Chris GTO TT Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 I plan to keep an eye on the cooling system, especially because of my plan for it. Of course this is true for pretty much any vehicle you plan to use to tow. However most of the other problems you mention don't apply to 06-10 V8 Explorers with the 3V 4.6, those issues are more common on the 02-05 2V 4.6 V8 Explorers with the older 5R55S 5spd automatic. Even then most of the stuff I could find said Ford made changes to the 2V heads in 01 to fix the plug issues of the earlier ones. You may work on cars for a living, but it's increasingly clear you are giving advice based on completely unrelated vehicles. It'd be like saying a Subaru 2.2L is extremely reliable, so the 2.5L Turbos are also reliable. If you cannot do the simple research (or actually read what I posted multiple times) to know the difference between a 2V Modular motor and a 3V or the 6R60 is not remotely related to the 5R55S then maybe you shouldn't give free advice. Your desire to be helpful is appreciated, but giving misinformed advice, and claiming it as Gospel is just annoying. A lot of people are also of the opinion you need a F350/3500 diesel to tow anything more than a 3000lb trailer, to me that's like saying "I need to drive a nail in the wall let me get out a 10lb sledge hammer." Yeah it'll do the job but its massively, hilariously overkill. I'm perfectly content using this vehicle with the same drivetrain Ford installed in the F150 for a couple of years to tow 4000-5000lbs. If I were to post that I had bought a 4.6 6spd F150 FX4 for this purpose no one would bat an eye, but because it's an Explorer everyone is sure it's going to blow up because their mom's, grandma's, neighbor's, nephew had a 94 Explorer which rolled over and killed the neighbors cat after impregnating the youngest daughter out of wedlock. Yes I took a reliability gamble compared to buying a 4x4 i-VVT Tundra/Sequoia/4Runner, but can buy nearly 2 transmissions for the difference between a similar Toyota and what I paid for this Explorer. I really didn't feel like paying $18k plus for a 10 plus year old 4x4 V8 Toyota/Lexus with 130k-150k miles. TL;DR: Make sure you're talking about the same thing before giving advice. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Do basic maintenance, use good fluids, and tow with some common sense and you'll be fine. IMHO, most of the spark plug problems with the Ford motors was because of the stupid 100k mile replacement schedule. The 4.6/5.4s I've had, I changed them much sooner and never had any issues. WRT towing specs, IMHO, they're based on sea level, flat ground and overall best case scenarios... throw some mountains in the mix and all bets are off! Personally, I rather like hilarious overkill, when I can have it. It makes for an easy drive, and less wear and tear. But that doesn't mean it's necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 Do basic maintenance, use good fluids, and tow with some common sense and you'll be fine. IMHO, most of the spark plug problems with the Ford motors was because of the stupid 100k mile replacement schedule. The 4.6/5.4s I've had, I changed them much sooner and never had any issues. WRT towing specs, IMHO, they're based on sea level, flat ground and overall best case scenarios... throw some mountains in the mix and all bets are off! Personally, I rather like hilarious overkill, when I can have it. It makes for an easy drive, and less wear and tear. But that doesn't mean it's necessary. The tow ratings used to be like that, Mfg just threw whatever they felt like on there. Now IIRC most use the new SAE rating http://www.caranddriver.com/features/that-dam-towing-test-new-sae-trailering-standards-explained-tech-dept However since this vehicle is pre-adoption it's best leave some overhead especially where grades are involved. Also your setup isn't overkill lol. Luxury cabover extended camper, 20' enclosed trailer... I'd say you're setup is pretty well rounded. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Also your setup isn't overkill lol. Luxury cabover extended camper, 20' enclosed trailer... I'd say you're setup is pretty well rounded. Not even close to overkill... not at 19k gross combined... Though, I fondly remember racing motorcycles and pulling a small enclosed trailer with a diesel and getting 18mpg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Tow ratings prior to the SAE J2807 guidelines are a total crap shoot. My observations with towing are that if you do it frequently, or for long distances on grades that you are better off with excess capacity. One other area not touched on here is that outside of the power train and cooling system overkill of a larger than "needed" tow vehicle, is the extra margin of control from the heavier tow vehicle. A heavier truck or SUV with a longer wheelbase is going to be more stable with a trailer behind it than a shorter lighter vehicle with the same trailer. As for power train performance of the engine and transmission, if I have to pick between lots of power or lots of cooling capacity for all fluids I'll take cooling capacity first. Combine an engine and transmission with a lot of ability to handle high load cooling needs with proper gearing and you will reliably get where you want to go, albeit a bit more slowly than you'd like. Ideally you have both a lot of power and the ability to keep everything cool while under high loads but that is usually going to be a heavy duty set up. Of course I tend to try to get the big stick whether I need it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Tow ratings prior to the SAE J2807 guidelines are a total crap shoot. My observations with towing are that if you do it frequently, or for long distances on grades that you are better off with excess capacity. One other area not touched on here is that outside of the power train and cooling system overkill of a larger than "needed" tow vehicle, is the extra margin of control from the heavier tow vehicle. A heavier truck or SUV with a longer wheelbase is going to be more stable with a trailer behind it than a shorter lighter vehicle with the same trailer. As for power train performance of the engine and transmission, if I have to pick between lots of power or lots of cooling capacity for all fluids I'll take cooling capacity first. Combine an engine and transmission with a lot of ability to handle high load cooling needs with proper gearing and you will reliably get where you want to go, albeit a bit more slowly than you'd like. Ideally you have both a lot of power and the ability to keep everything cool while under high loads but that is usually going to be a heavy duty set up. Of course I tend to try to get the big stick whether I need it or not. Yep, that's why I'm planning on utilizing less than 75% of the 'rated' capacity for the Explorer. I'm somewhat on the fence about the 'necessity' of tow vehicle weight. To an extent it is important yes, but the importance has become slightly over exaggerated. Some claim you should never tow more than the weight of your tow vehicle, but a 2016 F350 curb weight is at max 7,000. Using that guideline you are unable to tow more than 7,000lbs with a diesel F350. I feel proper loading one of the most important and over looked items when towing anything. I too would take a better cooled less powerful setup than one with less cooling and more power. IMO towing at more than 65mph is more dangerous than necessary, and with CA having a fairly strict 55mph towing speed limit I'm not too worried about setting any land speed records. I might have preferred a larger stick too, but between having a larger truck for daily driving, and the cost of a bigger stick I'm okay with this purchase. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 15, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 15, 2016 I currently tow a 2000# dry weight pop up (w/ brakes) and a 5x8 utility trailer that I load up with about 3000# or so when I tow it. I tow it with a minivan. 2013 honda odyssey. Regarding tow ratings, they seem to have been a crap shoot since about...forever? I believe a 1987 voyager (minivan) was rated at 3500# capacity and it had 170hp and everything 198x to go along with it. How is it that my van has the same rating with 100 extra horsepower and huge brakes (in comparison)? Tow ratings in the states seem very much base on litigation. I'm actually considering upgrading our popup to a lightweight travel trailer coming in around 2700# dry weight. The discussions I've had have been everything between "your van can tow a house no problem" and "you and your family are all gonna die." The reality is in between, but people sure love to argue about it. I'm tempted to pick up a truck, but as Chris mentions, I'm tempted to just plan for a couple transmission swaps on the Odyssey and call it good fortune if I don't have to do any. Cheaper than adding a shitty truck to the fleet just to appease the armchair-towing-quarterbacks. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 15, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 15, 2016 Also, I tow slow, have adequate coolers, etc. If I go to a bigger trailer I'll add more AT cooling for sure. Brakes on a heavier trailer are a game changer, IMO. They are awesome to have. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 BarManBean I regret to inform you that you van blew up years ago and you and your family also died in the transmission explosion. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Yep, that's why I'm planning on utilizing less than 75% of the 'rated' capacity for the Explorer. I'm somewhat on the fence about the 'necessity' of tow vehicle weight. To an extent it is important yes, but the importance has become slightly over exaggerated. Some claim you should never tow more than the weight of your tow vehicle, but a 2016 F350 curb weight is at max 7,000. Using that guideline you are unable to tow more than 7,000lbs with a diesel F350. I feel proper loading one of the most important and over looked items when towing anything. I too would take a better cooled less powerful setup than one with less cooling and more power. IMO towing at more than 65mph is more dangerous than necessary, and with CA having a fairly strict 55mph towing speed limit I'm not too worried about setting any land speed records. I might have preferred a larger stick too, but between having a larger truck for daily driving, and the cost of a bigger stick I'm okay with this purchase. Towing a bumper pull setup I am inclined to agree that anything significantly heavier than the tow vehicle is less than ideal. Granted proper trailer loading so the tongue weight isn't excessive will help, as will trailer brakes. The issue I have with bumper pull towing a lot of weight is that often times sway control is less than ideal, and many heavy bumper pull trailers are also giant flat sided wind catchers like enclosed car trailers and campers. Now if you have a 5th wheel hitch in the bed of a truck that is a very different animal since that distributes the trailer weight much much more evenly over the drive axle and steer axle of the tow vehicle as well as changes the relative leverage of the trailer in windy or sway conditions. The last time I towed anything much more than a few miles was picking up a friend's old 1979 Camaro on a car trailer and dragging it from Valentine, NE to Hot Springs, SD. Lots of short steep hills, and it was hotter than **** that day. Total weight of the trailer loaded was probably around 4500lbs, and I was using my 2007 Tundra with the 5.7L and 4.30:1 rear end as the tow vehicle. This truck also has a good oil cooler, and transmission cooler. The trailer had no trailer brakes so all braking was via the truck. Pulled it without a problem, and even allowed me to pass some slow pokes on a two lane highway. No heat issues, and the brakes were adequate. That said if it were any heavier I'd want trailer brakes, and if the same weight trailer was a camper I'd want a sway control hitch. Above 7500lbs it would be much slower, probably time to look at a 3/4 ton and a diesel if I was going to tow frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I could also regale you with stories of towing 19,000 tons but that would not be applicable since you guys can't buy locomotives much less operate them on a public road. Seeing as how there is no steering wheel, and the state will frown upon a 416,000lb vehicle operating on a public highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 I get what you're saying Penguin, and I don't disagree. Some additional things to consider most states require trailer brakes on any trailer with a GVW of 3000lbs or more and most recommend a weight distributing hitch when towing more than 5000lbs. Obviously the frequency you plan to tow a specific weight will dictate the type of tow vehicle you need. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 You should be fine towing a Miata around with that Exploder. Most problems or broken down tow vehicles I've seen are flat landers towing campers out west on long grades. They discover the hard way that towing a giant sail in hot windy weather up hills is hard on vehicles, especially those who set about towing the max weight rating. Probably worked great in Illinois, not so much in the Black Hills or the Big Horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 So don't tow anything with a GM, Dodge or Ford? What are you basing your claims on? I'm skeptical to believe you simply because one of 'issues' you said this year explorer has isn't even possible. 3V 4.6/5.4's don't have the problem where the plugs back out. All of my research I can easily find say the 6R60/6R80 rarely have mechanical failures not related to over heating. Usually they have solenoid/electric gremlins related to over heating the fluid and not changing it often enough. Turbochargers put a lot of extra stress on cars I wouldn't recommend it especially ones with known ringland issues... GMs are more known for weak rear ends than trans but they have all had their issues. As for overheating the fluid how will you know if you are doing that? Does your explorer have a trans temp gauge? You're the one who made a towing thread around a Ford Explorer. Did you really expect not to catch some flak about it? :lol:It should work fine for towing your Miata to the track... of course that's what my mom and her husband thought about towing their pop up when they bought the mountaineer and when they bought the expedition to tow their 25ft hard wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Yes actually there's a sensor which is read by apps like torque and if I end up towing more often than I currently plan I'll probably add an extended finned transmission pan since the Explorer already has a fluid to water cooler and a fluid to air cooler. If the temp still gets too high I'd look into replacing the stock fluid to air cooler with a bigger/more efficient unit. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted August 15, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 15, 2016 BarManBean I regret to inform you that you van blew up years ago and you and your family also died in the transmission explosion. I'm saddened by this news. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 I'm saddened by this news. How's it feel to be a zombie? 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Back to what I had originally planned for this thread... Removed the Autozone special wind deflector and rain guards today. http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag459/christobal65/Explorer/IMG_20160821_192622_zpsdfcoblze.jpg http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag459/christobal65/Explorer/IMG_20160821_192600_zpsldwdldvr.jpg http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag459/christobal65/Explorer/IMG_20160821_192641_zpsvhen5jmf.jpg 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I like my rain guards. Looks clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 Good clean rain guards like the JDM ones for the Legacy are great, but these ones were more like the ones from the bargain section at Autozone. They were held on by gobbs of mounting tape. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianCitizen Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Truck looks super clean! And if it makes you feel any better I've been hauling with a 2004 4.6L 2V Explorer EB for 3 years without a single issue. No blown plugs, no problems shifting or with the 4x4. Only thing is it drinks like a sailor... picking up my new wheels on Friday.. 2013 Legacy 3.6r limited pkg. Explorer is being parked for future consideration. Sent from my STV100-3 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 Changed the spark plugs today, fortunately they were not the original ones so I didn't have any break. http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag459/christobal65/Explorer/IMG_20161106_115414_zpsompipsx6.jpg 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Excellent! Anti-seize on the new ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 Excellent! Anti-seize on the new ones? Yep I followed the TSB exactly! Though I'm not as worried about it since I only use Top Tier gas and plan on changing the plugs every 50k if I keep it that long. 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris GTO TT Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 Last week I dropped the transmission pan, changed the filter and the fluid. Just before that I changed the front differential, rear differential and transfer case fluid. Hand pumped 7+ quarts of Motorcraft SP into the transmission. http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag459/christobal65/Explorer/IMG_20170408_130755_zpsf9ylbkat.jpg 2003 Baja 5MT 2016 Outback 2.5i Premium w/Eyesight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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