Question about dyno tuners

[Jwellens]

Looking to maybe have my engine replaced or rebuilt by a shop and also getting a BNR 16g turbo + mishimoto TMIC for my legacy gt. I live in southeast Wisconsin and I was looking at some shops to do the work for me.

 

Shop 1: Top Shelf Performance, Portage WI. They are about 1 hr 45 min away and they are the cheapest so far as far as the replacement goes. My only issue is, they street tune all their cars because they do not have a dyno.

 

Shop 2: Boostin Performance, Schaumburg IL. I have yet to contact them and see what their rates are but they are 15 minutes closer than top shelf and they seem to be more popular. They also have a mustang dyno to tune. Has anyone ever had their LGT tuned here or had any work done to their LGT here? They do a lot of Evos and a decent amount of wrx/sti.

 

Shop 3: Quantum Performance, Port Washington WI. Closest shop to me but their price/estimate was through the roof. I've heard many great things from them and they also have a dyno for tuning. Their cost to JUST REPLACE/REBUILD THE MOTOR was a much as a new turbo and TMIC + engine rebuild at Top Shelf.

 

If anyone could give me a little insight, review or anything you've heard from these shops that would be great. Also, don't tell me about P&L, they were beyond ridiculous for their price.

 

All input is appreciated, thanks guys!

[Jwellens]

Forgot the last shop, AMS performance in west Chicago IL. I have yet to call them as well and would like to know if anyone has gotten a tune from them or any motor work done by them and how it went

[coldsoda]

if you havent purchased already, the grimmspeed top mount is about the best you can get on these cars.

 

Also, Ive street tuned every one of my susbarus with both the tuner in person and I've worked with e-tuners. I've only done a dyno-tune twice. Ive personally had 4 different "pro-tuned" turbo subarus and Ive dealt with 5 different tuners throughout the last 8+ years or so. Ive had my car on a dyno after a street tune and numbers were in line with those strictly dyno-tuned with the same mods on the same dyno. All that to say, not having a dyno isn't a reason to turn away if the shop has top notch mechanics and subaru knowledge.

[Gex]

16g stock injector with topmount upgrade? Grab an accessport and get an E-Tune. I think Tuning Alliance? On here is the new go to.

[Jwellens]

16g stock injector with topmount upgrade? Grab an accessport and get an E-Tune. I think Tuning Alliance? On here is the new go to.

 

Yea, I went to get my car tuned and they told me that they can't tune my car because my turbo was leaking oil into my intercooler. So I have to replace my intercooler and my turbo and the 16g was cheaper than OEM, and I need another TMIC. For me the grimmspeed is a little out of my price range and I can get a mishimoto TMIC for $630. I'm staying on stock fuel because I do not have the money to upgrade.

[Max Capacity]

before you spend anymore money contact http://www.tuningalliance.com I have been working with them for many years. Mike is one of, if not the best with these cars.

You can read more about them in the tuning forum here.

 

Mike put my wagon on the Mustang dyno back after I put the ej257 in. Since then and before that all the other updates were done by street tuning. He even did a street tune after the dyno to make sure the car was smooth on the street. From reading others post about there cars after a dyno tune and then having Mike street tune the car, The street tune after the dyno is important.

[Mike07LGT]

You might want to consider having your factory turbo rebuilt by JMP instead of running a BNR 16g. A few people have had issues with that turbo and its cost effective to have the stock rebuilt to handle more boost. Just a thought

[RWebb]

I will jsut say there is a lot of drama around the Chicago shops. Search the IL page on NASIOC for details.

[BrianEarlSpilner]

Before anyone can help you make any decisions here, you should probably state your goals and use for the car... is this your daily? or will it be primarily a toy? what type of power goals are you shooting for? These factors make a huge difference not only with the choice of shop but also what performance parts are needed (or what parts are a best fit). For instance a road tune would be just fine for a lightly modded daily, but perhaps you'd rather be on a dyno for your track day beast... help us help you

 

You might be better off with a JMP rebuilt vf40 rather than a BNR (although I have no complaints with my 18G) based on recent forum info. Also you could possibly get by with a bullet proof mod for your TMIC and not even need a new one. You could probably source a decent Perrin or Avo for $400-600 and save a bit on the TMIC.

[Jwellens]

Before anyone can help you make any decisions here, you should probably state your goals and use for the car... is this your daily? or will it be primarily a toy? what type of power goals are you shooting for? These factors make a huge difference not only with the choice of shop but also what performance parts are needed (or what parts are a best fit). For instance a road tune would be just fine for a lightly modded daily, but perhaps you'd rather be on a dyno for your track day beast... help us help you

 

You might be better off with a JMP rebuilt vf40 rather than a BNR (although I have no complaints with my 18G) based on recent forum info. Also you could possibly get by with a bullet proof mod for your TMIC and not even need a new one. You could probably source a decent Perrin or Avo for $400-600 and save a bit on the TMIC.

 

It's a daily that I want to have a little fun with. I want to go a little conservative on the tune for reliability sake. I'm really not looking for any number but if I had to say, I'd be very content with 280whp (if that's even possible with stock fuel system). And how long would the JMP rebuild cost and how much time would it take up? I need to use my car every day so the least amount of days out of service the better. And this is all of my turbo is actually on the way out.

Thanks for making me clarify my goals. I should've done it earlier

[Max Capacity]

Mike Kinsman of TA has my wagon making 280whp on stock fueling on a heart breaker Mustang dyno. Over 75,000 miles at that power on my DD.

 

You need to talk with him before you spend your money.

[ttnio]

280 whp is plenty for a daily driven car on public roads.

 

Well, at least on my daily driven route it is, and I am non stage.

[tocinoman25]

I will jsut say there is a lot of drama around the Chicago shops. Search the IL page on NASIOC for details.

Yup...we had sti mikey come out every 6 months or so to tune some Chicago and Midwest subies and evos.

 

I'm looking for a new tuner here in the desert though. Good luck with your build and mods...itll be fun

 

It's addicting lol...I was stage 2/ full bolt on elh, dp, fuel pump cobb ap and that only lasted less than a year til I did turbo clutch and injector upgrades.

 

 

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[coldsoda]

Yup...we had sti mikey come out every 6 months or so to tune some Chicago and Midwest subies and evos.

 

I'm looking for a new tuner here in the desert though. Good luck with your build and mods...itll be fun

 

It's addicting lol...I was stage 2/ full bolt on elh, dp, fuel pump cobb ap and that only lasted less than a year til I did turbo clutch and injector upgrades.

 

 

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where in the desert are you nowadays?

[Holla]

Quantum did my 6 speed swap. They delivered my car 100% in the time frame they promised. They were very easy to work with and I have not had a single issue with their work. If I needed to use a shop in the Milwaukee area again, I wouldn't hesitate to use them. Their price seemed reasonable. A 6 speed swap runs about 1k for install and they came in right under that. My understanding is they only tune Accessport though, which will run another $600 for the controller itself if you don't have one. They are extremely knowledgable and it would be worth your time to drive up there and at least ask for their advice.

 

Ironically, I had my car tuned 5 years ago by Tuning Alliance by Max's recommendation when I lived in MA. My car has run flawless, so well in fact that I haven't changed a single thing for the fear of ruining a prefectly running car.

 

 

I agree with subie-noobie. Find a used Perrin or Avo TMIC. You should be able to find something under $500 used. I have a oem tmic if you need one in mke, bullet proof it and you should be good.

 

I do also have a vf-40 core sitting in my garage in mke if you're looking for one...

[tocinoman25]

where in the desert are you nowadays?

Las Vegas...friggin 91 stinks lol

Looks like church automotive is decent for my new tuner

 

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[Max Capacity]

See Holla's post about the vf40 core, might be a good option to have rebuilt.

[Jwellens]

Now, I sort of am looking at upgrading my fuel system. If i was to get a fuel pump but stay on stock injectors would that make any difference? Do the stock injectors limit the stock fuel pump? Or does the stock fuel pump limit the stock injectors? I'm going to look on the classifieds to get a pump and injector. I'm also looking to stay side feed injectors.

[Gex]

Changing the fuel pump is a great idea. I recommend the DW65C. It is a direct drop in pump. The stock pump does not limit the injector but at heavy duty cycles the stock pump can fail leaving you stranded.

[Holla]

Changing the pump is a good idea. DW65c is the most popular choice.

 

You really need to decide on a turbo and tuner before buying injectors. Different tuners prefer different injectors.

 

Are you sticking with an oem long block?

 

I've run stock injectors and pump on a vf-52 for a long time now. I'm suprised the pump is holding out with 150k on it and 1/3 of those miles have been pro tuned with the vf-52.

[Jwellens]

Changing the fuel pump is a great idea. I recommend the DW65C. It is a direct drop in pump. The stock pump does not limit the injector but at heavy duty cycles the stock pump can fail leaving you stranded.

 

So if I go with a 65cc pump, will my injectors be holding me back then? Will I just be "bullet-proofing" my fuel system or will I see any gains?

 

I'm really just trying to have a car that doesn't get -11.75 fine knock and -12.00 feedback knock with the twice a week drop in my DAM.

[Jwellens]

Changing the pump is a good idea. DW65c is the most popular choice.

 

You really need to decide on a turbo and tuner before buying injectors. Different tuners prefer different injectors.

 

Are you sticking with an oem long block?

 

I've run stock injectors and pump on a vf-52 for a long time now. I'm suprised the pump is holding out with 150k on it and 1/3 of those miles have been pro tuned with the vf-52.

 

This is the build that Top Shelf performance gave me. This is without a new turbo and intercooler.

 

(BUILD PIC)

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=234628&d=1469762171

[Holla]

So if I go with a 65cc pump, will my injectors be holding me back then? Will I just be "bullet-proofing" my fuel system or will I see any gains?

 

I'm really just trying to have a car that doesn't get -11.75 fine knock and -12.00 feedback knock with the twice a week drop in my DAM.

 

Yes, the injectors will be holding back power, but it really depends on what your goals are and which turbo you select.

 

The shop's list seems in line. Average price for a rebuild with a new short block is about 6k. Going rate for a new short block is about $1,800 if you buy it online.

 

One thing I'm not seeing is a clutch. Not sure what you're currently running but you'll probably want a new clutch and swap to a single mass flywheel if you're running the dual mass.

 

I know Quantum has 'stage' blocks that they build with forged internals. What did they qoute you?

[Holla]

Have you done a compression and leak down test? Are you sure you even need a rebuild?

[Jwellens]

Have you done a compression and leak down test? Are you sure you even need a rebuild?

 

I am getting one done this week but for me, I'm trying to figure out which shop i want to do it. I'd rather have the shop that does the compression/leakdown test be the shop that does the whole rebuild. i'm trying to figure out pricing right now so the shop I do go to won't screw me over with cost.