the possible major problem. For some reason, one entire bank of valves is out of clearance (passenger exhaust side). This one has me puzzled as all of my googling shows that usually with something catastrophic it's the whole cylinder head that has issues (not just the exhaust side of one head). Other guys have a couple of clearance issues on random valves but not every single one all in a line. The opinion so far seems to be "just leave it" as it's better loose than tight especially for the amount of kilometereage (mileage) this car has (251k kms). If this car didn't have the stupid buckets and the rear timing chain cover then I'd just go ahead and do them but it's a lot of extra work. The valve ticking noise existed ever since we bought it @~180k kms and hasn't gotten worse. What are your thoughts on the measurements? You can hear the ticking in the first video I posted.

 

 

have a read of this mate ... they are hydraulic by the sound of it ... and there is a set way to check

http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/index.php?/topic/137818-30r-spec-b-valves-calibration/

[waynieRS]

https://legacyiv.weebly.com/body.html

[99 rs]

They are indeed hydraulic but they still have clearances to check/measure between the cam lobes and the buckets. The link you posted I believe is for older style engines that actually have shims (not buckets) so unfortunately that won't work.

 

Thanks for the link to the service manual and I can confirm that's the one I'm using. You can even see the "front" of the page in my measurement picture .

 

With my car being @251k kms I decided not take anything further apart. Looser is better and I'll see what happens I suppose. It has been like this for a 3rd of it's life so I'll cross my fingers it'll last a while longer.

[waynieRS]

They are indeed hydraulic but they still have clearances to check/measure between the cam lobes and the buckets. The link you posted I believe is for older style engines that actually have shims (not buckets) so unfortunately that won't work.

 

Thanks for the link to the service manual and I can confirm that's the one I'm using. You can even see the "front" of the page in my measurement picture .

 

With my car being @251k kms I decided not take anything further apart. Looser is better and I'll see what happens I suppose. It has been like this for a 3rd of it's life so I'll cross my fingers it'll last a while longer.

 

good stuff . box her up and have the cam rolling for the first turn over ... good luck

[funnyman06]

Did the rattle go away? Do you think it was the pitch stop mount?

[waynieRS]

Thanks WaynieRS and nevets27, I suspect both of you may be right.

 

WaynieRS, I decided to take on the job because of an odd set of circumstances with my particular dealership. They did the airbag recall but damaged some interior pieces which are no longer available. So I had a decent sized credit and decided to put it towards the complete timing chain job (all OEM parts to boot). I'll post pictures as I do it but basically for all of the parts including an OEM water pump and all guides, bolts, radiator hoses etc. it was ~$375 compared to almost $2000 retail.

 

****************************

 

Finally got going on this again and I decided to pull the valve covers to measure the valve clearances. I don't know how people could possibly pull the covers without jacking the engine up but well done to those people! In my case I had to put some wood under the engine mount. Bonus is while undoing the engine mounts, pitch stop in particular, I think I found what was causing my knocking when the engine rocked back and forth.

 

In this picture I'm putting very minimal amount of force and the bushing is already compressing.

 

 

 

Now for the possible major problem. For some reason, one entire bank of valves is out of clearance (passenger exhaust side). This one has me puzzled as all of my googling shows that usually with something catastrophic it's the whole cylinder head that has issues (not just the exhaust side of one head). Other guys have a couple of clearance issues on random valves but not every single one all in a line. The opinion so far seems to be "just leave it" as it's better loose than tight especially for the amount of kilometereage (mileage) this car has (251k kms). If this car didn't have the stupid buckets and the rear timing chain cover then I'd just go ahead and do them but it's a lot of extra work. The valve ticking noise existed ever since we bought it @~180k kms and hasn't gotten worse. What are your thoughts on the measurements? You can hear the ticking in the first video I posted.

 

 

well mate how did you get on ?

[99 rs]

Did the rattle go away? Do you think it was the pitch stop mount?

 

Yes it did!!!! The valve ticking sound went completely away with the new tensioner. The mini rattle was actually the accessory belt tensioner. I'll write up a quick blurb in 1 or 2 posts below.

 

well mate how did you get on ?

 

Car has been running and driving for a little bit now

[99 rs]

This whole job started for me when a local dealer did the airbag recall on our Outback. In the process of them doing the recall they gouged up some interior panels which are unfortunately no longer available. We came to a mutual agreement (they were very very good about the whole thing so well played to them) about applying credit towards some parts. I knew the tensioner was starting to fail so I sat down with the parts guy and just pointed to every part I could see on the timing chain diagram. In the end, for all of the OEM parts, it ended up being ~$370 CAD which is an excellent price. Things like the fluids, valve cover items, etc. were all extra but at least the car will be ready for more -30 Celsius winters.

 

Other issues the car had was a sticking front left brake caliper which was miss diagnosed as a front differential failure. We were completely ready just to sell the car (with all of the uninstalled timing parts) but luckily, we decided to hose it down for pictures. When I did I noticed the front left rotor vapourized the water quite readily whereas the passenger side didn’t. When I came home I measured the temperatures and passenger side was 57 Celsius and driver side was up to 208 (all without exceeding 50 km/h for about 15 minutes). I did a few additional items like struts, tie rods, polished some headlights, and then replaced a front parking sensor during this whole process too.

 

This thread will be mostly pictures and I won’t elaborate too much into anything. If something catches your eye let me know and I’ll explain it further.

 

Here is the car before doing any work. Has a few issues for having 250,000 kms on it but overall, the wife really likes it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[99 rs]

 

 

 

 

 

The driver side seat is wearing on the bolsters

 

[99 rs]

 

 

 

After we took the above pictures we measured the rotor temperatures.

 

Passenger side @ 57:

 

 

Driver side @ 208:

 

 

Beginning disassembly:

 

[99 rs]

After removing the easy stuff including radiator I tried to hold the crank pulley with a strap wrench…..that didn’t work. Then I went out and bought a stubby impact wrench……that didn’t work. Then I rigged up a fairly sketchy contraption using a Toyota 2JZ crank pulley holder tool, 2 bolts just taped into the holder, a milk crate and 2 breaker bars. Worked like a charm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

After that it was time for the allen bolts. Most of mine came out but every single freaking one was filled with rust to the point where you couldn’t even get the tool in. I had to scrape out the centers. What a stupid bolt style for our climate.

 

 

[99 rs]

I made a makeshift template of where each bolt goes since there are 3 different sizes. I bought all replacement bolts anyways but at this point I wasn’t sure if everything that I ordered was correct (in quantity).

 

 

 

 

I had to cut a few off them apart. You guys in fair weather climates have no idea how good you have it.

 

 

After much time passed I got to where I needed to be.

[99 rs]

Pile of parts accumulating.

 

 

 

 

Also figured I would check the valve clearances (which you guys already knew about). The valve cover bolts did not want to come out easily.

 

[99 rs]

 

 

Passenger side was easy. The driver side I had to jack the engine up meaning undo engine mounts and drop exhaust.

 

 

[99 rs]

 

 

Eventually got them both off and measured the clearances (more on that later).

 

Then with nothing else left to take apart started tackling the chain stuff.

 

 

Before putting everything back I degreased all parts and left half of the engine on my deck

 

[99 rs]

 

 

 

Cleanup of the mating surface took much longer than I expected but overall it turned out nice. Note, make sure to clean everything up before you take the old stuff apart (even before you unbolt any of the idlers as that opens up oil passages where the small silicone bits can fall into).

 

 

 

[99 rs]

 

 

 

Here was my box of parts. Really small box relatively speaking but many many things inside. Mostly OEM.

 

 

 

 

[99 rs]

 

 

 

For the valve cover area:

 

 

 

 

Now for the removal. It’s really straight forward. Set the passenger side intake cam with the arrow pointing up. Make sure crank is facing up as well. And that’s it. Really simple.

 

After it’s set start by removing the tensioner. In my case this was the culprit of my timing chain slap.

 

[99 rs]

 

 

 

 

The chains are different lengths