upstater Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2749732 If you are bringing in the Legacy for an oil change, they both won't notice or care that you have installed an additional CVT radiator. If you bring in your Legacy for a transmission failure, I am pretty sure they won't miss it. The above thread provides many instances of FA DIT engine failures. You can scope out for yourself how SOA and Subaru dealers allow or reject warranty claims by looking at the outcome of motors with aftermarket tuning vs motors without. Not saying they will reject it out of hand, but the rate of warranty denial for motors with aftermarket additions is certainly high, so at least be prepared if you are modifying your transmission. If an additional transmission line feeding your CVT radiator leaks and destroys the CVT, I would find it hard to believe they would even consider warrantying it. FWIW there was a WRX CVT tuner who absolutely grenaded his CVT transmission, needing full replacement, and it was not covered under warranty. You can search NASIOC for that one, but I remember it well since I had a WRX CVT and was following his progress. Also, the rate of "good will" engine warranties for tuned FA DIT's seems to have decreased over time as more tuned cars have had engines blow up. I think at least initially (2015) Subaru wanted to make sure their redesigned motor (the FA DIT was in the Forester XT previously, but retuned for the redesigned WRX and with a different transmission 6MT and retuned WRX CVT) didn't have any inherent quality issues, but over time they have probably noticed that stock engines have a low rate of failure compared to those that have been tuned, and they are lot less forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel4982 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just came back from the dealer, they put the car up on the lift, got the tranny fluid up to temp, opened the drain plug and more fluid poured out...they're saying it's full already. I don't think there's anything else i can do unless you guys have suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 A modified ECM is quite a bit different than the addition of a transmission cooler, apples & oranges regarding warranty claim denials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel4982 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 A modified ECM is quite a bit different than the addition of a transmission cooler, apples & oranges regarding warranty claim denials. Opie, how do I definitively find out if I have enough fluid in my tranny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 A modified ECM is quite a bit different than the addition of a transmission cooler, apples & oranges regarding warranty claim denials. CVT's seem very reliable in Subaru Legacys. If you were to have a transmission issue while under warranty, the first thing they are going to do is check the fluid levels. This would be the case whether the belt explodes, slips, bearing fails, whatever. Dealers don't repair them, so don't expect a forensic analysis of what exactly went wrong, just that whatever is wrong, it is not repairable. Fluid level is the first thing they will check, there are copious numbers of warranty denials for engines that Subaru claims were low on oil that spun a bearing or threw a rod, both turbo and non-turbo, modified and non-modified (Google is your friend). Subaru will do this because before they offer a warranty repair they need to see if they can identify the source of the failure. If they find the transmission is underfilled, or overfilled, they will claim this is the reason for the failure (easier than blaming faulty metallurgy). They are going to try and determine if that was the fault of Subaru (factory or dealer service) or the owner. Since the CVT fluid in Legacy's is designed for lifetime service, they will know that a Subaru dealer has not added or removed fluid during scheduled maintenance (if they have done so, it will be in their database). If they identify when they look at your transmission that you have added an extra radiator to your Legacy CVT, they will not assume you did it correctly. They probably will also check to see if you have installed a tow hitch (whether or not you have a CVT cooler installed). 8-22 in your Owners Manual will tell you that Subaru warranties do not apply to vehicle damage or malfunction caused by trailer towing. I'm just going to venture a guess that the denial language in section 8-22 of your owners manual will apply to any transmission mod you have chosen. Good luck, at that point you get to argue with SOA and Subaru that you modifying your transmission should not affect your warranty. Modify or add a tow hitch at your own risk, but don't say nobody ever mentioned warranty denial. 8-22 is pretty clear that modifications affecting the transmission will void your warranty on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel4982 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Guys, I need help preventing it getting to a warranty issue lol. How do I verify there is enough transmission fluid in there if every time I open the plug, more fluid comes out. Should I continue trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Opie, how do I definitively find out if I have enough fluid in my tranny? With the car level and at operating temperature, remove the CVT fill plug, add fluid until fluid starts running back out of the fill hole. Then it is full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 CVT's seem very reliable in Subaru Legacys. If you were to have a transmission issue while under warranty, the first thing they are going to do is check the fluid levels. This would be the case whether the belt explodes, slips, bearing fails, whatever. Dealers don't repair them, so don't expect a forensic analysis of what exactly went wrong, just that whatever is wrong, it is not repairable. Fluid level is the first thing they will check, there are copious numbers of warranty denials for engines that Subaru claims were low on oil that spun a bearing or threw a rod, both turbo and non-turbo, modified and non-modified (Google is your friend). Subaru will do this because before they offer a warranty repair they need to see if they can identify the source of the failure. If they find the transmission is underfilled, or overfilled, they will claim this is the reason for the failure (easier than blaming faulty metallurgy). They are going to try and determine if that was the fault of Subaru (factory or dealer service) or the owner. Since the CVT fluid in Legacy's is designed for lifetime service, they will know that a Subaru dealer has not added or removed fluid during scheduled maintenance (if they have done so, it will be in their database). If they identify when they look at your transmission that you have added an extra radiator to your Legacy CVT, they will not assume you did it correctly. They probably will also check to see if you have installed a tow hitch (whether or not you have a CVT cooler installed). 8-22 in your Owners Manual will tell you that Subaru warranties do not apply to vehicle damage or malfunction caused by trailer towing. I'm just going to venture a guess that the denial language in section 8-22 of your owners manual will apply to any transmission mod you have chosen. Good luck, at that point you get to argue with SOA and Subaru that you modifying your transmission should not affect your warranty. Modify or add a tow hitch at your own risk, but don't say nobody ever mentioned warranty denial. 8-22 is pretty clear that modifications affecting the transmission will void your warranty on it. Lot of assumption here in regards to warranty. Dealership technicians do all of the inspection and diagnosis on vehicles, the only time Subaru/SOA get's involved is if there reason to believe the damage is not from a defect. 99.9% of the time Subaru is not involved AT ALL. Dealerships are not looking for a reason to deny any warranty coverage, they just want to make sure that Subaru will pay them for the repairs performed. Technicians are also not looking for reasons to deny warranty, and quite honestly would never even notice an OEM part from another model. I've been a Subaru Service Manager for 12+ years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstater Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I've been a Subaru Service Manager for 12+ years.... Awesome, I am sure you have no worries about warranty denials. For the rest of us losers who don't work at a dealer, and apparently those who frequent NASIOC and every other Subaru owners site, warranty denials are common and well documented, don't believe me, google it. Nothing gets people posting on the internet like warranty denials. If anyone else wants to guarantee your powertrain warranty, and you don't work at a dealer, it is probably best that you don't modify your powertrain. That is actually the only way to guarantee your warranty, as long as you follow factory service requirements and can prove you have done so. In the case of the Legacy CVT transmission, that means not touching it, and not towing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Just came back from the dealer, they put the car up on the lift, got the tranny fluid up to temp, opened the drain plug and more fluid poured out...they're saying it's full already. I don't think there's anything else i can do unless you guys have suggestions. After the correct fluid temperature was reached, did they move the gearshift selection lever from P through all ranges then back to P with the engine idling to make the fluid circulate within the transmission just prior to checking the level in P with the engine idling? For the fluid to be now at the correct level, provided the CVT was originally filled correctly at the factory, if you add a cooler & hoses it has to take more fluid if fluid is flowing through the cooler. I haven’t felt mine but do the cooler & hoses get warm after using the car? For earlier 4 speed & 5 speed Subaru autos the temperature of the fluid had a large bearing on the indicated fluid level, I expect the CVT would be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeysubaru Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Lot of assumption here in regards to warranty. Dealership technicians do all of the inspection and diagnosis on vehicles, the only time Subaru/SOA get's involved is if there reason to believe the damage is not from a defect. 99.9% of the time Subaru is not involved AT ALL. Dealerships are not looking for a reason to deny any warranty coverage, they just want to make sure that Subaru will pay them for the repairs performed. Technicians are also not looking for reasons to deny warranty, and quite honestly would never even notice an OEM part from another model. I've been a Subaru Service Manager for 12+ years.... I am not trying to troll anyone, I just find it a little "off" that the installation of a hitch immediately implies towing. The easiest and best way to carry bicycles is with a rack attached to a towing hitch... if SOA will immediately use the presence of a hitch as an out...... I am not saying they don't or they won't I am just saying if that is the case, I am very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruNoLies Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 OK Just finished the walk through, PDF is available here: 2015-2014 Legacy 3.6R CVT Cooler Install Entire install took about 5 hours, taking my time, taking pictures and taking a few breaks including lunch. Be forewarned, getting the old metal hardline out, and the new metal hardline in place will take patience as it is a very tight fit and needs some finesse to get in place without damaging anything. I'd give it a difficulty rating of 2.5 out of 5. Dag Man! A write up like that is worthy of a promotion Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRu17 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Will this work on the 2.5s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Onegin Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 If this is a factory part I wonder why the factory didn't install it at the when the car was made or list it as a option . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 ... I wonder why the factory didn't install it at the when the car was made or list it as a option . Probably because the Outback is rated for towing and suitable for moderate off-road use, while the Legacy is not. FWIW, the highest CVT fluid temperature I've yet observed in our 2015 Legacy was 215 F (continuous 75 mph cruising at ~104 F ambient temperature) ... well within the "safe" range. Under similar conditions, the CVT fluid temperature in our 2016 Outback (with the OE secondary cooler) typically runs about 20 F cooler. "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Hey Opie, thanks for the write-up. Can I come by your place, and have you install this? I just don't think I have the nutz to do so...haha. Would be nice if it were even offered as an 'option' on the legacy...but, this write up is as good as it gets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeuEmMaiMai Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Lot of assumption here in regards to warranty. Dealership technicians do all of the inspection and diagnosis on vehicles, the only time Subaru/SOA get's involved is if there reason to believe the damage is not from a defect. 99.9% of the time Subaru is not involved AT ALL. Dealerships are not looking for a reason to deny any warranty coverage, they just want to make sure that Subaru will pay them for the repairs performed. Technicians are also not looking for reasons to deny warranty, and quite honestly would never even notice an OEM part from another model. I've been a Subaru Service Manager for 12+ years.... just a quick Q, do you think that this mod would work with the 2.5L cars? on a side note, Subaru Dealership broke my transmission by over tightening the fill plug on the front differential... they submitted it for warranty claim because all the fluid leaked out and smoked the front differential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 ^^Ouch. Sad to hear...though, at least it's covered. As for your question, I'm not sure of the answer. However, either Opie responds with that answer, or, search the parts catalog for the 2.5i Outback...if it's there, then, most likely will work on the 2.5i sedan. Just my thoughts...nothing confirmed, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronemus Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Guys, I need help preventing it getting to a warranty issue lol. How do I verify there is enough transmission fluid in there if every time I open the plug, more fluid comes out. Should I continue trying? Per the FSM there is a specific procedure to follow when checking the CVT fluid level: 1) Start the engine to raise CVTF temperature to 35 — 45°C (95 — 113°F) on Subaru Select Monitor. 2) Operate the select lever in P→R→N→D and D→N→R→P to circulate CVTF with the engine idling. 3) With the engine idling, lift up the vehicle and remove the filler plug. NOTE: CVTF is at the specified level when it is up to the filler plug hole lower section. 4) When there is no CVTF leakage from the transmission, add the specified fluid up to the filler plug hole lower section. CAUTION: Note that when CVTF is added up to the lower section of filler plug while the transmission is in cold condition, overfilling of CVTF occurs, causing the oil to spill out. 5) Install the filler plug. http://legacygt.com/forums/moz-extension://176116eb-f2e3-4542-9853-d50e14b56469/informenter-marker.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 just a quick Q, do you think that this mod would work with the 2.5L cars? on a side note, Subaru Dealership broke my transmission by over tightening the fill plug on the front differential... they submitted it for warranty claim because all the fluid leaked out and smoked the front differential. I haven't really looked at a 2.5l Outback or Legacy to confirm, but I would suspect that all the mounting points are shared between models to keep production costs down and that it would likely fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too40gawlf Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Opie thanks for the tremendous knowledge provided in this thread. As someone else rightly mentioned, the Outback is expected to tow and is equipped with the CVT cooler for extra protection. However, I dont see any harm is dropping a couple dozen degrees on the operating temp on a Legacy CVT, so I will consider this mod when I change the CVT fluid in my wife's car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too40gawlf Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Oh and I've been holding off doing the CVT fluid change because last time I checked, Subaru CVT fluid was $16 a quart and our cars take something like 12 or 15 qts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share Posted November 14, 2017 Oh and I've been holding off doing the CVT fluid change because last time I checked, Subaru CVT fluid was $16 a quart and our cars take something like 12 or 15 qts. The CVT is considered a "lifetime" fluid, so unless you are towing, or have gotten water intrusion, or the fluid is cooked...changes are not really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too40gawlf Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 The CVT is considered a "lifetime" fluid, so unless you are towing, or have gotten water intrusion, or the fluid is cooked...changes are not really needed. Lifetime my ass. The FSM or owner's manual says 20K miles if used in 'extreme' conditions. Yes, the definition of extreme is open to interpretation, but anyone who wants to hang on this car for more than a few years would be well served to change their CVT fluid at some point. I say every 50k miles should be a safe bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pleiades 3.6R Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Any changes for 2018? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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