What did you do to your 4th gen. Legacy today? Vol - 10

[Enlight]

5 hours ago, blide said:

The photos are great.  If anyone has photos for the fuel line routing with our setup, especially with the top mount intercooler in place, I'd like to see it.  This is on my to do list at some point and having a reference would make the process much easier.  Don't have to reinvent the wheel so to speak.

Here are some pages I found in the manual while trying to understand our fueling setup.

[m sprank]

Not too many people use a top mount and try to make power.  Its an LGT thing mainly.  I never understood the lgt owners reluctance to go fmic.  They work sooooo much better. 

What I did dealing with the AP fuel line/rail set up (customer supplied) for this STi.  Its a top mount. 

[m sprank]

I wrote this up LONG ago too:

 

[Enlight]

15 minutes ago, m sprank said:

I wrote this up LONG ago too:

 

Too bad that thread is closed to replies and pictures are not embedded. Do you want to create a new thread, @m sprank?

P.S. Man those pictures would've been helpful pre-ECM lol.

[m sprank]

Ask and ye shall receive:

 

[rhino6303]

1 hour ago, m sprank said:

Not too many people use a top mount and try to make power.  Its an LGT thing mainly.  I never understood the lgt owners reluctance to go fmic.  They work sooooo much better.

I believe it was because there were (and still are) very few LGT friendly options; everyone wanted to keep their foglights and not completely destroy the bumper to make them fit.

WRX/STI platforms had so many more options (understandably so).

[m sprank]

It was money.  A member figured out how to make a generic Godspeed kit fit the 05-07LGT.  The kit could be had for under $500.  Then said member went on a quest to make a similar, cheap, 05-09 lgt specific kit.  He succeeded and the kit sold very well for around $700.  Other inexpensive "Chinese" kits then came into play.  All around $700. 

These kits did not fit great.  But retained the crash beam and fogs.  Attributes LGT owners demanded.  Some kits had cores with pressure drops so high stock turbos lost power.  It was sad.

ETS came out with a kit that fit well and worked AMAZING.  Alas, you get what you pay for and the kits retail starting at around $1200. They also lose the crash beam.  Lgt owners never caught on. 

Grimspeed came out with a tmic that worked maybe as well as a PW.  Meaning not anywhere near as well as the ets, but better than a Perrin/AVO/knockoff.  They sold for about $800. GS won the marketing game with lgt owners. 

I purchased the last lgt perrin fmic ever made brand new. I saved it for a few years and then installed it in Spider Pig.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by m sprank

[rhino6303]

I made a rod stretch gauge today for under $15. Not too shabby.

[NORULZleggy]

13 hours ago, m sprank said:

It was money.  A member figured out how to make a generic Godspeed kit fit the 05-07LGT.  The kit could be had for under $500.  Then said member went on a quest to make a similar, cheap, 05-09 lgt specific kit.  He succeeded and the kit sold very well for around $700.  Other inexpensive "Chinese" kits then came into play.  All around $700. 

These kits did not fit great.  But retained the crash beam and fogs.  Attributes LGT owners demanded.  Some kits had cores with pressure drops so high stock turbos lost power.  It was sad.

ETS came out with a kit that fit well and worked AMAZING.  Alas, you get what you pay for and the kits retail starting at around $1200. They also lose the crash beam.  Lgt owners never caught on. 

Grimspeed came out with a tmic that worked maybe as well as a PW.  Meaning not anywhere near as well as the ets, but better than a Perrin/AVO/knockoff.  They sold for about $800. GS won the marketing game with lgt owners. 

I purchased the last lgt perrin fmic ever made brand new. I saved it for a few years and then installed it in Spider Pig.  

@m sprank So are you saying we should have a FMIC or TMIC? I have no problem with getting a FMIC, I just want to find a kit that really works well.

So searching, ETS has a kit that will work for  05-09 SUBARU LEGACY GT. Is there something priced better?

Edited June 28, 2023 by NORULZleggy

[BoozeRS05]

I would love to go FMIC, but limited options without hacking bumpers and beams, and a reasonable cost option.

[WRX USA]

18 hours ago, m sprank said:

It was money.  A member figured out how to make a generic Godspeed kit fit the 05-07LGT.  The kit could be had for under $500.  Then said member went on a quest to make a similar, cheap, 05-09 lgt specific kit.  He succeeded and the kit sold very well for around $700.  Other inexpensive "Chinese" kits then came into play.  All around $700. 

These kits did not fit great.  But retained the crash beam and fogs.  Attributes LGT owners demanded.  Some kits had cores with pressure drops so high stock turbos lost power.  It was sad.

ETS came out with a kit that fit well and worked AMAZING.  Alas, you get what you pay for and the kits retail starting at around $1200. They also lose the crash beam.  Lgt owners never caught on. 

Grimspeed came out with a tmic that worked maybe as well as a PW.  Meaning not anywhere near as well as the ets, but better than a Perrin/AVO/knockoff.  They sold for about $800. GS won the marketing game with lgt owners. 

I purchased the last lgt perrin fmic ever made brand new. I saved it for a few years and then installed it in Spider Pig.  

Does the ETS retain the fog lights?
 

454hp/442tq isn’t bad on a TMIC, understood it could be more with a FMIC. For me it was about retaining the front crash beam. I have a Syms lightweight beam that I haven’t installed because of that.

[NORULZleggy]

7 minutes ago, WRX USA said:

Does the ETS retain the fog lights?
 

454hp/442tq isn’t bad on a TMIC, understood it could be more with a FMIC. For me it was about retaining the front crash beam. I have a Syms lightweight beam that I haven’t installed because of that.

yes, I need that safety for my car, I am not looking to go big numbers, and My car sits alot in the garage. I am happy with the power it makes.

[Code]

I still run my racerx fmic. 12 years old or so.  375hp/475tq on e85.  It works fine but is on my list to be upgraded if it ever fails.  I’ve replaced all of the clamps with Murrays.  
 

I think ets has a kit that comes with a new crash beam. 

[m sprank]

NO one is making a true 450awhp with a tmic.  But I can make the dyno produce any number you want.

ETS includes a mounting beam. No one can call them a crash beam, they are not tested for that.  You can keep your fogs with an ETS if using the standard core. 

Not sure what a reasonable price is to people. $1200 for a GOOD fmic is not unreasonable to me. I could accept even more for quality. 

RacerX.  Winner, winner chicken dinner. That's the alluded to kit and story. I named the company for the member, lol. My 08 SpecB was the fit car. I made the kit fit with an OEM airbox claiming title to first lgt ever with fmic and stock airbox.  I made 400awhp with the kit.  It was worth maybe $500 and sold for $700.  But there were almost no other options at the time. When other options in the same price range became available they were no better. 

What's a GS tmic go for these days? if they are still north of $800 why would $1200 for infinitely more power capability and lower charge air temp not be worth it?  With proper set up you can eliminate any throttle response lag associated to the larger core and tubing.

Just odd to me that WRX/STi owners never cared about losing beams and fogs for a fmic but LGT owners did.  

[blide]

4 hours ago, m sprank said:

NO one is making a true 450awhp with a tmic.  But I can make the dyno produce any number you want.

ETS includes a mounting beam. No one can call them a crash beam, they are not tested for that.  You can keep your fogs with an ETS if using the standard core. 

Not sure what a reasonable price is to people. $1200 for a GOOD fmic is not unreasonable to me. I could accept even more for quality. 

RacerX.  Winner, winner chicken dinner. That's the alluded to kit and story. I named the company for the member, lol. My 08 SpecB was the fit car. I made the kit fit with an OEM airbox claiming title to first lgt ever with fmic and stock airbox.  I made 400awhp with the kit.  It was worth maybe $500 and sold for $700.  But there were almost no other options at the time. When other options in the same price range became available they were no better. 

What's a GS tmic go for these days? if they are still north of $800 why would $1200 for infinitely more power capability and lower charge air temp not be worth it?  With proper set up you can eliminate any throttle response lag associated to the larger core and tubing.

Just odd to me that WRX/STi owners never cared about losing beams and fogs for a fmic but LGT owners did.  

I can only speak for myself but I'm almost 50.  My boy racer days are long gone.  I drive a Legacy because I like the extra comfort and I'd like to keep the safety.  I also don't need to make 500hp.  I'm tuned to right around 300hp and that's about right for me.  I want reliable and safe since this is my daily driver.  My family rides in the car as well.  The TMIC works fine for my purposes.  Everything I've done is to try to keep it as reliable as possible.  There's a few other things I'd like to do to make working on the car easier, like redoing the fuel delivery system and getting rid of the stupid under intake setup.  Anyway, I don't want to get rid of fog lights or the crash beam.  I also don't want to deal with all of the piping for the FMIC.  Just my perspective.  

Bobby

[lagwagon]

Got my car back from the shop with JDM tgv deletes installed, ap v3 to replace the v2 and to tune out the tgv codes. So far so good. Need to drive it more to get the dam back up to 1 and run the new cable to the mount so I can watch things. Also added a 2011 legacy 3.6r to the stable but that’s for a different forum.

[m sprank]

14 hours ago, blide said:

I can only speak for myself but I'm almost 50.  My boy racer days are long gone.  I drive a Legacy because I like the extra comfort and I'd like to keep the safety.  I also don't need to make 500hp.  I'm tuned to right around 300hp and that's about right for me.  I want reliable and safe since this is my daily driver.  My family rides in the car as well.  The TMIC works fine for my purposes.  Everything I've done is to try to keep it as reliable as possible.  There's a few other things I'd like to do to make working on the car easier, like redoing the fuel delivery system and getting rid of the stupid under intake setup.  Anyway, I don't want to get rid of fog lights or the crash beam.  I also don't want to deal with all of the piping for the FMIC.  Just my perspective.  

Bobby

I am 50. Even my wifes LGT ran fmic. This is not a new situation. It has been ongoing aince 2005. Even when the cars were in their prime LGT owners went tmic.  

An fmic is more "reliable" than a tmic. The job is to cool the charge air. Even the RacerX did that better than the availble tmics. The problem was the pressure drop across the core. Had to work the turbo harder to make up for it  

[m sprank]

Finally.  2007 LGT SpecB.  Belonged to a forum member.  No fuel lines, but an ETS FMIC, with fogs and she is making POWER.  I had to rebuild the engine on this one and the owner allowed me to make some changes to the set up during the rebuild.  The car was purchased with a "built" engine that was performing as expected and was low on compression.  Imagine that?

Pix of previous engine as I disassembled:

Pix during my assembly (the good ole days):

Pix of the long block ready for final assembly:

PIx of the final build:

Pic on the dyno (fogs retained):

Pix of the results.  Delicious Tuning Flex Fuel Kit.  Tuned by Bill Knose owner of Delicious Tuning. 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by m sprank

[NORULZleggy]

21 hours ago, m sprank said:

I am 50. Even my wifes LGT ran fmic. This is not a new situation. It has been ongoing aince 2005. Even when the cars were in their prime LGT owners went tmic.  

An fmic is more "reliable" than a tmic. The job is to cool the charge air. Even the RacerX did that better than the availble tmics. The problem was the pressure drop across the core. Had to work the turbo harder to make up for it  

@m sprank I really hate you  , joking man, I am now going to buy the ETS front mount kit and sell my Grimmspeed top mount kit. Soon as I told my tuner and shop, they said oh hell yeah and the ETS kit is the best. So soon I will have it.

[boxkita]

With @m sprank posting historical pics, I thought I'd add a pic.

The wagon was under-tired at the track. So I convinced my tire shop to mock up sizes until we found the widest tire that would fit.

I ordered a set of Enkei RPF1's in special color 18x9.5 et 35. They were beautiful smoky chrome color. The test fit minus tires looked like a perfect fit.

The Hoosier 275/30/18 race slicks were really spiffy on the rims. Sitting on the alignment rack it was perfect. hella-flush. the wheel wells were full....that should have been the first clue of what was to come.

It rolled...sort of. Without any one in it. Actually doing something, it scraped everywhere. I was sad. Ultimately sold everything at a loss and moved onto slicks on 225/18. They were enough, not like the 275, but enough.

 the 225/18 supersports look wimpy beside the 275 hoosier 

[m sprank]

That tire fit test was balls out expensive.  I have never been able to fit 255 x 18 on an LGT without major fender work.  Last time I did it was Spider Pig.  Not a great shot, but she is sitting on 255 x 18 that have track time. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by m sprank

[m sprank]

1 hour ago, NORULZleggy said:

@m sprank I really hate you  , joking man, I am now going to buy the ETS front mount kit and sell my Grimmspeed top mount kit. Soon as I told my tuner and shop, they said oh hell yeah and the ETS kit is the best. So soon I will have it.

I had not looked a the price of a GS intercooler in years.  STICKER SHOCK!!!!  Over $1200 for thermal coating and STi style turbo.  WTF?????  ETS price has gone up as well I see, inflation sucks.  But, for $500 more than a GS tmic its well worth it. 

 

Oh, and I ran KSTech 3" intakes with the ETS kit.  Great fit, great performance, great price.  Local USA made.  https://www.kstech.biz/legacy-gt-stockmaf-cold-air-intake-type-2/

Edited June 30, 2023 by m sprank

[BoozeRS05]

On 6/28/2023 at 3:18 PM, Code said:

I still run my racerx fmic. 12 years old or so.  375hp/475tq on e85.  It works fine but is on my list to be upgraded if it ever fails.  I’ve replaced all of the clamps with Murrays.  
 

I think ets has a kit that comes with a new crash beam. 

I’d be happy to take this off your hands when the time comes to upgrade.

[Code]

@m sprank do you know if the ets plays nice with GS intake?

 

@BoozeRS05maybe sooner than later if we keep it  up with all  this ets talk. I think I have about $300 worth of clamps on a $600 intercooler kit.  I’ve always disliked thIS KITS hot side routing with an LGT/style turbo. 
 

I haven’t followed all of the BS that’s been going on with EPA Regs. Can I still get my car retuned with all of my sensor deletes and shit?  I have no air pump or TGV,s, rear o2 being ignored and no more MAF bcuz speed-density and flex fuel.  

[WRX USA]

5 minutes ago, Code said:

@m sprank do you know if the ets plays nice with GS intake?

 

@BoozeRS05maybe sooner than later if we keep it  up with all  this ets talk. I think I have about $300 worth of clamps on a $600 intercooler kit.  I’ve always disliked thIS KITS hot side routing with an LGT/style turbo. 
 

I haven’t followed all of the BS that’s been going on with EPA Regs. Can I still get my car retuned with all of my sensor deletes and shit?  I have no air pump or TGV,s, rear o2 being ignored and no more MAF bcuz speed-density and flex fuel.  

I know in Oregon if I wanted any new tune from Surgeline (regardless of whether I’m adding any new parts) it would require me to add the IAG TGV deletes V3 (https://www.iagperformance.com/iag-v3-top-feed-tgv-housings-with-butterfly-pass-thru-06-14-wrx-07-sti-07-12-lgt-09-13-fxt/)