Lune Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Also, since you are recommending replacing the oil pump and oil cooler do you have recommendations for what to replace it with? I imagine there is an aftermarket upgrade that is better than stock for this? Also, rereading your post you are basically suggesting replacing the engine. So you are thinking it isn't a good idea to just try a new turbo even if the engine is running fine? Even if I replace the oil pump, oil cooler, pickup tube, turbo, all lines and filters, drop the oil plan and clean up as much as can be and do several oil flushes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshole Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Get brand new OEM oil cooler, STI oil pump, and Killer B oil pickup. I've heard that each head (we have 2, remember) costs around $500 to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 I'm still at a point where I'm not sure if I need a new engine or even rebuilt heads. I think what I'm going to do is have my mechanic drop the oil pan. He said he drained the oil and it wasn't very bad. He didn't think cutting the filter was even needed. He put oil back in and ran it for a bit and didn't hear any knocking at all. I could have him remove the heads but that is a lot of labor and a big cost to rebuild them. If he drops the oil pan and we do our best to make sure there are no particulates in the engine and am diligent with oil changes, filter replacement, etc. it seems like I may have a good chance at an engine that will last a good long while. I can imagine that if it was going to blow due to anything that got in there that it would likely happen early. If it does it doesn't seem likely that I would blow the new turbo if that does happen if I stay on top of oil changes and check oil and turbo filters. I should be able to see that coming before it happens, right? In the meantime I can start preparing for a new short block and full rebuild, I guess. If everyone thinks it is a bad idea to run the engine with a new turbo then I can still go the rebuild route now. But how do you know which to do? What can be checked to determine this? I think either way I should go with the new oil bits now. They can be reused if I rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Holy crap. Trying to educate myself on the oil bits and watched some vids on replacing the oil pump. So... can that even be done without pulling the engine? That looks like a huge job. It looks like the front cover of the engine has to be removed, timing belt, etc. just to even get at it. I mean, the up side is I guess he would be able to see if there are any particulates in there but at that point I might be further ahead just replacing the block as the labor to get there has already been done. And as far as an upgraded oil pump... do I even need one? The information I was finding on it talked about bigger pumps having issues pumping enough oil at low RPMs with the pump cavitating. I feel like I'm back to only doing the oil bits if I do a full rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Contact Mike at www.azpinstalls.com I had him send me whatever oil pump he would use. He can get you whatever you need. You can tell him I sent you. The head cost is based on what they need done. Mine needed nothing. But that's because my engine had been off the factory tune since 8000 miles. Most need a couple of valves if not more. Sending the turbo back is a good idea, they can tell you what they find, that will help you decide on the next step. See what they say first. You'll see in my thread where my buddy told me even at my rates, I was better off to go with a new short block from Subaru. These engines are more labor cost than a normal engine. The build date on the door jamb was to see if your car may have the oil pick tube that is prone to cracking. I'm still using the one that came in the car. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Alright, let me try asking this in the most blunt way possible. Should I replace my engine or try running it with just replacing the turbo? That is the primary question at this point. What would you all base that decision on? Just the fact that the turbo detonated? The fact that there is some (/any) amount of metal in the engine? The results of some kind of test? edit: BTW, Paranoia that the engine will break is an acceptable answer. That is kinda where I'm coming from currently that has me 50/50 on this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Summary: Heuberger EJ257. Rebuilt heads. VF52 (do not see a reason to go bigger as fueling will limit you before turbo. Also, these are reliable new - sorry for the issue with yours, don't let it soil your opinion!) Leave fuel stock (unless you want to do a bigger pump for corn fuel). Accessport for tune if you run stock fueling. If you upgrade injectors, might be worth trying to trailer it for a day trip to someone. Whatever this guy said is what i agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I would wait until I heard back from the turbo mfg. what they find will point you in the right direction. Does that make sense ? They will be able to tell if it was lack of oil or contamination. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzled Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Buy my short block. Needed the heads. Short block seems good. PM if interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Max: Yeah, I guess I'll see what the turbo guy says. I mean I was going to do that anyway. At least I will be able to find out how much of the turbo is missing to know how much could have feasibly got into the engine. If it is lack of oil then that should be resolved by their kit. Grizzled: I think I'll take a pass on buying parts from some guy on the internet again. Learned my lesson. Wasted Potential: My mechanic is still paranoid about ordering an EJ257 for some reason. If I do rebuild I want to get forged pistons, though. Not sure what that will change about getting a short block. Like, I'm not sure if you can order a short block sans pistons and buy them separate or what. Just wanna do what I can to avoid ringland failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I can understand not buying from a new member, but there are a few of us trusted members the would not sell you anything we wouldn't use our self's. Grizzled, if its as good as you say, there is a forum to sell it. List all the details and may be a link here to that is needed. IMO you don't need pistons. These cars are plenty quick enough with a vf52 on stock fueling. It's all in the Tune. If you need a ej257, tell the trusted mechanic they are the same as a ej255, lots of us have a ej257. There is no real difference now day's, your heads will bolt on using the gasket set for your year car. Mine is due it's timing belt. They run great. My set up has kind of become the poster child for doing this. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robburns201 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Now this is just IMO, But I would wait and see what Turbo kits has to say and if you go with a new turbo you can get a used vf52 and put a new cartridge in it for half the price of buying a new one...If they have been running it already and there is no noticeable sounds/knocks etc. then flush it and get the pick up tube,oil cooler and stock pump and run it...If you keep an eye on everything and change oil 100 times and maybe send your oil out to Black stone to be analyzed then you could save yourself a lot of money...Is the new mechanic one that works on Subaru's? That could be why he don't want to do a engine swap as it is a little more involved... Max, Wouldn't forged pistons stop the ringland failure these engines are known to crack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel_jester Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Finding point of failure will help you come to a better decision. The decision will be to replace the engine. Do it right the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Max: Yeah. Everyone keeps suggesting an EJ257. So far I can get no one to tell me WHY. What is the difference between an EJ255 short block and an EJ257 short block? If there is no difference then I have no convincing reason to argue the point with my mechanic. robburns201: Avoiding ringland failure is the primary reason I wanted to go with forged pistons. As for the turbo I feel like I'm getting a pretty damn good deal. For about $800 I can get a new VF52 with the oil upgrades I mentioned and he is including inspection of my used (detonated) turbo free of cost out of sympathy for my situation. For $150 less I could get one of their re-manufactured turbos but at this point I'm willing to pay that much for peace of mind. The new mechanic is one who works on Subarus a lot. I have heard his name before from other people in the area and I was referred to him by two sources. One of them was BCP, though, so take that for what it is worth. He is fine with doing the engine swap. That is how he makes money. We started with the assumption he would be doing that and I think it is likely we still will. He just doesn't seem to want to put in an EJ257 rather than a 255. squirrel_jester: ... yeah, I think you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Also, circling back around to injectors. If I stay with side feed but just upgrade to better side feed like those I linked earlier would I really need a retune? Excuse my ignorance but the way my logic is working it shouldn't change things enough to require a retune if it is only increasing how much it can output at the top end but isn't pushing more all the time. Or is that the issue?... will it always push more fuel all the time? Basically what I'm thinking is if I upgrade injectors (even side feed upgrades) and require a retune then I'll have to get a Cobb AP and e-tune. That is a big cost for just injector upgrade that I could avoid now. I could always do it later when my wallet isn't hurting so much. So basically I think I'm either sticking with stock injectors and only upgrading them if it will not require an immediate retune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Also... anyone want to buy my old block? It could be a good candidate for a rebuild if you are going to bore it out and/or sleeve it. Probably not worth much else. Realize you are getting a damaged product. No reasonable offer refused. This is all assuming my mechanic doesn't want it... I guess I should ask him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWebb Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 so let me check one thing....you want to drop ~8k into a car with a bluebook of 6k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Yep. In fact, it is worse than that. I've already put a lot of money into it. Check my first post in this thread. I said: "So after getting a used VF52 turbo, catless up pipe off an '08, Invidia Q300 downpipe and catback exhaust installed, a protune by Boost Controlled Performance (all discussed in this thread) I got to drive my car for a week before the turbo failed throwing shrapnel into my engine ruining it. After having recently put a lot of money (also upgraded the brakes to these , tinted the windows, headlights and tail lights, getting new summer and winter tires, upgrading to LED headlights and various other maintenance) and work into my car we can't really afford to just get a new car. The money I would pay for replacing my engine would not buy a new (used) car of better value." You could say I'm invested in this car at this point. Plus I love the car. Doubt my dedication. I dare you! Come at me, bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWebb Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Can't fold em now. I'm invested. If I am going to enjoy that sweet Q300 sound I gotta get her rebuilt. Anyway there is no way I can get a 100k mile warranty on a car of equal quality for the same price I'm paying for the rebuild. Gotta keep telling myself that in a month I'll be happy I did it and have a sweet ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasted Potential Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Used Vf52, exhaust and tune is not too invested. Get out while you can. Time to buy a civic haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Max, Wouldn't forged pistons stop the ringland failure these engines are known to crack? It's all in the Tune. With the use/abuse mine get's, I think I'm more convinced than ever, that's a true statement. I think you all know how much I enjoy driving the wagon. Much thanks to Mike Kinsman of www.tuningalliance.com 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lune Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Wasted Potential: It isn't just a used Vf52, exhaust and tune. Its a used VF52, complete new exhaust (not just catback), upgraded to big brakes, tinted the windows, headlights and tail lights, new summer and winter tires, upgraded LED headlights and various other maintenance. Did I mention I just had to replace my windshield last month? That was another $200. That is $5750 in parts alone. Probably another $2000 in labor. I know (hope?) you are joking but I am truly invested in this car. I wasn't prepared to spend the money it was going to take to rebuild the engine just right now after having everything else done but I am less prepared to just what?... bury the car? No way I'm sending it to a junkyard with all those shiny nice parts on it. And there is no way I could find a new (used) car of the quality of mine for the price of replacing my engine. Max: I hope you forgive me on this one point but I think using forged pistons to avoid ringland failures is definitely a move I want to make when replacing my engine. While I agree a good tune is worth a lot I bet your tuner would recommend forged pistons at this point for me too. I've heard all the stories around here and elsewhere to know that is one pitfall I want to do my best to avoid. Wish I knew more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel_jester Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Forged pistons are a waste of $$$ if you're not going for 375+ awhp. Your tuner will recommend whatever will get him more $ in his pocket. Best option is still Wasted Potential's original suggestion. Best of luck. Hope you don't get in too deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Have to agree with squirrel_jester IMO the vf52 will not get you there. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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