Dalee1104 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Hello everybody, been awhile as the cars have been functioning as is. Funny how that works lol Anyways I've been reading some of the suspensions stickies for a few hours now and been looking at the different revisions for the bilstein shocks used on the legacy's throughout the usdm and jdm markets and such. Reason being I'd like a change in my suspensions. It's nice and I like the comfort of it but the car is developing some saggy butt and also theres a little more body roll than I'd like when canyon carving and such. The struts are the factory spec b with 125k miles now so I'm assuming most of this is due to age and wear at this point. In the sticky it mentioned just about everything but very briefly grazed over the 08 suspension setup but even then wasnt totally for sure on what kind of revisions were used. I know this forum exists of many people who have looked for similar things that I'm searching for so I figured I'd give it a shot. I like the comfort of the current revision bilsteins but am unsure what rev. they are, I wouldn't be opposed to slightly more oriented. The car is stage 2 at this point and is mostly a daily driver but on the weekends I get some of the Subaru community to meet up and hit the canyon roads nearby. The last run showed me I need new brakes which I'm ordering very shortly, and I also need less body roll around the high speed corners. In your guys opinion is this more easily achieved with new struts? thicker sway bars? Strut tower bars? I'd also love to solve the butt sag while I'm at it and possibly lower the car no more than a half inch but just a tiny bit more than where the front sits. What's your guys opinions on what you like? What I might like as well? Also in the market for tires Complete side note, on stage 2 what's good boost psi levels, I'm building 18psi reliably with the DAM staying solid, is this average numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Budget? "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 Well being a broke teenager the more of a bargain the better for me. I'd like to spend around 600 but not much more if possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 20-22mm Rear sway bar with avo reinforcement mounts and the best tires that you can afford. "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevets27 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Well shocks are kind of important if they are worn out. A rear sway bar added to car with everything else worn out doesn't seem like a good way to spend your money. At least that's my opinion. No advice on what bilstein to suggest. I can say going to koni from worn kyb's was a huge improvement. Including new bushings. Get some newer shocks, new front LCA bushings. Then add a sway bar. But there's a reason street cars come with a small rear sway bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 $600 budget? With “everything” worn out? Maybe just get some Monroe struts, oem springs, big box alignment, and call it good. D "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 Well I was thinking 600 on the struts alone. I dont want to spend more than 600 on those alone but sway bars and such can be figured into the build later. If I absolutely have to spend more then I can but I'd like the cost for newer struts to stay close to that if possible. Knowing myself I'll likely get sway bars, bushings, and strut bars eventually as well as a new top mount and maybe turbo blanket before I'll start to be more satisfied with the car My original though process was to replace the current ones with newer bilsteins to rid the sag and also stiffen up the ride some more. Previously in suspension I've always reused springs as they dont wear out as quickly and I've always been satisfied. My thing though is I'm not even sure what kind of bilsteins are on the 08 spec b. I read a ton of different revisions but the 08 and 09 were kinda skipped over. My goal is around 600 for struts and spring combo as I also wanna lower the car maybe half an inch or a quarter inch. Just trying to figure out the best path to go, what kind of struts, whether or not just buying certain struts will lower the car some or if I even should get new springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevets27 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 I personally wouldn't bother with lowering especially if you don't want to lower it much anyway. These cars do look to have a saggy butt from factory. If you read up in the FSM it actually lists the wheel well height and the rear is lower from factory. Additionally the spec b due to 18in wheels and using the same profile tires as the regular GT causes the car to sit a 1/2 in (or 1 inch, I can't remember off hand but it's in the FSM) higher then the GT. So you could get a 1/2 in drop just by wheels and tires. Though lowering for visual purposes you would generally want the tires to sit up higher in the wheel well and this won't do that. I would just get shocks, the springs are probably fine but it won't hurt to change them if you really wanted to. Again no help with bilstein revisions I didn't bother to get into that as I would have needed top hats and the koni's being adjustable made sense to me. (I snagged a barely used set already install in old kyb shocks) See if you can find something used with low mileage. With money saved there and from not buying springs. Replace bushings get a good alignment. Make sure you have good tires. Get a rear sway bar and reinforcements for the bushing mounts. Check and replace worn sway bar endlinks (Moog is good). Check and replace ball joints. Check front sway bar bushings. If everything is in good shape in the end I'm sure you'll be happy with your suspension refresh. If you do need more go from there. (stiffer springs, stronger front sway bar etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted April 6, 2019 Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 Realistically should I get new top hats? Those are a wear item correct? If so maybe i wont have to worry about fitment of the specific struts i buy as long as the top hats are good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevets27 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Kind of. If they look fine then they are probably fine. Other then the bearing in the top. That might not be in good shape. Mine just need to be cleaned and lubed but a replacement would have also worked. If you have bilstein's then you have the correct top hats for bilstein. I think all bilstein use the same top hats. If you want to go with any other brand like kyb/koni you'll need the 2.5i/LGT top hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Found these, if that helps. https://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/bilstein/year/2009/make/subaru/model/legacy 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulwaffle Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 I vote Konis too, if your budget is 600 for struts alone. I like them on both my WRX and LGT, and the lifetime warranty is great. Only problem is that there aren't stiff enough springs for the LGT for my liking, but that's an issue regardless of what strut you choose. Agreed on RSB and reinforcement brackets. For good, reasonably priced summer tires I'd look at the Sumitomo HTR ZIII. I have them on the WRX, stiffer sidewall but a little less grippy in the dry than the Hankook V12s on the LGT. Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 I just bought the Riken Raptors at Tire Rack. Don't even have them on the car as of yet, but they look pretty nice, have excellent reviews, and are at a very reasonable price. You can get into a set of 245/40-17 for >$300.00. I also have a new set of the Hankook Ventus V12 on a set of SubZero Rotas and another set of Firestone 500's on a set of Rota Grids with >1000 miles on them. Haven't driven either of those far enough to give a true rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 Absolutely loving the feedback guys, crazy you can get tires so cheap. What's your guys thoughts on proxes? It's what the car has now but they are a little old and brittle. If I go konis struts then wouldn't that mean I would have to be in the market for springs as well or is that estimate including the springs? Looking at the bilsteins if I can reuse the springs and possibly, hypothetically, reuse the top hats then that would be pretty cheap. Unless of course the konis come with new top hats and springs for all 4 at 600 then thats a steal. I think regardless I'll end up doing the sway bar and for sure tires just because it seems like that's what I'm aiming for in terms of goals on how the car handles. I just want less boat like I suppose lol if I gotta sink more money into her than I suppose I will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulwaffle Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 You can reuse the OE top hats and springs with the Konis too, though you won't see as much of a benefit without a set of better springs. Keep in mind that the struts will have more of an impact on body roll rate than the maximum roll, since the force they exert is proportional to the speed with which the shaft moves and once they're static most dampers exert little to no force. Springs and sways will contribute to both roll rate and maximum roll. However, springs can always come later at the expense of having to do a second wheel alignment. The Konis will allow you to adjust damping rate, which the Bilsteins will not. This should, in theory, allow you to match the damping rate to the specific spring you have to better dial in the response you like. I went from a set of GTWorx Bilsteins to Konis on the WRX once the former wore out and, even though the Bilsteins were valved specifically for the springs I have, the Konis felt great one I got them set. Be aware that Konis will require you to cut up the OE front struts, as the fronts are inserts into the OE housings. Easy job if you can use a caliper (or even a tape measure), and can drill a hole and cut a steel tube with a saw. Oh, and regarding the 'saggy butt' - you can get spacers that sit on top of the rear top hat in various sizes to adjust the rear height a bit. They're easy enough to make yourself too. Generally, longer studs are a good idea if you go that route. I just have bolts instead of the original studs to clear the spacer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 Okay so what your saying is basically get different springs if I want better performance. Stiffer springs, koni struts, and reuse the top hats or get newer ones. If that's the case what kind of springs are a good match for what I want would you think? Went to konis website and all i can find are struts that say they fit gt but exclude spec b. As for the cutting I guess I'm confused trying to make sense of it over this forum so I'd have to find a YouTube video or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulwaffle Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Oh that's right, forgot that the Spec B hats and struts are a little different. I think springs are the same, but you'll have to do some research. Think that means you'd need GT hats and a set of donor GT front struts, but someone else will have to confirm. Spec B strut assemblies do fit on the GT, so there must be a way to do it. Regarding the Koni inserts, you have to drain down the oil from the front struts, gut the strut, cut down the lower tube that the shaft/piston sit in, and then the Koni insert bolts into that modified lower strut housing. See here: https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/koni-shock-strut-epic-engineering-spring-install-145744.html If that's a route you want to go, I have the takeoff struts from my car you can have to use as donors if you pay for shipping. Hats are a little old (140k), but KYB replacements are cheap from Rock Auto. And yeah, I was saying struts are just part of the equation so you'll probably want some springs. Here's a good overview of suspension options in general: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920405 I have no experience with them but the Tein S-Techs look like an attractive option among what's currently being produced. Someone running one of the current offerings will have to chime in. A lot of the other springs out there don't come with published spring rates, so it's hard to tell without having driven on them. My WRX has RCE Yellow springs (also discontinued) on Konis, which to my knowledge are the stiffest springs you can get on a Subaru without going to coilovers. These are 330 lbs/in front and rear constant rate, equivalent to about 6K springs in coilover terms so not excessively stiff. The car has virtually no body roll, and is still reasonably comfortable over bumps though obviously much stiffer than stock. I prefer them over the 170-230 lbs/in front and 170-330 lbs/in rear progressive rate Eibachs on my LGT. I'm 95% sure that 08-14 WRX springs will fit the LGT, given how extremely similar the OE springs are in terms of length and the fact that they fit one another's strut perches and use the same top hats. To that end, I reached out to Myles from RCE a little while ago to see if he'd consider doing a run if there was enough interest in a group buy. I'll also be doing a test fit in May to confirm whether 08-14 WRX springs, in general, are compatible. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevets27 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I did a part number comparison before, the spec b bilsteins do have a slightly different part number but I have no idea if they are indeed different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulwaffle Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Guess I never answered your question The general gist is, struts will only control how fast the body rolls over when entering a turn with minimal impact on how far it rolls, because the force they exert is proportional to how fast they're being loaded. Some gas filled struts will provide a little bit of static force as well, but Konis are not among them. Sway bars and springs will impact how far the body rolls because the force they exert is only dependent on how far they're compressed/twisted. They'll also provide you some rate control, but that's not their primary purpose. The two components work together as a system, and work best when the damping rate of the strut is matched to the spring. Essentially, if there's not enough damping, the wheel will bounce up and down when the assembly is perturbed. Too much damping and there'll be no bounce, but the travel will be reduced and response will be slower than it can be if a similar displacement is imposed. Critical damping will produce the fastest response without any bounce, but is probably difficult to achieve in practice across all usage scenarios. See here for an illustration, and treat the 'Amplitude' axis as the vertical position of the wheel after is disturbed by impacting a bump or being loaded in a quick turn. Doesn't matter the website concerns electrical signals - the concepts are the same. http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/damped-response.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 Wow, lots of info thank you so much for clearing that up lol that's just what I was looking for in terms of explanation. Thank you! I found that the B6 is a modern oe replacement and the B8 is performance plus for the car to be paired with lowering springs. The B8 sounded like the route I wanna go because they are actually fairly cheap but also better than the B6 for what I'm looking for. I can pair them with lowering springs which I mean depending what I get can decrease body roll as well. A whole set for that I'd be looking around 750 it looks like. So next is researching springs, lowering half an inch with an increased spring rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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