Poll: Was Subaru stupid or smart in ditching the "non" limited?

[WTWatson]

From my perspective, I simply will not be able to buy another Subaru unless they go back to an option for the good engine without a sunroof. I just don't fit in the car. I barely have enough head-room without the sunroof. Why in world car manufacturers cannot make cars for people who are taller than average is completely beyond me. Every car I get into has a seat that will go up several inches, but it will not go down far enough to accomodate someone who is 6'3". It drives me nuts.

[inthedeck]

I will not be looking at another legacy, simply because they only have leather. I beleive that they should have kept the cloth seating...as it's pretty durable as is. I still have the heated sets/etc. minus the leather and sunroof, which I didn't want anyway.

 

Oh well...we'll see what happens down the road...but as of now, I won't get another one. Who knows what's gonna show up when I am ready for another car.

[pdw]

Had I not been able to get an LGT wagon with cloth seats and a manual trans, I probably would have bought a different brand car. I simply prefer cloth and manual transmissions.

[eL GaTo]

Had I not been able to get an LGT wagon with cloth seats and a manual trans, I probably would have bought a different brand car. I simply prefer cloth and manual transmissions.

 

+1. I hate leather, moon roof and bling. I could use power seat adjustment, though. I guess my next car is not going to be a Subaru.

[Gire]

+1;)

 

 

 

Rudy

 

+2.

I love my non-limited and loved how much money I saved over the Limited, which was over $4K back in February.

[Gire]

From my perspective, I simply will not be able to buy another Subaru unless they go back to an option for the good engine without a sunroof. I just don't fit in the car. I barely have enough head-room without the sunroof. Why in world car manufacturers cannot make cars for people who are taller than average is completely beyond me. Every car I get into has a seat that will go up several inches, but it will not go down far enough to accomodate someone who is 6'3". It drives me nuts.

 

You need an SUV:eek:

 

Sorry, I can't believe I suggested that.

[Drakuun]

All's I can comment on so far as bone headed moves by SoA/FHI is that those options and choices must've been cut because they were negatively effecting the bottom line already. If all those choices and options were pushing legacy's over the 100,000 unit sales marks then FHI/SoA might find more reason to include / continue them.

 

What I can gather given SoA/FHI's moves is the following.

 

1: Outback's sales comprise a very large majority of legacy sales in the US market.

2: Automatic transmissions are requested more often / sell more in the US market.

3: Manual Transmissions are requested more often / sell more in the Canadian Market.

4: Difference between tagging a car "Limited" was due to meaningless options on otherwise identicle cars. (example of people getting to hung up on names and badges than the car..)

5: USDM Auto makers can afford to have a billon and one option lines as they actually have the sales figures to need that much variety.

 

100,000 of any car at one option level from any US Automaker would be considered immediately rare.. Most sell over 300,000... I had a Ford Taurus SHO that sold 150,000 units for my model year alone...

 

Options are great yes, we all know the American creedo is "a million and one options, must be unique, must stand out.. yadda yadda yadda."

 

Seriously guys.. untill we push legacy sales over 100,000 mark, I wouldn't be too set on having a ton of options and special limited / unlimited packages.

 

In a country where there is just about one vehicle for every person, having 100,000 of one car, even if it they were identicle, would still be rare. Thats the way I look at it right now. For you Limited Non-limited owners, and 5mt's when '06 come out without these options your cars just got a +1 to their rarity factor and thus have more worth and desire and, Higher resale value.

 

Dunno.. Just think with such a great car to begin with it's silly that peoplke are getting so hung up over the stuff that really truly doesn't matter, like interior trim level. The 5MT I agree, thats probably the single most boneheaded move I can think of, but again.. I dont think SoA is dense. They got data some where that supported that change.

[eL GaTo]

Maybe I can add a few cents of my theory here.

 

With the Spec B in limited quantity, could this be a test marketing? Judging by how fast they sell the 500 units and the age group of these buyers, they will probably re-group and come back with a new set of model lineup. The other thing is Subaru got caught off-guard with the younger age group of Legacy GT buyers. Just look at the poll in this forum. Most of the owners are between the ages of 21 and 35. Subaru never imagined the response they got with the younger buyers. Maybe this is SoA's response that they really are targeting the older age group. Just my couple of cents.

[Max Capacity]

Watch the age thing there I just turned 51 and l like my 05GT Wagon 5MT. As I said earlier, I will not buy a slush box for my daily driver. My Suburban has an automatic, but that tow's the race car.

 

But I do agree, it's all marketing. Look at all the $30,000.00 plus cars out there that only come with a automatic tranny. Ferrari even makes them for most of there cars now.

[snoman]

You need an SUV:eek:

 

Sorry, I can't believe I suggested that.

Getting off topic... My company car is a Trailblazer, and it is the most uncomfortable vehicle I've ever sat in (I'm 6'2"). There is plenty of headroom, but there is NO legroom, the brake pedal is 12" off of the floor, and the seats are like stiff boards. My legs fall asleep every time I drive it. I will never buy an SUV, especially from GM.

[snoman]

Maybe I can add a few cents of my theory here.

 

With the Spec B in limited quantity, could this be a test marketing? Judging by how fast they sell the 500 units and the age group of these buyers, they will probably re-group and come back with a new set of model lineup.

 

I agree with this. In fact I think that the 2005 model year acted as a "test group" for marketing. They offered tons of color, transmission, and trim choices for 2005. The remaining options and colors in 2006 were based on the sales of the 2005 models.

 

Going limited-only wasn't a terrible move in my opinion, but eliminating color choices was.

 

We can only hope that the Spec.B will be a quick seller. Perhaps we'll see a performance suspension package as an option on future Legacies as a result!

[rallispec]

i dont mind them dropping the limited package. Although, I'm glad i got my non-limited when I did becuase I was not in the market for the limited pakcage,, and would probably have ended up with something else.

 

 

 

WHat i think is really odd is them dropping the Manual transmission from the wagon, and not offering NAV with the wagons - forcing you into an Outback if you want those features.

 

Seems like that could be turning off even more potential buyers.

[eL GaTo]

Watch the age thing there I just turned 51 and l like my 05GT Wagon 5MT. As I said earlier, I will not buy a slush box for my daily driver. My Suburban has an automatic, but that tow's the race car.

 

But I do agree, it's all marketing. Look at all the $30,000.00 plus cars out there that only come with a automatic tranny. Ferrari even makes them for most of there cars now.

 

Don't you worry about the age thing. I am older than you. When I saw the owners age poll, I was really surprised. We even have members that are in their teens. Don't get me wrong, young or old we all are entittled to drive wonderful cars like these. More power to SoA but bring back the GT without the "bling".

[mmanus88]

anyone complaining about the height thing:

 

1. for those of us that travel abroad, europeans and asians are built smaller and shorter for the most part. this car originated in japan, where people are especially small (majority). now u may argue that if they want to bring a car over to the US they should tailor it for the general population, but considering that a huge majority of out population is overweight, and we have people that are obscenely tall, it jsut wouldn't be feasible to make cars that can accomodate everyone. plus, the legacy is marketed as a sports sedan, and is midsize/small for a sedan, so perhaps some people who are not comfortable in the legacy should look elsewhere, maybe into a larger sedan/suv.

 

2. as mentioned before, manual was probably dropped because subaru observed that it might even out/raise sales. i am assuming manual is still optional in all other parts of the world, and this is because in most other countries, when ppl take their driving tests, they are recquired to do it in manual. special license is needed to drive an auto (i almost wish i had learned that way here, i definately think manual is cooler to observe and work). manual is in more deamdn around the world. a lot of us lazy americans like auto

 

3. as for leather, i love leather. it has an air of luxury, and i think subaru is trying to market the legacy towards that sort of target audience. i am happy to see subaru trying to diversify a bit (as nominal as ommiting cloth may seem, its a step towards something).

 

yes, for those of us who wanted the dropped options, subaru's choice sucks, but its a business, and i'm sure subaru made these changes in hopes of diversifying, profiting, and expanding.

[eL GaTo]

I don't know how many of you guys have been buying Subarus. I believe Subaru has been building cars even before Honda started building cars. Subaru built its first car in '54 way ahead of Honda.

 

Subaru has been targeting a certain group of the population. It has not been a big seller but they have always managed to hang on to the loyalty of this group. Subaru has now evolved into a big time player since its successes with the Forester and WRX. Forester will always have its followers and WRX now has found its niche in the performance market. Look at how Subaru is reacting to this WRX group-just look at the line up for 2006 WRX.

 

As for us Legacy buyers, we caught Subaru off guard because of the diversity(I may be wrong on this one because the majority of this forum is between the ages of 21 and 35) of this crowd. I really think that Subaru targeted the older or mature(to be politically correct) group and they are trying to steer it back towards the intended target group. Thus limiting our choices for the 2006 lineup. I think Subaru is wrong on this one. And if it is successful in targeting this group, then the Legacy lineup will always be the sleeper as it has always been. Just my two cents.

[jaycee]

Quite simply I would have bought something else if they didn't offer the "unlimited" model. No sunroof for me...

[mmanus88]

and i would have bought a g35 or tsx if they didn't offer a limited model

 

[doteleven]

It is pretty interesting reading the comments here.

 

I test drove the "un"limited purely to see what the suspension, steering feel, and drivetrain were like.

 

I get into a few dozen rental cars every year for work. No offense, but IMHO, but I ranked the "un"limited interior among the bottom 50% of interiors that I have sampled recently. Why? The seats were not very adjustable, nor supportive. Just my opinion - no flames, please. Because seats are like shoes, and no pair fits the same person the same way.

 

The limited interior is merely good, not great, but again, I am coming from three successive VAG products, starting with a 99 A4, and VAG product interiors trump FHI interiors just like FHI reliability trumps VAG reliability.

 

On the other hand, $25K MSRP for the LGT is a great deal.

 

So this is what I think Subaru should have done (not including Outback). I've put options not offered, but should have been offered, with a *

 

3 model lines:

Legacy GT2.5

Legacy 2.5i

Legacy GT3.0 (H6 boxer)

 

Standard on GT variants and 2.5i

chrome tipped exhaust

electroluminescent lighting

power seats (passenger and driver)

same seat bolstering as the existing "limited" seats

 

option on 2.5i, standard on GT variants

dual zone climate control

17" alloy rims

*real wood trim

 

options on both:

all those random dealer-installed things

5EAT transmission

sunroof

*NAV

*HID

*handling package (18" wheels with summer tires + Spec B suspension)

*iPod interface

*VDC

*Mark Levinson / Bose / HK or some such high end audio system

 

And... same option sets for wagons versus sedans, except:

*3rd row kiddie seat for wagons as an option

 

Whaddya think?

[eL GaTo]

Jaycee, you were not a member of the targeted group but mmanus88 was. So mmanus88, why didn't you buy the G35? TSX is not you.

 

As for you Jaycee, you would be in another car manufacturer's targeted group.

[racerdave]

From my perspective, I simply will not be able to buy another Subaru unless they go back to an option for the good engine without a sunroof. I just don't fit in the car. I barely have enough head-room without the sunroof. Why in world car manufacturers cannot make cars for people who are taller than average is completely beyond me. Every car I get into has a seat that will go up several inches, but it will not go down far enough to accomodate someone who is 6'3". It drives me nuts.

 

+1

 

I'm only 6-1, but have short legs/long torso courtesy of my simian-proportioned father. Thanks Dad!

 

Seriously, I was just about set to go with a 325i, which can be ordered without a roof. Then we made the decision to go with a wagon.

 

Well, you can *only* get the 325iT with a moonroof. Now, it just so happens that the E46 BMW is one of the few cars I can fit in properly with a moonroof, but *barely.* (Volvo V70 is the other... the seat can go down pretty low)

 

But when I found out I could get the *hot* Legacy wagon with a 5MT and NO moonroof, that was a huge plus in the Subaru's favor.

 

One of my all-time pet peeves is not being able to do a moonroof delete on a car.

 

I'm glad I got my LGT when I did, and I like the car a lot, but I hope Subaru changes their tune on this one in the future.

 

Because if I had to made the choice for the 06 models instead of the 05, I might have never bought the LGT with the forced moonroof.

[jaycee]

option on 2.5i, standard on GT variants

dual zone climate control

 

Well, everyone's got their own hot buttons (pun intended) but I would've liked to see the option for a manual climate control on the GT - knowing what I do now I would've even paid extra for it.

[eL GaTo]

If you read Drakuun's comments, all these things that we complain about will be just that.

 

Subaru has survived since the late sixties with just a tiny portion of the auto buying market. If you guys are old enough, it outlived quite a few of European brands here in the US, to name a few.... Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Citroen and even AMC. Subaru will always have that "CORE" group who will always buy their Outbacks and Wagons. And now the Forester. Even with its successful additions of the Forester and WRX models, their sales of the Outbacks and Wagons will always be there and will always keep Subaru's head above the water.

 

The moral of the story is.......Subaru is targeting you, me and everyone else who will keep buying what they have and not what you want. Cheer up "non-limited" owners. Enjoy your ride:icon_excl

[WTWatson]

You need an SUV:eek:

 

Sorry, I can't believe I suggested that.

 

Actually, many SUVs have LESS head room than sedans, not more. Besides, you only need to watch one flip over right in front of you on the interstate once to decide never to drive one.

 

Maybe this should be a different topic, but:

 

As for some of the other comments about cabin height and Americans, this is hardly an American problem. First, I travel quite a bit and meet lots of Europeans who are over 6' (admittedly, not nearly as many Asians). Second, this phenomenon is a relatively recent (last ten years) problem. One of my early cars was a Chevy Cavalier and I fit fine. I also drove a BMW 325e with a sunroof that I fit in without any problem as well as an Audi 4000 with a sunroof. I never had a problem in these 80s era European cars. My 2002 VW Passat W8 has a sunroof and I fit, but it was unusual at its time. My 95 Golf w/o sunroof is fine too. The real stupidity is that the new Passat is SHORTER inside! So are the vast majority of cars I now get into, even the big American ones. I haven't gotten any taller for the last 20 years, but the average population size continues to go up. Why in the world aren't car designers acknowledging this simple fact?

[eL GaTo]

WTWatson.............

 

I think its the new driving style that some drivers do. They pull back on the seat back so far back and all you see are couple of eyeballs. :lol:

 

We know who you are!!!

[miles]

I just noticed in Canada you can still get a "non" limited GT sedan (no wagon).

The 2006 GT sedan has premium cloth "power adjustable" seats.

 

Also, Canada gets the GT Ltd Wagon with manual transmission.

 

http://www.subaru.ca/interface/Subaru02/DataSheet01.asp