Yukonart Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevmiesterj Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I actually like the Toyota Matrix. I don't know why, because in a way, the thing is kinda dopey, but cool. I was looking at it for a while. I liked the price, there was an AWD version and the gas mileage was pretty decent. However, lack of power in the AWD version (123 hp:eek:) and inability to actually get one (the Matrix is *flying* out of dealerships these days) kinda put me off. And I just didn't feel confident enough in the AWD system compared to the Soob system. But you turbo up one of those and perhaps put in sym AWD, and I might just be back at the local Toy shop dropping a deposit. Speculation is so fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 four threads merged - let's keep all the comments here please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 added a sticky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 GM just can't get it figured out, that much is clear. They have/had tech or manufacturing relationships with: Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Isuzu. What good has come of it except for the Pontiac Vibe, Saab 9-2X or Saturn VUE Redline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakuun Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Well, it's obvious that GM's issues are not completely engineering based.. a large part of it is their out of touch management. A family friend of mine has spent the last 4 years engineering parts for the H3. When asked "how's the H3 going to do" his reply was "Not well, my bosses are very worried". Also Patagonian... I wouldn't exactly call the VUE "good" I looked at one and it's a typical GM car..plastic crap. In fact, I was extremely disappointed by Saturns latest offerings. I also hear that Ion RL is a total peice of crap. Vibe.. ROFL.. I looked at those too when I was after my Leggy.. say this, I got my Leggy for about 2 grand more than what a basic vibe would'a run me. And it's not 1/4 the car the Leggy is. 9-2X was the ONLY good thing that came of the GM-FHI merger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Also Patagonian... I wouldn't exactly call the VUE "good" I looked at one and it's a typical GM car..plastic crap. Note: I said VUE Redline....it has the 3.5L Honda V-6 and 5sp automatic. At least the drivetrain is reliable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownBoy Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 oh my god. I just thought of something. my mom drives a forester, and my parents like it so much, we were gonna buy the chevy forester in india, so we would have a car for when we're there...guess that's not happening:lol: when my dad and i first saw that, we were pissed! a chevy bowtie on a subaru. craziness...but it wasnt a bad idea. subaru had no penetration/market saturation, chevys/GMs are considered luxury cars there...so it worked out okay i believe. they are pricey compared to other offerings though.. Overall, I believe that Toyota may not try to give too much input, b/c that could hurt some of their sales if they make Subaru too efficient, competitive, etc. The better suppliers will be there, the (hopefully) better fiscal planning will be suggested, and Subaru will free up more money for offering us REAL limited run cars like Legacy STis..WRX STi Spec Cs..etc:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Toyota is a BEHEMOTH compared to Subaru. They wouldn't be worried for a minute that they would cut into sales at all. Totally different market segments.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakuun Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 That and Toyota really doesn't have a true everyday 'performance' car anymore without Celica or Supra. Although it is rumored that they are developing a new Supra..I doubt it'll be any sort of direct competition for Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 S2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 10% is not a big deal...either Suzuki or Isuzu has a 4% stake or something like that in Subaru. I think this will give Subaru access to Toyota's supply chain and Hybrid tech. In return Toyota will get access to the lithium battery. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 S2000 You mean the Honda product, or are you referring to the old 2000GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbacis Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Note: I said VUE Redline....it has the 3.5L Honda V-6 and 5sp automatic. At least the drivetrain is reliable... The only difference in the redline is the suspension and some ricey exterior parts, drivetrain/tranny is identical. I own a V6 AWD Vue (non-redline) with the Honda engine. As for the "plastic crap" comment by Drakuun, if you're referring to the body panels they are the second best thing about the vehicle (1st being the engine). I absolutely love being able to bang the crap out the thing without any repercussions. Whereas my Legacy has unexplicable dents in it. If you were referring to the interior plastic, I agree wholeheartedly, cheap as can be. Their excuse for AWD sucks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakuun Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 The only difference in the redline is the suspension and some ricey exterior parts, drivetrain/tranny is identical. I own a V6 AWD Vue (non-redline) with the Honda engine. As for the "plastic crap" comment, if you're referring to the body panels they are the second best thing about the vehicle (1st being the engine). I absolutely love being able to bang the crap out the thing without any repercussions. Whereas my Legacy has unexplicable dents in it. If you were referring to the interior plastic, I agree wholeheartedly, cheap as can be. Their excuse for AWD sucks too. Yeah their body panel tech is very nice I admit, I agree, it's one of the best things they got going for them.. Interior is where I was instantly turned off by the VUE. I was helping my Sister look for a new SUV or Car and we were looking at VUE's and Ions, and left very very unimpressed. Not long after I got to take a ride in a Cobolt and was equally unimpressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 The only difference in the redline is the suspension and some ricey exterior parts, drivetrain/tranny is identical. I own a V6 AWD Vue (non-redline) with the Honda engine. As for the "plastic crap" comment, if you're referring to the body panels they are the second best thing about the vehicle (1st being the engine). I absolutely love being able to bang the crap out the thing without any repercussions. Whereas my Legacy has unexplicable dents in it. If you were referring to the interior plastic, I agree wholeheartedly, cheap as can be. Their excuse for AWD sucks too. NOTE: I didn't say 'plastic crap' - someone else did, and they were referring to the interior, which like all GM is very much plastic crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eles1 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Toyota is a BEHEMOTH compared to Subaru. They wouldn't be worried for a minute that they would cut into sales at all. Totally different market segments.... Yeah. Toyota's on the verge of overtaking Ford for the #2 spot among automakers - if they haven't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil_Sol Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 ooo camry Sti.... Echo Sti.. or TRD impreza... supercharged sti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 If any Subaru vehicle get the TRD moniker, that'll be the end. As I said before, whoever came up with that acronym (T*u*RD) should be sacked, and that name canceled and re-developed. I beleive I already mentioned that Subaru could be a collaborator with Toyota to produce some performance that Toyota is SORELY lacking, and I think they have noticed that. No more MR2. (Second Gen coupe was the best) No More Celica after how many decades. No more supra for a while now. CERTAINLY nothing in the vein of the 2000GT since. With "the Coupe" coming back, Subaru could be Toyota's business vehicle/collaborator to sell a couple of performance coupes in a slightly higher category than the tC. With rumors of the upcoming Supra (if anything ever comes of it) it could be significantly north of M3 territory, pricewise at the very least. Toyota HAS nothing, and isn't looking to GET anything in the 20-35k price bracket (aside from maybe a base IS250) with any sort of performance. The WRX, WRX STI, and Legacy GT are already there. An Impreza coupe, and a Legacy-based SVX replacement GT fastback could be a real plug for the huge gaping hole in Toyota's lineup, and with some marketing, and supplier/infrastructure assistance from Toyota, it could be beneficial for both. Even with only a small fraction of interest, one would thing synergies would expand beyond "hybrid" drive systems. The world doesn't revolve around that, just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 GM does have a partnership with Toyota so it really doesn't change much. Toyota's NUUMI plant is a partnership with GM. The Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe are both built on the same production line. There's also the more complicated relationship with the GM-Vauxhall-Lotus-Toyota-Saturn car that will be here in the near future. So it really doesn't matter who owns who because it seems everyone owns a share in everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
type b Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Am I missing something? If GM are selling the shares to Toyota and others, then FHI and Subaru will see none of the money. A Joint Venture is a joint venture - Toyota doesn't have to buy into Subaru to set one up and it sounds to me like the Subaru hybrid development is already a long way down the track and the Toyota input would be too late for this generation. As far as I can see nothing changes for a couple of years at least, with the exception that Subaru will stop selling the rebranded Opel Zafira in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 The thing people need to realize about Japanese companies is that to have any sort of control in a Japanese company, an investor has to own at least 49%. GM had bought the 20% from Nissan in the mid to late 90's when Nissan was about to go under. Nissan had no real influence over Subaru's operations and neither did GM. That doesn't mean Subaru can't collaborate with their investor and I'm sure it helps grease the skids somewhat (like it did for the 9-2x). I wouldn't expect huge changes out of this. For an example of what I'm talking about, look at Mazda. Ford had owned a small portion of Mazda for decades but Mazda always acted as their own company. Then, in the 90's, Ford bought more and reached 49% ownership. Now there's all sorts of platform and engine sharing between Mazda and Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrod Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 They're going to make an AWD, 3.0 boxer engine, twin turbo.....SUBARU SUPRA WOOOOOOOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93formula Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 This will change nothing in the way subaru is run, cause toyota will have no voting rights and very little say in what the company does. Hell, gm had 20% and had little say. The will make some hybrids together. I'd expect to see a prius with a 70-80mpg rating with the new batteries and a subaru hybrid in about 1-2 years. Thats all I see happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Yeah. I hope the next Legacy doesn't end up looking like a Camry or something. or worse yet...looking like the front end of a Suzuki Forenza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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