Honest thoughts on my suspension and BBK plan, with parts list.

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

Shralp, I completely agree with your thoughts on the Stoptech BBKs being overkill. I weighed keeping the stock brakes, going to STI Brembos, and a couple other options with the Stoptechs included. Might as well go big once and not modify again.

 

This car is kind of a "pull out all the stops" for me. I looked for an 08 or 09 for a very long time, years in fact. I knew I was going to be pouring tons of money into it once I found it. I also plan on completely upgrading the motor. The shop I've talked to (PIA) said we can get 300-350 HP/TQ and keep reliability. I only have 57k miles on the car now, so when I hit 90k... I'm going to be dumping vast amounts of money into the motor.

 

I won't deny, I love this look. (I know it's on a 370)

[TheMonaLisa]

Are you talking about the one in your picture?

 

(Arrow for reference)

 

 

 

Yes

 

 

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[shralp]

Hey DJ, if this is project car for you and you're at peace with the capital investments then by all means go for it. Your whole plan will change the car drastically for the better in terms of performance.

 

I might add that if this is your plan, you should reconsider the "not tracking your car" part. We need more Legacy's on track here in the PNW, tons of fun Hate to see a car with the capabilities to handle not be allowed do what its built for.

 

The StopTech's are sweet bits for sure, wish they weren't so pricey.

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

I might add that if this is your plan, you should reconsider the "not tracking your car" part. We need more Legacy's on track here in the PNW, tons of fun Hate to see a car with the capabilities to handle not be allowed do what its built for.

 

I honestly don't feel my driving skills are on par to compete Though, I'll keep it in mind. Where do you go to track?

[magnusonsubie]

Paging Boxkita. He'll get you on track.

[shralp]

Fav track here is ORP at Grass Valley just east of the Dalles... PIR here in Portland is convenient but not as compelling as ORP. You've got the Ridge outside Olympia which is super fun and of course Pacific north of Auburn.

 

ORP is here:

This was a track toss with Gator in his Silver Eagle before Boxkita bought it...

[hadvw]

Paging Boxkita. He'll get you on track.

 

Keep me in the loop as well. I'm getting interested in going around here (Bay Area), but just starting with HPDEs.. (hopefully I haven't annoyed anyone with my frequent references to that).

[boxkita]

@OP - where is "Pacific NW" ? If you are going to PIA, I'm guessing Seattle area? We should talk. :-)

 

If you are actively not going to the track, I'll say the same thing I've said to everyone else with a similar build list. You're wasting your money.

 

Especially the brakes. The OEM calipers are really good. Add some brake ducting and they are great. On the road, I run Hawk HPS, which work great if you understand how to use brakes. Not so great, if you don't. Upgrade to stainless lines. 600 degrees rated fluid. Everything else is bling.

 

The W/L parts. Especially the motorsports parts. Your car will rattle your teeth on anything other than the newly paved sections. Unless you have driven your car at the limits (autox/track), you have no idea what's its capable of. If you don't believe me, I'll loan you a set of slicks already mounted. You can take a run at the next track day, or I can take you for a lap at the Ridge.

 

Swaybar endlinks. They don't need to be adjustable. They need to not flex. Use the AVO solid end links.

 

Rear Swaybar re-inforcing bracket. Yes. you need them.

 

Swaybars. Overly stiff swaybars don;t correct improperly adjusted suspensions.

 

Suspension tuning: If you don't have your c/o adjusted/corner balanced, you wasted your money. A competent shop (Group 2 in Bothell, etc) can make all the difference in how your car handles. You spent all the money on parts, why not get all the performance you paid for?

 

If you get all done and the speeding tickets are getting old, check out motorsportreg.com for local track events. With 3 hours of Seattle, exist 6 road-racing tracks (mission, area 27, pacific raceways, the ridge, bremerton, portland). Add in 10 places to autox. And at least 2 drag strips. There's enough track time available to break Bill Gates. The Porsche Driver Skills at Bremerton (next date Oct - https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/drivers-skills-october-22-2016-bremerton-motorsports-park-pca-pacific-northwest-532693 ) is a great place to try out your stock car (Prius, suburban, carrera GT, LGT sedan/wagon, etc).

 

Besides Sharlp actively tracking in the PNW, there's my street car and my racecar. probably a few more around. Another one would be fun.

[boxkita]

Keep me in the loop as well. I'm getting interested in going around here (Bay Area), but just starting with HPDEs.. (hopefully I haven't annoyed anyone with my frequent references to that).

If you are in the Bay Area, Thunderhill is a local favorite. the Audi club in that area does alot of track days and welcomes other AWD cars.

 

If you are not using motorsportreg.com and/or have not joined Audi owners club, you're missing out. motorsportreg is free. Audi is $50/yr.

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

@OP - where is "Pacific NW" ? If you are going to PIA, I'm guessing Seattle area? We should talk. :-)

PM'd.

 

Especially the brakes. The OEM calipers are really good. Add some brake ducting and they are great. On the road, I run Hawk HPS, which work great if you understand how to use brakes. Not so great, if you don't. Upgrade to stainless lines. 600 degrees rated fluid. Everything else is bling.

I looked into Hawk HPS and considered modifying the stock system. Though, it's very attractive to bolt on the Stoptech kits that have everything, SS brake lines included, then just add new fluid. I'm 75% on the funtion, though 25% just wants that look of the Stoptechs stuffed in the wheels.

 

The W/L parts. Especially the motorsports parts. Your car will rattle your teeth on anything other than the newly paved sections.

I've rear both ways, that the NVH will be terrible or it's livable. With my recent stereo install, I had sound dampening put in from firewall to trunk. It's dead quiet now. If it ends up being unlivable, I'll replace them with something else. Bushings aren't crazy expensive.

 

Unless you have driven your car at the limits (autox/track), you have no idea what's its capable of. If you don't believe me, I'll loan you a set of slicks already mounted. You can take a run at the next track day, or I can take you for a lap at the Ridge.

I might just have to take you up on that...

 

If you get all done and the speeding tickets are getting old, check out motorsportreg.com for local track events. With 3 hours of Seattle, exist 6 road-racing tracks (mission, area 27, pacific raceways, the ridge, bremerton, portland). Add in 10 places to autox. And at least 2 drag strips. There's enough track time available to break Bill Gates. The Porsche Driver Skills at Bremerton (next date Oct - https://www.motorsportreg.com/events/drivers-skills-october-22-2016-bremerton-motorsports-park-pca-pacific-northwest-532693 ) is a great place to try out your stock car (Prius, suburban, carrera GT, LGT sedan/wagon, etc).

Honestly, I haven't had a speeding ticket in 10 years... My girl always teases me about driving like a grandpa.

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

Shralp & Boxkita - The tracking does look really interesting and fun. I might sign up for the Porsche Driver Skills at Bremerton.

[scoobyscoodle]

I know the shocks are up for the task

[TheMonaLisa]

The stock brakes are pretty good. STI Brembos are significantly better. But if you want the Stoptech BBK and have the money, then get it. You get what you pay for. It's not a waste of money if it truly makes you happy.

 

You know the list of WL and other suspension parts I just installed. IMO, 90% of the increased NVH is from the higher spring rates.

 

 

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[boxkita]

I always dig posts like this.

 

The stock brakes are pretty good. STI Brembos are significantly better. But if you want the Stoptech BBK and have the money, then get it. You get what you pay for. It's not a waste of money if it truly makes you happy.

 

With equal tires, equal pads and equal driving style, all 3 systems would provide nearly equal experience. Unless, of course, you drive like an asshat all the time and do repeated tire-smoking stops. There will be minor differences, however, not enough to match the dollar expenditure.

 

You know the list of WL and other suspension parts I just installed. IMO, 90% of the increased NVH is from the higher spring rates.

 

Higher-spring rates don't rattle your teeth and blur your vision, otherwise no one would ever buy a truck. Removing all the soft rubber pieces from the moving suspension components is what causes NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness). The squeaks and rattles? That's NVH. The popping noise you hear from the rear of the car when you managed to get your snow tires warm enough after the 3rd lap around the clover leaf? That's NVH.

 

If you really to get a dose of NVH, get a set of BFG R1 with a light set of wheels and head to your nearest track. Mount your go-pro without the plastic cover inside next to the passenger seat headrest. Find yourself a nice rhythm thru a sweeper with the tires right at the edge of sliding...all those noises you hear? That's NVH. Then again, in that situation, you realize all that money you spent is so worth the absolutely sucky ride around town.

 

BTW, OP and I had an offline chat. Hopefully we'll find a mutually workable track day in the near future. I always enjoy LGT's at the track. Mostly I enjoy the slack-jawed expressions on the bystander's faces. Maybe we can get a few more to show up, too.

[shralp]

I'm all about slack jaw expressions, can't get enough of that in paddock!

[magnusonsubie]

Next summer depending when I'm on a ship or not I should be at one drivers skills day and a hopefully at least one day on track.

[boxkita]

Next summer depending when I'm on a ship or not I should be at one drivers skills day and a hopefully at least one day on track.

Not to hijack OP's thread anymore, but...if we can find a day that works, probably could get ~10 wagons on track at the same time.

[magnusonsubie]

Not to hijack OP's thread anymore, but...if we can find a day that works, probably could get ~10 wagons on track at the same time.

And then OP's sedan can be right there with us

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

With equal tires, equal pads and equal driving style, all 3 systems would provide nearly equal experience. Unless, of course, you drive like an asshat all the time and do repeated tire-smoking stops. There will be minor differences, however, not enough to match the dollar expenditure.

 

Has anyone compared the overall stopping distances in an emergency braking situation with the above variations?

If I can find it, I will post a review I read about Stoptechs. It compared some different set ups and described the feel of the car as well. The Stoptechs had a raving review about the car feeling like it was "squatting" under hard braking, instead of the typical nose dive. Constant feel, control, and predictability *when* that oh shit moment happens.

 

As far as cost of the brakes. Some people are happy with a Kia, some the Legacy, and some a Ferrari. All are very different in price point, with different levels of comfort, power, and purpose. If I can make the Legacy comfortable, yet never question it's capabilities in safety, I'm a happy camper. Also, as said before, this has been my dream build car for about 10 years when I saw the first 05 roll past me. It might take $ and time to get it built, but I feel it will meet and exceed my expectations once I'm there.

 

BTW, OP and I had an offline chat. Hopefully we'll find a mutually workable track day in the near future. I always enjoy LGT's at the track. Mostly I enjoy the slack-jawed expressions on the bystander's faces. Maybe we can get a few more to show up, too.

 

I am getting more and more open to the idea of tracking the Legacy. If I can make my driving skills better in the process, I'll probably be finding more time to dedicate to the track.

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

And then OP's sedan can be right there with us

 

I know there are a few Wagons and Sedans in the RainCitySubies group that would probably want to attend as well.

[magnusonsubie]

I know there are a few Wagons and Sedans in the RainCitySubies group that would probably want to attend as well.

Probably. But most of the ones that would track are also on this forum. They just don't have easy to identify usernames.

[wesleyCrowbar]

All this talk of track time has me excited! Not to hijack, but how is the stock/stock-ish radiator?

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

Hijacking is Ok with me (within reason).

The more discussion, the more questions and answers that come up.

[boxkita]

All this talk of track time has me excited! Not to hijack, but how is the stock/stock-ish radiator?

as long as its not leaking, fine.

[boxkita]

Has anyone compared the overall stopping distances in an emergency braking situation with the above variations?

If I can find it, I will post a review I read about Stoptechs. It compared some different set ups and described the feel of the car as well. The Stoptechs had a raving review about the car feeling like it was "squatting" under hard braking, instead of the typical nose dive. Constant feel, control, and predictability *when* that oh shit moment happens.

 

I am getting more and more open to the idea of tracking the Legacy. If I can make my driving skills better in the process, I'll probably be finding more time to dedicate to the track.

 

Stock LGT calipers, Hawk DTC70/60 pads, centric premium disks, s/s lines, motul 600 fluid, BFG R1 slicks at optimum temperature took my wagon from ~140 to 10 with no issues. Of course, it boiled the fluid so the next corner I had nothing. But you didn't say 2 emergency stops in a row.

 

If the car is squatting under hard braking, it means the rears are biting harder than the fronts. Which happens when the brake bias is incorrect. 70% of your braking force should be on the front wheels.

 

If its squatting it means you don't have enough weight on the front tires to do anything, like steer around the thing you're panic braking for. Think about a fast motorbike...if it was rear wheel biased in braking, how much harder would it be to steer around the cell-phone zombie walking across the road?