Dalee1104 Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Chaz has been working with me to diagnose the issue because I didn't even know where to start and we've went over fuel trim, fuel pressures, everything to do with the Intake manifold as well and just reading figures and as far as we can tell everything has been in the normal so I haven't tried to replace anything really because I haven't gotten a for sure thing to replace. The exhaust system and everything to do with it is brand new btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 What would be any causes for smelling fuel inside the car while driving? Unsure if this was even me but just curious. Smelt a strong whiff of gas while I was driving but went away after a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Try and find out where the fuel smell is coming from. Could be fuel tank, filler pipe, evap charcoal cannister, evap hoses, rubber fuel lines under the hood, engine running too rich. Many possible causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Yep. If it can't be reproduced it'll be a bear to find. If you can reproduce it doing a certain thing it shouldn't be too bad, especially if you can do it parked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 OK, I read the entire thread again to see where we stand. If you are still getting the super rich thing I'm confused why the computer isn't correcting it out. With .8 and .9 O2 sensor voltage the ECU should be running -10% fuel trims or more. Do you have the computer matched to the engine? A good test to do if you can come by a suitable gauge is connect it to the fuel system between the fuel filter and the engine. It should keep pressure after you turn off the engine. If it bleeds pressure off quickly you may be leaking fuel at one or more injectors into the intake making it super rich. This would be either a damaged injector or more likely a damaged lower o-ring. You could also pull the spark plugs and see if they are sooty, and if they are equally sooty, or if you have some cleanish looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Umm as far as the ecu I'm not sure lol I've never touched the way since I bought the car. I remember seeing dohcej22e playing around with some different ecu's and seeing which one works best for his ej22. What am I supposed to have for a 97 ej25d? How can i check? I might have to try that fuel pressure test because I've tested the fuel pressure but never thought to see if it bleeds out pressure with the engine off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 To be complete, there is a check valve in the fuel pump that could bleed the pressure back to tank, or the fuel pressure regulator could bleed the pressure through the return to the tank. Both of those would not cause a rich condition. Leaking fuel through the pintle in the injector, at the o-ring below the injector, or in the fuel pressure regulator back through the vacuum signal line to the intake would cause a rich condition. The first two would be a more steady rich, and the vacuum line problem would be more jumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Try and find out where the fuel smell is coming from. Could be fuel tank, filler pipe, evap charcoal cannister, evap hoses, rubber fuel lines under the hood, engine running too rich. Many possible causes. A match will help facilitate finding a fuel vapor leak Yeah, don't do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Also on top if this, how big is our tanks? My car only takes like 10, 11 gallons max when the gauge reads empty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 I play on the torque app often and while I had time playing around on it today I noticed at like 2.5 rpm the O2 sensors seemed to he working, bouncing from 0 to 7 but sometimes flat lining at 8. The fuel trim percent ran a -3.2 which I think is still bad Side note the car has been sitting for some time so coolant is reading 212° but needle still sits below the half mark, that seem about right? What's timing advancement? It reads 15° Also ran that fuel pressure test, test showed 30psi and when I shut the car off it dropped to 25 ish but then stayed there and wasn't bleeding any pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Also on top if this, how big is our tanks? My car only takes like 10, 11 gallons max when the gauge reads empty Same here. The Legacy/Outback up to 2008 have 15.9 gallon tanks. The second gen has two sending units in it. After 20 or so years, the resistors don't stay as accurate as they should. I have ran mine below E before and never once seen my low fuel light. Now, I just fill up when my trip reads about 300-320 miles. After that mileage, it usually takes around 13 gallons to fill up, so by my estimation, E is really 3/16 (halfway between 1/4 and 1/8) To answer you other questions, I'm no emissions expert and won't even pretend to know how to interpret the O2 sensor readings. Your ignition timing is within spec. The FSM says the 2.5 Ignition timing 15°±8° BTDC @ 700 RPM. Mine runs dead nuts at 14° at idle and my RPM holds solid at 670 rpm at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Setnev would you know where those sending units are and if they are able to be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 One sender is with the fuel pump under a cover at the front passenger side of the cargo area. I expect the other is under the other cover mirror image. I've never had that cover off. Some of the vent and rollover valve stuff is over there. I think my manual says 15.9 for my 95. Sender is one thing to blame. I also found out that there are different style sender/pump assemblies for different years. I had swapped mine out and it would only take 10 gallons from E. Swapped back and I'm back to 12/13. Holding the two next to each other mine sits about 2 inches deeper into the tank than the one I got from upick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Setnev would you know where those sending units are and if they are able to be replaced? The two red squares are the fuel level sending units. They are able to be replaced fairly easily and I believe there is an access panel for both sides under the back seat. One is attached to the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 How bad is it to run the car completely out of gas? Since my fuel gauge is off I want to keep like a gallon of gas in my trunk when I get low, run it out, check how many miles I got on that tank and be able to tell how far I can get from now on. But is it a bad idea to run the car out of gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 They say the fuel pump is cooled by the fuel flowing through it. (Note, it's not cooled by the fuel in the tank for two reasons, 1) it would be unsafe to run below 3/5ths if that were true, and 2) my factory install had the pump encased a big foam bundle to cut noise, but which would totally insulate it from giving up heat to the tank as well.) So it might get a little hot, maybe, during the 30 seconds when it starts sucking air and when it finishes. It might also be bad to go lean when the injectors can't deliver a full shot, but probably only if it's a turbo and you are WOT at the time it goes dry. So, I wouldn't do it on every tank, but God isn't going to kill a litter of kittens if you run it dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 Okay yeah I just wanted to do it once to see how many miles I can squeeze out of a tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 ive done that for every subaru i have when i first get them. always good to know where the gauge. low light and mileage is at when youre dead empty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Well, today I pushed my Subaru to 353.5 miles. Fuel gauge showed below empty and it took 14.5 gallons to fill it. At 280 miles it's just barely showing empty and takes 12.3 gallons to fill it. By my calculations, on my very consistent 24.8 mpg, 15.9 gallons will last me 398 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisty Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 my gt got 390 and 393 the two times i ran it dry, added a gallon and then filled up with just about 14.7 gallons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TickerPyro Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Only issue with running a car dry is sucking up any particulate from over years of piping, and any possible sediment in fuel. It is why cars have a fuel filter on them. Once you plug a fuel filter, you can lean out and misfire to where you can blow HG's and warp heads. And if that does not happen first (which you hope it does), you can run into piston ring expansion, forcing an ECF. Connecting rods do not bend... They blow shit up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setnev Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Only issue with running a car dry is sucking up any particulate from over years of piping, and any possible sediment in fuel. It is why cars have a fuel filter on them. Once you plug a fuel filter, you can lean out and misfire to where you can blow HG's and warp heads. And if that does not happen first (which you hope it does), you can run into piston ring expansion, forcing an ECF. Connecting rods do not bend... They blow shit up. I'd be more worried about ethanol corrosion in the fuel system causing it to clog up than possible sediment in the tank. With today's fuel pushing the boundary of ethanol content up to 10% with other additives mixed in to help fuel burn cleaner, ethanol corrosion is a real worry for our older cars that weren't manufactured with ethanol mixtures in mind. Ethanol attracts water and over time allows it to grow bacterial the excretes acetic acid that corrodes metal parts in your fuel system. I had an 05 Hyundai Tucson that suffered terribly from it. The whole fuel system had to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Well the fuel filter is pretty new so i should be good there id imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalee1104 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Heres a good question for ya guys. Ill be doing my brakes shortly, replacing them with the R1 concept e-line black edition. While im down there i kinda want to paint my calipers to make them look better then the rusty brown they are. What color should i do though? I don't want anything to flashy like red because my car isnt like a hot rod or anything, my brother did yellow on his red e30 but i feel that may be too bright too? Ive considered black but im not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TickerPyro Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Heres a good question for ya guys. Ill be doing my brakes shortly, replacing them with the R1 concept e-line black edition. While im down there i kinda want to paint my calipers to make them look better then the rusty brown they are. What color should i do though? I don't want anything to flashy like red because my car isnt like a hot rod or anything, my brother did yellow on his red e30 but i feel that may be too bright too? Ive considered black but im not sure Black is always a nice colour, or a gunmetal to get back to stock. Just make sure to use a hose clamp on the brake hose, unscrew the calliper from the feed, cap the inlet, wire brush off the rust (with the piston boots all the way in), prime then high temp paint. Then gravity bleed for a few hours unless you have a hand pump. Doing a 2 man bleed with a bare calliper sometimes leaves a bubble at the curl up top. You want to be able to gravity bleed and move the calliper around before you actually do a force feed. Helps in the long run. And ALWAYS PB Blaster or Nutz Off your bleed screw on older cars. You break that screw and you are screwed. So it is always best to pop them before you do any work, just to make sure you are not going to get stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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