Setnev Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Easy test of the o2 sensors. Warm up the car, plug in your OBDII connector and fire up your Torque Pro app. Hold the engine between 2000 and 3000 rpm for one minute. If the reading between min output and max output is more than 0.1v, the o2 sensor is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 Okay so I ran the torque pro app and got the volts to both O2 sensors. While I'm at higher rpms both read 0.9 volts and then lower rpms it's like .8 it was pretty hard to pay attention to while driving but basically as soon as the rpms go over I'd say 3k they both go up to 0.9 and stay there. Sat here in neutral with the engine at about 2.5 rpms and the volts were kinda everywhere, bank 1 always had a higher voltage reading then bank 2 but sometimes they would both climb up to .7 then the bank 2 would drop to .2 followed by a drop in bank 1 to .4 and then back up. Really kind of all over the place I set up a bunch of other things too just playing on it and my volts while driving are 14.1 sometimes 14.2 and then at idle their about 13.9 and with radio, subs, lights on at idle volts are down to 13.2 and at 2.5 rpms it's actually 13.0 Mass air flow reads 3.5 g/s or 2.8 g/s at idle, kinda bounced back forth, and increases to rpms, wasn't able to record a peak but at 2.5 rpms in neutral it's 10.1 g/s Intake pressure sits at about 4.1 psi and then when given throttle it drops Fuel trim at idle is 0.8 and when held at 2.5 rpms it goes up to 3.1 and then down to -3.1 (Not even sure what this is) Timing advancement sits at 15 and then increases as the throttle does, highest one i saw was 38 Engine load at idle is 2.7 and sometimes 3.1 % These are just a bunch of random figures so I figured I'd share them so maybe you guys can tell me what's good and bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 When I get home, I will get my tester and do some data dumps to get a baseline reading for you on how mine runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 MAF, spark, and load look about right for the engine settings you used. Mine only has O2 at bank1 sensor 1 and bank1 sensor 2. I don't think yours would be different even with the different engine. They should range between .1 and .9 with .1 lean and .9 rich. Mine idles at about .5 and goes to around .7 under heavy load when it should go richer. Also, the numbers should jump around a certain amount because these are narrowband sensors, with sensor one being more jumpy and sensor 2 being more laggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Next thought is can we trust the sensor readings? If the sensors are working correctly then its easy to get a false lean reading. It's very hard to get a false rich reading. Air leaking into various places on the exhaust can give a false lean. If the exhaust is badly plugged up you can get a false rich. I have a pressure takeoff made to fit in the O2 bung for checking plugged exhaust. Pretty much you get an O2 blockoff bolt and drill a hole through it, tap it to screw in a nipple, and then run a line up to a pressure gauge that you can see while driving. If you get more than about 1 psi you're in trouble. Was your intake manifold pressure really in PSI and not inches of mercury (in/hg)? Either way, it doesn't seem like enough. Mine idles at 16 inches going down to zero at WOT. 16 is a bit more than half of atmosphere, so in psi it would convert to about 7. One thing that can give you crazy huge rich and crap manifold vacuum is a jumped cam. We'll get through this after a little bit more work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 Okay so they seem okay in other words you think? Their brand new from oreilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 They shouldn't read .8 and .9 so much. If they are both new, and you handled them gently and didn't get antiseize on them, then they should be working. It seems hard to believe that both would be factory defects. So we'll keep working on this, but so far I want to believe that you are really super rich as they read. You're not throwing a code about too rich? I don't know at what level our cars throw such a code. I would have two items on my 'next checks' list. Make sure you don't have a problem injector dumping fuel or an electical problem making an injector dump fuel, and (easier to check) is your timing ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 I didn't even use antisieze on them tbh so yeah I'd say their good. Timing is good, I have gotten a p0420 code a couple of times but while it was in the high 70's to 80's outside I would reset it and it would just come back but now that it's colder out there, never exceeding 60 and dropping to freezing over night, the code won't come back I had the injectors cleaned way back by a shop that used some acid flush stuff through the engine and when I pulled them out for the engine refresh they looked brand new. But those are the 2 things I haven't replaced, injectors and fuel pump Idk if this makes any difference but the car ran rich, engine blew head gaskets, pulled the engine any went over the whole thing and it's still running rich. Which means it's ran rich with the old factory cat and the brand new high flow one so I doubt the p0420 code is that cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 I think 0420 would happen no matter what with it running that rich. Your cat or muffler could be plugged with it so rich. I plugged mine up in about 1000 miles, and my O2s were only showing a little more rich than normal. It's kinda extreme, but you could drill and mount another O2 bung next to the front one. Then you could run a pressure gauge in there, and you could run a wideband in there if you know of one to borrow. Kinda expensive to get one just for diags. You have to get the answer to whether it is legit that rich, and if so *why*. I think you've already answered the first. The car will be junk until you can get the AFR into spec. I mean it will keep running like crap and wrecking sensors and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 The muffler is a straight through design so I think that's out of the woods but I do suppose the cat could be clogged. As far as the reasons I've assumed it's running rich is that is smells like straight gas out of the tail pipe accompied by a very large amount of black soot build up on the pipes and blamed the gas mileage on that. Other then that I've just been stealing parts off my parts car and putting them on mine when mine breaks. What's sad is the parts car that was wrecked is in way better condition then mine. I've been chasing issues with this car and just now crawled under the engine looking for an exhuast leak and discover my power steering pump (the one that lays across the cross member) is leaking fluid. To be honest I kind of want another subie. I love mine, I owned a 94 impreza before and i like that the legacy interior is much nicer then the impreza but the impreza is a bit lighter and I enjoyed that. At the same time the legacy is much wider and feels sportier and was loads more powerful then that little ej18. My particular car has just been so abused before I got my hands on it and it's hard to justify putting money into a car that doesnt have a straight body and is a rebuilt title due to that. What's your guys thought? Should I get a 3rd gen outback? 1st gen impreza outback? Save a bunch and sell my car for a wrx? Or just keep it with the nostalgic cars and stick with wrx swaps in the leggy wagons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 ...What sort of gear ratio does the leggy gt's have. Rear diff and tranny, assuming they'll be the same from to read as that seems to be what makes sense. But anyways I've heard numbers like 4.11 and 4.44. It's a manual gt if that's any help There is a nice comparison chart on the Rallispec website here: http://www.rallispec.com/downloads/Transmission%20ID%20Chart_Public.pdf To be honest I kind of want another subie. I love mine, I owned a 94 impreza before and i like that the legacy interior is much nicer then the impreza but the impreza is a bit lighter and I enjoyed that. At the same time the legacy is much wider and feels sportier and was loads more powerful then that little ej18. My particular car has just been so abused before I got my hands on it and it's hard to justify putting money into a car that doesnt have a straight body and is a rebuilt title due to that. What's your guys thought? Should I get a 3rd gen outback? 1st gen impreza outback? Save a bunch and sell my car for a wrx? Or just keep it with the nostalgic cars and stick with wrx swaps in the leggy wagons I always thought it would be neat to get a 1999 Legacy GT wagon with a blown engine and fix it up. The body style still looks good today. Lots of parts interchange on those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Okay so I was reading some other forums and I noticed someone's saying if there's sloshing noise in the heater core then expect a head gasket re-do. I have replaced my cars head gaskets but a couple times in the mornings when it's really really cold and i first start the car I'll hear like a trickling water sound in the heater core. Sometimes it does it somerimes it doesn't. It most often doesn't do it, kinda rare I hear it anymore. The coolant level does very very very slowly get lower with time but it's takes quite some time before it's enough for me to worry about filling it. The car never has heating issues and the gauge never really even hits the halfway mark, always sits just below that no matter how hot it us outside. Anyways I hear it when it's cold in the morning but it doesn't make that sound mid summer. Do you guys think that's just water expanding and such or should I worry about something else. Also side note there's no coolant leaks, water pump is fresh along with the whole cooling system so it seems the car just kinda consumes coolant with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton96 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Sloshing/gurgling in the dash is normally just trapped air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Also side note there's no coolant leaks, water pump is fresh along with the whole cooling system so it seems the car just kinda consumes coolant with time. Cars don't just "consume coolant" over time, nor should it evaporate as it's a closed system. Bleed out the system. If it persists, there is a leak in the system or something pushing coolant into the heater core at a higher pressure than the water pump can push. Check the coolant crossover pipe under the intake. See if there is any accumulation of coolant on the top of the block. If there is, you have a leak on the o-rings. If you don't suspect a leak, get some UV dye. Throw it in the coolant when you fill it. Run it for a week or two and then use a black light flashlight to see if you have any leaks. Check the tailpipe. If you have a HG leak, you'll see traces of dye in the tailpipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Ninjabot Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 CIf you don't suspect a leak, get some UV dye. Throw it in the coolant when you fill it. Man I can't believe I didn't think of this to figure out my coolant leak. Thanks for this advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 That's how I found out my block was warped. There was dye in cylinder 1 when I disassembled the motor and the previous head gasket failure was in cylinder 2-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 While looking at the top of the block, check the water bypass pipe, they rust at the T to the TB and develop pinholes there. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 Okay checked the block and there seems to be nothing. The radiator hoses were a tiny bit loose and were wet with coolant so I suspect it was those. They were new hoses about 8 months old so the heat cycles probably caused them to kinda stretch. Just out of curiousity the heater core is roughly where on these cars? How would you tell if it's leaking? My buddy had a heater core leak on his old fox body mustang and the leak puddled up on the passenger side foot well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Right behind the glove box. You'll notice the passenger floor carpet wet or smelling like coolant if it's dried up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osei Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Actually it's on the tranny hump next to firewall. To replace you have to pull the dashboard. Not a fun job to say the least. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Okay cool because my carpets a dry and don't smell like coolant so that's good news lol thank you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxBLOOD88SHOTxx Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Good to see you're still running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Oh yes sir lol I'll be around in this thing for who knows how long. I plan on shortly getting a 3rd gen outback and lifting it on forester struts but that's a little farther down the road Side note you guys know that p0420 code I had? Well since it's been cold outside kind of consistently now it hasn't come back. That has me thinking evap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Oh yes sir lol I'll be around in this thing for who knows how long. I plan on shortly getting a 3rd gen outback and lifting it on forester struts but that's a little farther down the road Side note you guys know that p0420 code I had? Well since it's been cold outside kind of consistently now it hasn't come back. That has me thinking evap You may want to rethink that lift on Forester struts on the 3rd gen. The suspension is nothing like the SF/SG Forester. AFAIK, the front will match up, but the rear spindle is entirely different. The SF/SG suspension is shared with the BP/BD Legacy and GC/GD Impreza platform. P0420 is a bitch of a code. You will spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars and countless man hours and it'll still pop. I had a 05 Hyundai Tucson that had that code. It spent almost a month in the dealer. They replaced every gasket on the top end, replaced all 4 cats, all 4 o2 sensors, fuel injectors, fuel rail, fuel pump, FPR. Everything that pertained to the fuel and exhaust system was replaced and the damn thing would still lean out on moderate throttle input and eventually get the P0420 code. It was a genuine lemon. Never did get it fully resolved. The day I traded it in, I wiped the codes 10 miles from the dealer and handed over the keys like nothing was wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxBLOOD88SHOTxx Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 We need to do some troubleshooting, not throwing parts at it and hoping for the best. What have you done to remedy that code so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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