Engine replacement upgrade suggestions?

[Wasted Potential]

Max: Yeah. Everyone keeps suggesting an EJ257. So far I can get no one to tell me WHY. What is the difference between an EJ255 short block and an EJ257 short block? If there is no difference then I have no convincing reason to argue the point with my mechanic.

 

Read post 14 and follow the links. Tells you exactly what the difference is.

If someones building your motor and doesnt know the difference, do not let them "learn" on your dime. They should be able to do their own quick research to see these shortblocks are interchangeable.

 

In short, pistons are more dished on the EJ257, offering marginally lower compression.

Think it was 8.2:1 instead of 8.4:1.

 

Crankshaft seems to change depending on who its sourced from/when. Some have the nitride treated version. Please read here (click the word here, its a link) for a better understanding of this nitride treated crank shenanigans, part number debacle.

[Max Capacity]

Remember unless something has changed, I was told, when you order a ej257, you get the current version they are producing.

 

I believe you can see my 2012 ej257 pistons and the May 2004 (car build date) ej255 in my click here link.

 

Don't get hung up on an differences, there really isn't any worth worrying about. The ej257 is normally cheaper. Another reason to buy one.

[NickCawks]

I would guess 30k to get started https://www.perrin.com/blog/post/perrin-h6-build-up

 

Think he means 30k yin.

 

there was a really extensive write up on someone doing the swap into a forester over on subaruforester.org. I'm trying to locate it but having no luck. Seems that I remember the guy said it cost him about 3grand and a week to build the wiring harness which took a couple miles of wire. If I recall he hacked the wiring harness out of Impreza and then begin to modify it to fit his forester.

 

Seems like this would be a lot easier since the outback comes with the h6!

[Lune]

Talked to Nick at Turbo Concepts for a long time when I dropped my old turbo off to him. I was surprised that I wasn't missing any blades from what BCP said was "the worst detonation they have ever seen". I'm strongly doubting that. There was a lot of horizontal shaft play and the blades were bent showing that the turbo had back spin. Nick's assessment was that it was likely caused by over tuning the turbo making it spin faster than it was designed to which lead to oil starvation. The blades spun against the inside housing but not bad enough to straight up break a blade. The turbo was definitely unusable as is the housing.

 

I told him my goals and my plan and he sold me this turbo. It comes with all the lines, filters and the billet blades. He gave me a great deal on it as he was sympathetic to my story. In fact, he asked me to come look at an EJ25 block he had in the back. A kid he was working with just went through the same exact thing I did after going to BCP. He had the same year make and model of car except his is a wagon. The block looked decent but I decided against it. I talked to the kid on the phone and felt sympathetic as we are going through the same thing. I asked him if he fixed his car yet and he said that he hasn't but is planning on having a new engine built for it. I asked why he wouldn't just use this block that he is trying to sell to me and he started stammering and stuttering and didn't really give a reason. Yeah, I don't want involved in that. It did look nice, though. It had forged pistons and rods.

 

I talked to my mechanic and he wasn't interested either as the engine is all apart and he doesn't build engines. Nick also referred me to a guy he uses that does open source tunes but my mechanic suggested against it. Everyone keeps pushing me towards Cobb. I am definitely going to need a new tune before driving it so maybe it will be best to go Cobb and get an etune.

 

My current dilemma is that I had thought you could just get forged pistons and drop them into a block but my mechanic tells me such is not the case. If I want forged pistons I will need to buy a block assembled with forged pistons. He said the only company he would trust to do that would be IAG. So I guess I need to start looking at their short blocks. I was also hoping to get an oil pump from an STI on that but I guess that doesn't come with the shortblock so I'd have to get that separate.

[Max Capacity]

You can buy the Cobb AP from www.tuningalliance.com and I think Mike will put in a good tune for you. I can't speak for him but I think he offered that a while back. Again, tuningalliance@gmail.com

 

Any decent machine shop can put forged pistons in a block. It is the clearance of the piston skirt to wall that is the key to making them last. www.eastwoodsautomachine.com is my buddies shop. I stopped by there yesterday just to say Hi. Mark Eastwood knows the secret to making forged pistons last in these engines.

 

 

I told you what I did for a oil pump, contact www.AZPinstalls.com and tell Mike your story and ask him which oil pump you should use.

 

You need to verify your engine is clean and has no metal in the oil system, any doubts, replace the items as required.

 

I'll check on you turbo link next. Quickly looking at it, that looks like a nice piece. Send that to Mike Kinsman so he has an idea for what to give you for a MAP in the Cobb AP you buy from him.

 

I know it may sound like I keep telling you the same thing, but that's because I know what I have and how well it works, thanks to Mike Kinsman and Mike at AZPinstalls.com and Mark Eastwood.

 

It is that simple. Again I don't think you need forged with that turbo, Both the Mikes I think would agree, even "m sprank" another Mike may agree.

 

 

Little more info on forged pistons, any good machine shop would not just install pistons with out first measuring the cylinder bore, then measure each piston and match the cylinder bore to each piston.

[Lune]

Talked with my local Subaru dealership service manager that I have known for years about whether he thinks forged pistons are worth it for me. He told me that he can't even remember the last time that a car came in that had ringland failure caused by an issue that wasn't easily preventable like running the car with no oil. He agrees that he thinks it is overkill unless I'm trying to push for more horsepower than he thinks I'm interested in. I'm quickly becoming convinced I don't need forged pistons for the amount it would cost. Still thinking about it though.

 

On to other questions. The mechanic told me that the intercooler was full of aluminum? I'm not even sure what would cause that. I still need to meet with him to discuss everything that needs to be replaced. Can an intercooler be flushed out? If so is that even something I would want to pursue or would it be better to just replace it? I have been looking into getting a GrimmSpeed TMIC but the difference in price is pretty staggering ($600+ difference!).

[Lune]

Max: I don't see where you can buy a Cobb AP on http://www.tuningalliance.com. I am reaching out to Mike again, though. Last time I called him a couple of times and left him a couple of messages on his voicemail and he never called me back. I'll try the email route as you suggest again. I told him (again) that you sent me.

[Lune]

Mike got back with me. Yay!

[Max Capacity]

easiest why to get Mike is

 

tuningalliance@gmail.com email him. He's said if he doesn't get back to you, email him again. He gets a lot of emails.

 

 

Your tmic may have metal from the blades hitting the Al housing on the turbo. Remember that's how the air flows.

 

IMO the GS unit is a great piece, I have two of them.

 

[Lune]

Nice pic.

 

Yeah, I was planning on eventually getting the GrimmSpeed TMIC. I just don't know if it is in the budget currently. That $600 difference is steep when just trying to get it running again. I think I am going to have to relegate it to the "maybe later after my wallet recovers" zone.

 

Regarding my intercooler, I know that is how the air flows but I didn't think the stock VF52 had an aluminum blade or housing? Maybe it does. I thought it was stainless steel. Either way, does anyone know if it can be like flushed out or am I looking at having to replace it. Hopefully I'll be speaking with my mechanic tonight and I'll have most of these answers then.

 

Got a great deal from Mike at Tuning Alliance, BTW. $825 for the killer b oil pickup, injectors and rails, cobb ap and tune.

[Wasted Potential]

Hard to justify your wants when you "just want it running again" but decide to get fueling mods. You will outflow the pump, and the factory intercooler will not hold its seams long above 19+ psi unless you have barmanbean bulletproof mod.

 

Just saying...

Do not get too deep into the car to find you have to spend more money within a month of it running to improve reliability.

 

That is a good deal for those parts though, plus it is nice that your tuner will know exactly what you have going on.

[Lune]

Turns out that I was incorrect about what the invoice Mike sent me included. It was just for the Cobb AP and tune. Still a good price, actually. BCP was charging over $600 for their tune.

 

Right now I'm looking at fuel injectors. Mike suggested switching to top feed and said to try to find some rails off an STI. He said ID1000s (the injectors I presume?) he can get for $500 and ID adapters for $45 and said the rails should run me around $100. So now I am a bit confused when I see this. From what I can tell that kit has rails, injectors and everything needed to convert the car to top mount. Unless I'm missing something?

[Lune]

Wasted Potential: Per Nick at Turbo Concepts the injectors aren't so much a want as a need. The problem present in the video of my car on the dyno he believes is due to the car running too lean. While that is happening at high RPMs he believes it is likely happening elsewhere throughout the tune. That isn't good. He suggested that injectors should be upgraded at the time of rebuild. They can allow for more fuel at high RPMs but dialed back to not push too much elsewhere on the tune. That would eliminate the potential to outflow the pump or overwork the intercooler.

 

I covered the issue with Mike. He agreed. As for not overworking the intercooler and fuel pump he said, "...it is all in the tune." I can get the GrimmSpeed TMIC later and the fuel pump if I need them when I can afford it. Both are easy installs. Fuel rail conversion is a bit more involved and better to do during rebuild.

[gkinslow]

Turns out that I was incorrect about what the invoice Mike sent me included. It was just for the Cobb AP and tune. Still a good price, actually. BCP was charging over $600 for their tune.

 

Right now I'm looking at fuel injectors. Mike suggested switching to top feed and said to try to find some rails off an STI. He said ID1000s (the injectors I presume?) he can get for $500 and ID adapters for $45 and said the rails should run me around $100. So now I am a bit confused when I see this. From what I can tell that kit has rails, injectors and everything needed to convert the car to top mount. Unless I'm missing something?

 

 

Mike is recommending you the top of the line injector (Injector Dynamics) and your kit includes Deatchworks injectors. Hence the difference in price.

[Lune]

Ah, I see.

 

So from what I am seeing they just sell injectors, not kits to convert to top feed injectors? Not sure how I would go about using them. Mike suggested getting rails off an STI. I covered this with my mechanic and he said that will not work as the fitment is entirely different.

[gkinslow]

The later model LGT's came with top feed. I'm sure that would be a direct swap and I'm certain some model year STI would be a direct swap, but I couldn't tell you which ones.

 

I'm guessing you'd need top feed fuel rails, tgv deletes (or tgv's), and injectors?

 

I know several members here have done the top feed conversion, hopefully one of them will chime in with some knowledge.

[Max Capacity]

Mike knows what he's talking about. He's been doing these cars for a long time. I seem to recall the fuel lines to the rails on a STI may be different, but the intake manifold mates to the heads in the same place. Lots of things are the same on both cars.

 

There are members here that have done that swap.

[Lune]

To be clear I am not doubting Mike's knowledge. The problem is that while Mike may be familiar with something my mechanic is not, my mechanic is who needs to know as he is the one doing the actual work. Also, for my own academic benefit I kinda prefer to know what is going on with my car.

[Max Capacity]

Understand, its good to know how things work when you put your life in the drivers seat everyday.

[Lune]

Mike is suggesting against the Aisin timing belt kit, says he has no experience with them and doesn't sell them. This is odd as I have seen them highly recommended here, elsewhere and from my mechanic.

 

He is suggesting I pick one source of advice and stick with it. Well, that is rough. I tried that with BCP and look where that got me. I can't pick Mike because if him and my mechanic disagree then it doesn't matter what he thinks as the mechanic isn't going to do something he isn't comfortable with and I wouldn't want him to. Guess I should just go with what my mechanic thinks.

[sshole]

Don't buy the Gates kit, though. It's been proven time and again that they switched to an inferior bearing supplier from China or Taiwan.

[Lune]

The Gates kit is what Mike is suggesting....

[gkinslow]

I believe you can still get a good kit from Gates but you have to know the difference and people have dismissed Gates completely in order to mitigate risk.

 

I'll have to dig it up, but I saw somewhere that there are 2 different part Gates part numbers. One gets you OEM quality components and one doesn't, but they both advertise as such.

 

Or you could go this route:

 

https://flatironstuning.com/p-3909-upgraded-subaru-gates-timing-belt-kit-oem-subaru-tensioner-water-pump.aspx

[relative4]

The only Gates I've ever heard of is the TCK328(WP). If you have info on a better kit, that would be awesome.

[Max Capacity]

I'll email Mike and let him know we have been recommending the Aisin kit for a couple years now.

 

I will use that kit on my Spec B later this year.

 

 

FWIW, I used parts from Advance Auto Parts, a Dayco belt and what ever they sell on the wagon when I did the belt back in Sept 2008.