Who is burning my oil??

[covertrussian]

I've never tried it, but turbo oil seals are actually not rubber seals, they are usually metal that depend on pressure ratios to keep them sealed. This is why running a turbo without a restrictor will actually make it smoke, the oil feed line will have a higher pressure then the turbine exhaust side, causing the oil to leak from CHRA to the turbine.

[xt2005bonbon]

Right. I also watched additional videos showing that the seal is like a piston ring. And I also watched another video mentioning that it is crucial to change the oil feed line whenever you replace your turbo. I never realized that before.

[covertrussian]

Correct on needing a new oil feed line for new turbos, factory line has a restrictor right at the head banjo, then has a restrictor at the turbo bolt. Both are undersized for journaled bearing turbos, but about right for ball bearing turbos (YMMV).

 

When I ditched my stock hard line, but still had the VF46, I used -4an SS lines but used the stock bolt and the turbo and had no smoking. When I dropped in the 16G then I used a proper bigger restrictor. In the past I've also drilled out restrictor bolts, but that's custom turbo building for my Nissans.

[xt2005bonbon]

Yeah. So back to my (cold) leakdown test results, what do you guys think? Still possible to have a busted ringland with such good results.

IIRC, the leakdown numbers have not changed since the last time I checked (~35k ago).

 

Also, who knows how to 'read' a spark plug?

[Max Capacity]

Back in the day...about 1973 I recall Champion Spark Plugs had a poster in the auto parts stores that showed different pictures of problems.

 

This may help, http://www.championaerospace.com/assets/AV6-R-Aug2014.pdf It's aerospace but if you look around the site you may find automotive.

[Max Capacity]

Oh look what I found,

 

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/faqs/spark-plug-faqs/how-do-i-read-a-spark-plug

 

That was easy...

[ehsnils]

Yeah. So back to my (cold) leakdown test results, what do you guys think? Still possible to have a busted ringland with such good results.

IIRC, the leakdown numbers have not changed since the last time I checked (~35k ago).

 

Also, who knows how to 'read' a spark plug?

If you have been working on engines you'd learn. Optimal is a tan color.

 

But all plugs shall look the same, that's the first rule. Just realize that the ground electrode position might impact the pattern a little.

[xt2005bonbon]

Looks like my plugs show that I am running rich. And I guess it is a good thing that both spark plugs look about the same in terms of color and stuff. I should probably check the passenger side to be sure...

[ehsnils]

Looks like my plugs show that I am running rich. And I guess it is a good thing that both spark plugs look about the same in terms of color and stuff. I should probably check the passenger side to be sure...

All four at the same time side by side is the best way to compare them.

 

Running a bit rich isn't a big deal, very rich and you'd lose power and toast the cat.

[xt2005bonbon]

Yeah. I'll see if I can check the other two tonight.

 

I think my car runs rich when I push it. Other than that, it should be OK. Although my fuel trims have been in the positive for a while now. But as far as I understand, if the ECU is able to provide adequate fuel corrections, then the mixture should be fine. But at WOT, it is a different story...

[xt2005bonbon]

Just performed (cold) leakdown test on the passenger side: I got 3% on cylinder 1 and 2% on cylinder 3. So summary:

#1: 3%

#2: ~5%

#3: 2%

#4: 5%

 

I took a couple of pictures of the spark plugs but am not able to post them at this time. They looked about the same.

[NickCawks]

That's actually not true, or at least can't be blanket applied to all turbo cars, my turbo Infiniti wont drink oil even during racing. Subaru's engine design is more prone to oil consumption. I know this because my NA outback eats as much as my LGT.

 

well, of course, it's not 100% of the time. I drove a heavily modified WRX for almost a decade that didn't start burning oil until right before the engine went.

 

its still an exceedingly common issue that is often directly related to being turbo vehicles.

 

 

Yeah. I'll see if I can check the other two tonight.

 

I think my car runs rich when I push it. Other than that, it should be OK. Although my fuel trims have been in the positive for a while now. But as far as I understand, if the ECU is able to provide adequate fuel corrections, then the mixture should be fine. But at WOT, it is a different story...

 

a slight amount of blue smoke during WOT is perfectly acceptable. It's also important to remember that due to your car being tuned on a specific day with a specific set of weather conditions. You will run more rich or more lean on certain days.

 

I would be very interested in seeing the pics of your spark plugs. IMO that's going to be the best indicator as to if you're running TOO rich or not.

 

Like was previously mentioned, a bit rich is totally normal and ok. TOO rich will foul your plugs, but it is commonly overlooked that it can also wash down the oil on your cylinder walls and decreases the lifespan of the piston rings.

[Wasted Potential]

well, of course, it's not 100% of the time. I drove a heavily modified WRX for almost a decade that didn't start burning oil until right before the engine went. It's still an exceedingly common issue that is often directly related to being turbo vehicles.

 

I think this comes down to relative idea that a system is more prone to fail if it has more moving parts.

Relate to subject as the turbo is oil lubricated, the oil has more places to make surface contact with as if it wasn't routed.

 

But is that necessarily the turbos fault? What did the little turbo ever do to you!?

I mean I've had a few grenade... but boy was it exciting!

[ehsnils]

Just performed (cold) leakdown test on the passenger side: I got 3% on cylinder 1 and 2% on cylinder 3. So summary:

#1: 3%

#2: ~5%

#3: 2%

#4: 5%

 

I took a couple of pictures of the spark plugs but am not able to post them at this time. They looked about the same.

 

Seems like decent figures for an engine that has been in use for a while.

 

If you are able you should take help of a friend and check the color of the smoke in the exhaust, but also check if the residue in the tail pipe is oily or dry soot.

 

It could be that the open loop tables are "off" or that a sensor is not entirely corrector, either the MAF, MAP or throttle position sensor causing it to run unnecessarily rich. While in closed loop the O2 sensor compensates for the misalignment.

 

So in lower rpms the engine runs closed loop and above a certain rpm/throttle setting it's open loop.

[xt2005bonbon]

Seems like decent figures for an engine that has been in use for a while.

 

If you are able you should take help of a friend and check the color of the smoke in the exhaust, but also check if the residue in the tail pipe is oily or dry soot.

 

It could be that the open loop tables are "off" or that a sensor is not entirely corrector, either the MAF, MAP or throttle position sensor causing it to run unnecessarily rich. While in closed loop the O2 sensor compensates for the misalignment.

 

So in lower rpms the engine runs closed loop and above a certain rpm/throttle setting it's open loop.

 

I just bought a gopro . So I may be able to place it at the rear of the car to record the smoke.

 

I have been regularly checking my tail pipes and they do not feel oily. But there's plenty of dry soot though. So yeah, I have a feeling that my open loop table may be off.

[NickCawks]

 

But is that necessarily the turbos fault? What did the little turbo ever do to you!?

 

 

the turbo never did anything to me, but increase the enjoyment of my life. Oh and cost me a bunch of money!

 

Im not talking against turbos im talking with them .

[covertrussian]

well, of course, it's not 100% of the time. I drove a heavily modified WRX for almost a decade that didn't start burning oil until right before the engine went.

 

its still an exceedingly common issue that is often directly related to being turbo vehicles.

 

Turbos probably earned that bad rep during the 80's an early 90's before water cooled turbos were common. Without water cooling, oil will overheat and sludge up, which could lead to consumption symptoms. But that's why I wanted correct that, since my turbo Nissans don't eat oil like Subaru's tend to.

 

Though nowdays even brand new NA cars are "OK" if they eat less then 1QT every 1,000 miles. That's unacceptable for a brand new car IMO but everyone is doing it.

[xt2005bonbon]

Brief update... Not sure if I mentioned it previously but when I did my leakdown test a couple of weeks ago, I moved the spark plug and coil from #4 to #2. I did notice prior to that move that I was getting low misfire count (0-5) at cold idle inconsistently on #4.

This morning, I went to Andrewtech Automotive today for an alignment (which I ended up not doing). While cold idling, I noticed the count went as high as 11 still on #4... (You don't feel the misses though. )

I talked to the 'boss' and explained my current 'oil burning' situation. Provided him all the background info about valve clearance job, recent leakdown test, good blackstone oil sample analysis results, how much oil I burn, misfire count, etc....

He is thinking ringland as I am now. I mean, what else could it be? I kinna doubt turbo seals really. And I don't think the injector is at fault either. It'd be strange that it'd act up just at cold idle. Valve seals? meh. don't think so.

He feels that I should do a compression test even if I got good leakdown results. So I will probably do that.

[ehsnils]

Starting to look like a suspect situation with the #4 cylinder.

 

A misfire can also be caused by excess oil entering the cylinder. And if a compression test don't reveal anything undue it might be a tricky problem, and the only way to find out would be to pull the engine and investigate both head and cylinder/piston.

 

 

It's always interesting to try to figure out what the cause of a problem is.

[xt2005bonbon]

Yeah. This one is hard to diagnose now at this point without removing the head. Sigh.

 

I actually got quite depressed yesterday and was contemplating getting a Tribeca

 

But after lots of thinking, this 05 has too many memories attached to it. We can't just ditch it. I mean that thing went across the pond twice!!

So, I will see what can be done to fix it. I've touched heads, trans, suspension bits, clutch, etc.... Only thing left is the block So might as well get ready to buy one from Heuberger and a gasket kit and be done with it.

[NickCawks]

 

I actually got quite depressed yesterday and was contemplating getting a Tribeca

 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! haha you cant forsake your leggy!

 

Andrewtech has some pretty knowledgeable people there. I would definitely give their thoughts some close inspection. especially if you were talking to either Andrew or Sam.

[TrashyMG]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! haha you cant forsake your leggy!

 

Andrewtech has some pretty knowledgeable people there. I would definitely give their thoughts some close inspection. especially if you were talking to either Andrew or Sam.

 

Unless he wants to Drop in the Tribeca EZ36 into the Legacy with a 6 speed manual transmission and turbo charging it like the Mighty Car Mods guys did with their SuperGramps build... Then that would be fairly epic.

[ehsnils]

Unless he wants to Drop in the Tribeca EZ36 into the Legacy with a 6 speed manual transmission and turbo charging it like the Mighty Car Mods guys did with their SuperGramps build... Then that would be fairly epic.

 

 

It would be interesting, but still not as epic as the frank_ster build with a Buick V6 in a Legacy or the Toyota V12 installation in a Legacy.

 

 

At this stage I'd look for a replacement engine to put in and then take out the current engine and pick it apart to see what's up. If it's not beyond repair then it could be fixed and sold to someone that has nuked their engine.

[TrashyMG]

It would be interesting, but still not as epic as the frank_ster build with a Buick V6 in a Legacy or the Toyota V12 installation in a Legacy.

 

Well I was directly responding to the Tribeca crack on the prior post... I'm sure those are good builds. But I can't see how the Tribeca would be more "forsaken" then putting other manufacturer engines into the Legacy.

[xt2005bonbon]

Well. I mean the car runs just fine really. As I said, it burns oil (if I push it a lot). But other than the (kinna but not quite ) random misfires in #4 during cold idle, she purrs. And again, you can't feel these 'roughness counts' when they occur. I know about it cause I have the Btssm app running at all time.

 

Today, we just did a 250 mile road trip, did some light offroad stuff and played in the mud; that was fun! I wish I did have VDC though for when one tire gets off the ground.

 

 

Talked to my wife about the option of keeping this car and getting a Tribeca for her. She says she is fine with what we have. We (meaning I) could just fix it and move on, until we can afford the Ascent. We shall see how it goes.