Loosing coolant - none on ground

[urdrwho]

I take my car to the dealer next week for 9 issues that need to be attended to.

 

This is that 2015 Outback, 36,000 miles on it and I have been posting (purchased the end of June 2018) . Sorry Yoda, this is another post.

 

The morning after purchasing the car, I was snooping about, taking a closer look in the engine bay. I noticed that the coolant reservoir was 99% empty. Dealer said stop by and we'll put some in. I did but they didn't fill it to the manufacturers recommended level.

 

So for the longest time, when cold the coolant was at the "L" on the tank.

 

During the recent very hot weather, when I parked the car I could get a whiff of coolant. There has never been a leaking indication on the ground and never any overheating.

 

I've been closely watching the level mark on the reservoir. Several days ago I noticed that the coolant is now about 2 inches below the "L" mark. I checked this morning and yep...it is below that "L". I check cold, before ever starting the engine.

 

So what's the deal. Do modern Subaru's drink coolant or is there something I should have the dealer check?

[subiefan15]

I had the same problem with my 2016 Legacy that I purchased brand new, noticed coolant level was low when I changed the oil for the first time at 1,000 miles. Went to the dealer and they "topped it off". Kept an eye on it and it was always below the L marking on the reservoir. After multiple complaints to the dealer, SOA, and another Subaru dealer with no resolution I was quite upset. This wasn't my only major issue either, gave me a sour taste with a company that is supposed to be so reliable and valuable.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I take my car to the dealer next week for 9 issues that need to be attended to.

 

This is that 2015 Outback, 36,000 miles on it and I have been posting (purchased the end of June 2018) . Sorry Yoda, this is another post.

 

The morning after purchasing the car, I was snooping about, taking a closer look in the engine bay. I noticed that the coolant reservoir was 99% empty. Dealer said stop by and we'll put some in. I did but they didn't fill it to the manufacturers recommended level.

 

So for the longest time, when cold the coolant was at the "L" on the tank.

 

During the recent very hot weather, when I parked the car I could get a whiff of coolant. There has never been a leaking indication on the ground and never any overheating.

 

I've been closely watching the level mark on the reservoir. Several days ago I noticed that the coolant is now about 2 inches below the "L" mark. I checked this morning and yep...it is below that "L". I check cold, before ever starting the engine.

 

So what's the deal. Do modern Subaru's drink coolant or is there something I should have the dealer check?

 

Next oil change I am going to have the dealer do a hydrocarbon test on my coolant as I have the same issue over the 53K on the car...had to purge the system 4 times now... 2014 Legacy

[urdrwho]

The more stuff I hear and the deeper I get into it, I am thinking Subaru may not be the company they once were. I had a 1997 Outback that had almost 200,000 on the car and much more on the engine transplant. I had a 95 Subaru Legacy that had over 200,000 on it.

 

I have 9 issues for the dealer to look at on a 3 year old car. Those older subbies that I used as hack-around cars never had 9 issue at once. He!! they may never had 9 issues in total.

 

I just washed and waxed the Outback and our 2011 Honda CRV. There is not any rust located on any body part, screw or bolt. On the Outback when I had the ladder to do the roof, I saw the rust on hex connector for the roof rack. How soon will I start seeing red rust drips coming down onto my white paint job.

 

Sigh --- just add it to the list. There are some people without a problem in the world and I wonder if it is a matter of quality control?

 

I'm thinking of a pressure test on the system. I have a nose like a bloodhound and can smell coolant just waking by a car. I swear there are times I smell coolant.

[Jdog81]

All cars use coolant and will evaporate some out of overflow. You can also get slight coolant smell if cap is bleeding off some pressure. More noticeable if tech is not tipping off your coolant bottle on oil changes. Fluid should always be at low mark when cold to allow room for expansion when hot.

[waldguy]

Dunno why people keep filling only to the Low mark.

 

 

Short answer: Read your Owners Manual. There are also several previous threads on this topic here on the Forum. Search is your friend.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2201&pictureid=11232

[Brisvegas]

Dunno why people keep filling only to the Low mark.

 

 

I agree ...... the manual is pretty specific about coolant levels

[urdrwho]

Is Subaru the last car to have non-pressure cap reservoirs?

 

My other subbies never lost coolant like this one.

 

All cars use coolant and will evaporate some out of overflow. You can also get slight coolant smell if cap is bleeding off some pressure. More noticeable if tech is not tipping off your coolant bottle on oil changes. Fluid should always be at low mark when cold to allow room for expansion when hot.

[urdrwho]

The dealer didn't fill to the level mentioned in the manual. The reason they gave me was that in hot weather it could bubble over. I disagreed but then I disagree with other things the dealer says. Latest was - "oh we get 2018 vehicles in that need new batteries." So I'm there thinking - why are you telling me this? So your product is so poor that the batteries are bad in a new car. What are you saying????

 

So I told the dealer that if the reservoir can't be filled to OEM instructions because of over flow, to me that would mean a combustion pressure getting into the coolant or other problems. But then I am one of those that instead of pushing fluid that may be dirty back into the ABS, I open the bleeder valve when I change pads. Dealer looked at me like I have two heads.

 

Dunno why people keep filling only to the Low mark.

[capttris]

The plastic reservoir bottle that you add coolant to, is called an expansion tank.

Even when you fill the coolant to the FULL mark, there is still room for expansion, regardless of ambient temperature outside.

 

A few years ago I bought a gallon of Subaru coolant, just to have. Maybe once a year, I have to add a "splash", which maybe equates to a few oz. Like the LOW to the FULL mark. It's not much.

 

Before my short block replacement, and even when my 2013 was brand new, I had that hot coolant smell after a long road trip. Never lost any coolant.

After the short block replacement 2 years and 30,000 miles ago, I haven't smelled coolant anymore. But as I said above, I still monitor ALL fluids in my car, and tend to add a splash of coolant once a year or so.

It doesn't keep me up at night.

But checking and adding oil every 1200 miles (before the short block replacement) actually didn't keep me up at night worrying, either.

[urdrwho]

That's just it, after your short block replacement the smell was gone. I don't think any of us should be smelling coolant. On a 3 year old car, like mine, with 39,000 miles on it, I don't think there should be a coolant smell. I want to know why, before I am sitting 6 States away from my home, broken down in the middle of nowhere.

 

Your short block replacement shows that it can be done (no coolant smell).

 

The plastic reservoir bottle that you add coolant to, is called an expansion tank.

Even when you fill the coolant to the FULL mark, there is still room for expansion, regardless of ambient temperature outside.

 

A few years ago I bought a gallon of Subaru coolant, just to have. Maybe once a year, I have to add a "splash", which maybe equates to a few oz. Like the LOW to the FULL mark. It's not much.

 

Before my short block replacement, and even when my 2013 was brand new, I had that hot coolant smell after a long road trip. Never lost any coolant.

After the short block replacement 2 years and 30,000 miles ago, I haven't smelled coolant anymore. But as I said above, I still monitor ALL fluids in my car, and tend to add a splash of coolant once a year or so.

It doesn't keep me up at night.

But checking and adding oil every 1200 miles (before the short block replacement) actually didn't keep me up at night worrying, either.

[tumbleweed 49]

Check the water pump. I had a non-Subaru that used coolant at a prodigious rate, a quart every 500 miles or so. Never found any coolant on the ground or on the engine. I imagined it was a head gasket or maybe even a cracked block or head. Turned out to be a water pump that only leaked when it was turning at a couple of thousand RPM so.

[BobbyR]

You should not smell coolant and you should not be losing any under normal operating conditions. If you are smelling coolant and your car is not overheating, you have a leak somewhere. Fill the overflow tank to the full mark when cold. Ambient temperature is not a factor as the car runs at the same temperature regardless of the weather.

[urdrwho]

Yep that pump is on my radar. Since we bought the car I've put 2200 miles on it. THis would be the second time for coolant to be added.

 

Normally I don't deal with dealers, I am a DIY guy. But since this is a CPO car, I am having them to the stuff that is theirs to do. They seemed very Laissez-faire when I first took the car in and showed them a 99% empty reservoir. Not a fan at the moment and seriously if the dealer made me an offer to give me back that $24,500 check I wrote for this car --- I'd take it. Hm? Plus pay me for the weather tech mats I bought.

 

Just looked at the 2011 Honda that we bought two years ago and put 12,000 mile on it. The coolant level is still pegged at the full level on a cold engine (none has ever been added).

 

I saw this yesterday (picture), bad rust on a torx connector of the roof rack. If this is rusted this bad in 3 years, what will it be like in five? Cheap material, how long until the torx is trashed from rust?

 

On the Honda, there is no list and we have never done a thing to the car. At purchase the Honda had 98,000 miles on it and the Subbie had 36,900 on it. Right now, at this moment the Subbie to-do list is about 9 items.

 

Should I be upset, should I be worried about the longevity of this particular car?

 

Check the water pump. I had a non-Subaru that used coolant at a prodigious rate, a quart every 500 miles or so. Never found any coolant on the ground or on the engine. I imagined it was a head gasket or maybe even a cracked block or head. Turned out to be a water pump that only leaked when it was turning at a couple of thousand RPM so.

[capttris]

The steel torx bolt may be rusting from the coating being scratched during installation. I would clean off the rust and hit it with a dab of touch up paint.

Accessories, for most car companies, offer a limited warranty.

We have an OEM trailer hitch on my wife's CRV. Its 9 years old and the car has no rust. I wash it often and it lives in the garage next to my Legacy. But the trailer hitch has rust all over it.... And the Aluminum roof rack is pitted and the paint is flaking.

I had an extended warranty and these weren't covered, since they are accessories.

So it's not unique to Subaru.

Again, I would clean up the rust and touch up paint to protect it.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Dunno why people keep filling only to the Low mark.

 

yeah that works but in my case it still keeps going down lol

[urdrwho]

I have some rust stop to apply and then a touch of paint. I owned two subbies from the 90's era and have you ever wondered why those cars always had a rust spot at the arch in the wheel well? It is a very rare thing to see those vintage models without rust in the same spots.

 

There is good stainless steel and then there is inferior stainless steel that will rust. There is good metal that will handle weather exposure and then there is the inferior stuff. I guess I started to think inferior when I saw all that rust.

 

I wonder how many people will never see the part that I was looking at while standing on a step ladder waxing the car? I'm guessing not many will see the area and the rust will keep growing for them.

 

Rust will find our cars, there is no rust proof car but they can be rust resistant. I was just surprised to see that rust on a 3 year old car. Do I own a boat where the sacrificial zinc is gone?

 

Because this is a modern car I assume that it would be designed with rust reduction design and through material of choice. I guess I'll need to start identifying metals that can rust and attending to them.

 

From another forum where rust was discussed:

 

"How much rust is bad rust?

 

that's too far gone. any rust you pratically inhibit - like big wide-open surface areas of thick metal...won't be the ones that cause you problems down the road anyway.

 

it's the fasteners, bushings, and folds/creases/multiple layers of metal coming together where issues arise and can't be treated. there's no way to properly treat the actual important, failure areas or where it will return shortly, or areas where maintenance will be affected without getting in between every mating surface of bolts, washers, bushings which is impractical and impossible when you start talking about the chassis, folds, sheet metal, rear quarters, etc. "

 

 

The steel torx bolt may be rusting from the coating being scratched during installation. I would clean off the rust and hit it with a dab of touch up paint.

Accessories, for most car companies, offer a limited warranty.

We have an OEM trailer hitch on my wife's CRV. Its 9 years old and the car has no rust. I wash it often and it lives in the garage next to my Legacy. But the trailer hitch has rust all over it.... And the Aluminum roof rack is pitted and the paint is flaking.

I had an extended warranty and these weren't covered, since they are accessories.

So it's not unique to Subaru.

Again, I would clean up the rust and touch up paint to protect it.

[SubieN8]

My 2015 2.5 had coolant loss and smelled all the time, from day 1. They never figured it out.

[urdrwho]

That is just not right for a new car. Did they ever pressure test it? If the dealer doesn't do it while in the shop, taking it someplace for a pressure test is my next step.

 

My 2015 2.5 had coolant loss and smelled all the time, from day 1. They never figured it out.

[SubieN8]

That is just not right for a new car. Did they ever pressure test it? If the dealer doesn't do it while in the shop, taking it someplace for a pressure test is my next step.

 

Yes, it was pressure tested. A friend of ours, has a Nissan CrossCabriolet (Murano Convertible) that she bought new, and it smells like coolant too.

[crudzinskas]

All cars use coolant and will evaporate some out of overflow. You can also get slight coolant smell if cap is bleeding off some pressure. More noticeable if tech is not tipping off your coolant bottle on oil changes.

 

Minimal loss of coolant shouldn't be considered a problem. No matter how well sealed a system is sealed you will always get small losses through various parts of the system. To expect your car to be an ideal system in the real world isn't a realistic expectation. My car loses around 5oz per 15,000 miles, which I would consider very small. If you're going from the full line to low every oil change interval, then you may have a problem.

 

You can get a bottle of OEM coolant concentrate that makes 1 gallon for around $20 on ebay, or if you're lazy, $35 for a premixed gallon bottle. This should last you more than the life of your car unless you develop an actual coolant loss problem. Consider topping off the coolant when needed as part of the standard maintenance cycle.

 

As a side note, they definitely only filled my car to the low mark originally. It took around 16oz of coolant to get to the full line from the low line and I am around 1/3 below the full line after about a year and a half.

[urdrwho]

When I am lazy and don't want to do the work, one of two mechanics I use and trust had this to say --- get rid of the car. He has turned wrenches for over 35 years and is very good. "He discussed coolant issues and engine oil issues that he has seen in Subaru's. The amount of coolant the car has used since July 1st should not happen. "

 

The problem I have with the new radio not holding the Sirius account. Tech said that they will start first with a new antenna. If that isn't it they will continue diagnosis and it may need another new radio.

 

I won't even get into the BS of other issues. Example: the ambient temp gauge. The one that read 76 degrees for almost all day even in 92 degree weather. Tech note says, "it may take a while for the system to determine the average temp, working correctly" Odd because our Volvo had it spot on almost right away and the Honda CR-V takes minimal time.

 

Coolant loss. Tech attributes it to evaporation. But in two months the level at cold engine the level is 2 inches below the low mark? That means on my 2500 mile trip, I should take along coolant for the just in case? Am I driving a 20 year old car? I've driven the car under 2000 miles and using your 15,000 measurement, I can extrapolate that this car would use more than 5 ounces.

 

I am still driving their loaner and called the sales guy. I told the sales guy, I want to see other cars, I just don't have a good feeling about this one.

 

The voice of the guy that bought my Volvo is ringing in my head. He once had a 17 OB, same color as mine. He dumped it because he got tired of all the trips to the dealers service bays. I almost didn't sell my Volvo to him.

 

Minimal loss of coolant shouldn't be considered a problem. No matter how well sealed a system is sealed you will always get small losses through various parts of the system. To expect your car to be an ideal system in the real world isn't a realistic expectation. My car loses around 5oz per 15,000 miles, which I would consider very small. If you're going from the full line to low every oil change interval, then you may have a problem.

 

You can get a bottle of OEM coolant concentrate that makes 1 gallon for around $20 on ebay, or if you're lazy, $35 for a premixed gallon bottle. This should last you more than the life of your car unless you develop an actual coolant loss problem. Consider topping off the coolant when needed as part of the standard maintenance cycle.

 

As a side note, they definitely only filled my car to the low mark originally. It took around 16oz of coolant to get to the full line from the low line and I am around 1/3 below the full line after about a year and a half.