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2015 Legacy 2.5 oil burning


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1 Qt is about a litre; if Subaru is burning 1 litre of oil per 2000Km, then sorry Subaru fans, but that car is not for me.

None of my cars EVER burned oil and I do not want to have car burning anything else than benzin.

 

All cars burn oil, period. As oil's get thinner & lighter for better MPG and oil change intervals get extended to lower cost of ownership it is not surprising that it is seen more often than before.

 

Lot's of misinformation & misconceptions in this thread. Hopefully I can clear some of it up.

 

If your are, or think you are, having an oil consumption issue get your car to a dealership to have it checked out. If you are unhappy with one dealer's assessment, get a second opinion at another dealer.

 

Subaru has acknowledge that some engines DO have a consumption issue and has a procedure in place to repair those.

 

Subaru has a procedure to determine how much oil an engine is consuming and if it is above those "acceptable" levels they will repair those issues.

 

Subaru has also found other minor concerns that are causing oil level warning lights to come on erroneously and they have repairs in place (ECM Updates, Updated Oil Level Sensors, etc) to address those as well.

 

If your Subaru is consuming 10.7oz. or more per 1,200 miles it will receive a new, updated short-block assembly. Just note that Subaru's oil consumption limit is a lower consumption rate than the industry standard of 1 qt per 1,000 miles.

 

If you don't mind losing a few MPG, start using a quality 5W-30 engine oil instead of the 0W-20 and any consumption you may be having will be reduced. Thanks CAFE standards.

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All cars burn oil, period.

 

uhhh... nope. none of my previous vehicles have ever burned oil. Even after 200k miles. While I understand that a small amount of oil burn is ok, this is outrageous.

 

 

Just note that Subaru's oil consumption limit is a lower consumption rate than the industry standard of 1 qt per 1,000 miles.

 

Industry Standard? Consumer Reports and many other outlets beg to differ:

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm

 

There's also a large number of class action lawsuits that Subaru is losing against, so claiming that it's an industry standard actually isn't. If it truly was an industry standard, there would be a majority of vehicles consuming this much oil. Currently it's about 2%, so I'd hardly classify that as an industry standard.

 

In addition, if this was "normal" I should have been told that when I bought the car I'd have to not only fill it with gas, but oil. Never a mention, even when I asked.

Edited by sf.basilix
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I'm going to put this in the poll thread as well, but I'm curious to all those who have oil consumption issues - what oil are you using? Have you gone to the dealer and used the Idemitsu? Or have you used better oil? For those who aren't having oil consumption issues, what oil are you using?
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my response:

what oil are you using? Mobil1 0W20 for the last 50,000. Switched to Pennzoil on the last oil change, but the consumption is identical.

 

Have you gone to the dealer and used the Idemitsu? The first 15,000 or 3 oil changes I did at the dealer, but based on the oil analysis I do after every oil change, it looked like the dealer was using a higher-weight (thicker) oil. The oil analysis proved it. The service manager there ignored me and asked me to leave. (long story if anyone wants to hear it)

I went to another dealer for the oil consumption test. The Subaru oil consumption test is simply the dealer does an oil change and verifies the oil level is even with the full mark on the stick. They have you come back in 1200 miles (or as close as possible to 1200) and the check the level on the stick. That's it. No magic.

I didn't need a dealer to tell me what I burn. I check my oil on level ground in a garage, with a cold engine sitting overnight every time. For the last 50,000 miles (I have 66K now) I burn about 6/10ths of a qt every 1000-1200 miles. Or about 1/2Qt every 1200 miles, roughly speaking.

The Subaru "SPEC" is if you exceed 1 qt in 1200 miles, the dealer informs Subaru and their Subaru dealer service rep discusses a replacement/overhaul to replace only the oil control rings.

 

Again, no magic with the consumption test. If I wanted to suck out and/or drain any oil right before bringing the car back to the dealer at 1200 miles, I totally could have. The truth is, I don't want a dealer to rip apart my car right now.

Let's see what the consumption looks like at 90,000 miles...

 

Or have you used better oil? What would you consider better?

For those who aren't having oil consumption issues, what oil are you using?

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If the Subaru spec permits over three quarts of additional oil per 6000 mile oil changes as normal, geez then why change your oil. Its getting to the point that all you need to change is the filter. (sarcasm). And to the above comment, my service manager told me if my car fails its next oil consumption test Subaru will replace the entire short block, not just the rings. As to some comments about driving styles causing excessive oil use, our car is driven non abusively, no mountains, no jack rabbit starts, and one passenger. As to oil type, all changes were done at the dealer. Does anyone know if all dealers use the same type of oil?
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From what I gather over 2 years here, the OB forum, and the Forester forum, Subaru spec actually is 1 quart per 3600 miles. An older TSB called for ring replacement when out of spec, but the measure was often unsuccessful. Newer TSB call for short block replacement. I don't think many dealers like to perform either measure under warranty, so there may be some spin and shenanigans dealing with customers which varies among individual dealers.
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uhhh... nope. none of my previous vehicles have ever burned oil. Even after 200k miles. While I understand that a small amount of oil burn is ok, this is outrageous.

 

Every time a piston travels up into a cylinder it coats the cylinder bore with oil, the oil left on the cylinder wall is burnt off (or consumed) every time the fuel in the cylinder is ignited. So yes, all engines consume oil.

 

Industry Standard? Consumer Reports and many other outlets beg to differ:

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm

 

There's also a large number of class action lawsuits that Subaru is losing against, so claiming that it's an industry standard actually isn't. If it truly was an industry standard, there would be a majority of vehicles consuming this much oil. Currently it's about 2%, so I'd hardly classify that as an industry standard.

 

In addition, if this was "normal" I should have been told that when I bought the car I'd have to not only fill it with gas, but oil. Never a mention, even when I asked.

 

Industry standard. See page 13; https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.abss.k12.nc.us/cms/lib02/NC01001905/Centricity/Domain/2007/Engine%2520Repair%2520Study%2520Guide.pdf&q=subaru%20oil%20consumption%20worksheet&ved=0ahUKEwi3gJzEltjLAhXRPB4KHbcuCkgQFgg1MAg&usg=AFQjCNFAPl2lCnIgTMrwroXkEevYpabdXg&sig2=VOXqNY9VeRqbuC3BYuZ9mg

 

If you open you mind, you'll see that almost all manufacturers, not just Subaru, are the subject of oil consumption class action lawsuits all due to the same factors, lower weight oils due to CAFE requirements, overzealous lawyers, uneducated customers and a sprinkling of actual issues.

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From what I gather over 2 years here, the OB forum, and the Forester forum, Subaru spec actually is 1 quart per 3600 miles. An older TSB called for ring replacement when out of spec, but the measure was often unsuccessful. Newer TSB call for short block replacement. I don't think many dealers like to perform either measure under warranty, so there may be some spin and shenanigans dealing with customers which varies among individual dealers.

 

Here is the wording copied from the Subaru Oil Consumption worksheet; "If there is oil consumption of 1/3 of a quart (10.7 oz in 1200 miles) or more observed and calculated as part of this test, proceed with the repairs listed in the applicable bulletin."

 

And for those that don't understand how manufacturer warranties work, warranties don't cost the dealership a dime. S.O.A. pays dealerships parts and labor to perform warranty repairs. So there really isn't any reason to "spin" or get out of doing a legitimate warranty repair. I doubt that S.O.A.'s checks bounce. So there is no reason for a dealer to perform legitimate repairs.

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From what I understand, 1/3qt in 1200 miles only applies to the following vehicles, as part of TSB # 02-157-14R:

2011-2014 Forester (with 2.5-liter engines)

2013-2014 Legacy (with 2.5-liter engines)

2013-2014 Outback (with 2.5-liter engines)

2012-2013 Impreza (with 2.0-liter engines)

2013 XV Crosstrek (with 2.0-liter engines)

 

 

I think if your consumption is less than what the owners manual states, 1qt every 1200 miles, you're sol.

 

"Under these or similar conditions, you

should check your oil at least every 2nd

fuel fill-up and change your engine oil

more frequently. If your oil consumption

rate is greater than 1 quart every 1,200

miles or 1 liter every 2,000 kilometers,

contact your SUBARU dealer who may

perform a test under controlled conditions"

 

As far as warranty work goes, from what I understand it is not the same as regular dealer service. Either the technicians get paid less money for warranty work, or the amount of hours for the job is less than it really should be. I think they get paid less for warranty work, not positive though. I'd be interested to hear from an actual subaru dealer technician.

Edited by apexi
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Every time a piston travels up into a cylinder it coats the cylinder bore with oil, the oil left on the cylinder wall is burnt off (or consumed) every time the fuel in the cylinder is ignited. So yes, all engines consume oil.

 

Industry standard. See page 13; https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.abss.k12.nc.us/cms/lib02/NC01001905/Centricity/Domain/2007/Engine%2520Repair%2520Study%2520Guide.pdf&q=subaru%20oil%20consumption%20worksheet&ved=0ahUKEwi3gJzEltjLAhXRPB4KHbcuCkgQFgg1MAg&usg=AFQjCNFAPl2lCnIgTMrwroXkEevYpabdXg&sig2=VOXqNY9VeRqbuC3BYuZ9mg

 

If you open you mind, you'll see that almost all manufacturers, not just Subaru, are the subject of oil consumption class action lawsuits all due to the same factors, lower weight oils due to CAFE requirements, overzealous lawyers, uneducated customers and a sprinkling of actual issues.

 

1) I already said that small amounts of consumption is acceptable, 1/3 of a quart in 1200 miles is not. With regards to my last 9 vehicles (Toyota: 1986 Camry, 1989 Van - Oldsmobile: 1985 Cutlass Ciera - Hondas: 1986 Civic, 1991 Civic, 1999 Civic Si, 2000 Civic EX, 2002 Honda Odyssey, 2003 Honda Pilot) not ONE burned ANY oil significant enough for me to even notice a slight movement on the oil dipstick. So no it's NOT normal

 

 

2) Please do not forward to me some document from "todaysclass.com" with absolutely no references in the document at all and tell me it's an industry standard. If you open you eyes and read what industry standard means, you'll understand that document isn't it. Nevertheless, the document doesn't state what you think it states because you didn't read it right.....

 

3) ...for your own clarification, the document on page 13 actually states: "Most vehicle manufacturers define “excessive oil consumption” as consuming or using a US quart or more of engine oil in 1,000 miles or less of vehicle operation. Lesser rates of oil consumption are considered normal operation in almost every case."

- First, they made NO reference to their comment of "most vehicle manufacturers", so that's an opinion

- Second, it says that vehicle manufacturers define excessive oil consumption as such but in the next sentence it actually states "LESSER RATES of oil consumption are considered normal operation in almost every case" This actually negates the first sentence, but because they didn't want to define what "lesser rates" are, we do not have an "industry standard"

- Third, not all motor companies are under class action lawsuits for this and even if they were, they would be selective in their models and years. None of my previous vehicle manuals ever stated in them that burning 1 quart of oil is normal in 1200 miles.

 

In fact, I actually got a kick out of Subaru's manual for the 2015 Legacy. How ridiculous is it for them to classify just about *every* driving condition as normal for burning oil, as if to say these are the *only* conditions:

 

Engine oil consumption

Some engine oil will be consumed while driving. Under the following conditions, oil consumption can be increased and thus require refilling between maintenance intervals:

. When the engine is new and within the break-in period

. When the engine oil is of lower quality

. When the incorrect oil viscosity is used

. When engine braking is employed

. When the engine is operated at high engine speeds

. When the engine is operated under heavy loads

. When towing a trailer

. When the engine idles for long periods of time

. When the vehicle is operated in stop and go and/or heavy traffic situations

. When the vehicle is used under severe thermal conditions

. When the vehicle accelerates and decelerates frequently

Under these or similar conditions, you should check your oil at least every 2nd fuel fill-up and change your engine oil more frequently. If your oil consumption rate is greater than 1 quart every 1,200 miles or 1 liter every 2,000 kilometers, contact your SUBARU dealer who may perform a test under controlled conditions.

 

Under these or similar conditions? Seriously Subaru, what *other* conditions are there? You should just come out and say "our engines burn oil" PERIOD

 

And just so you know it's Subaru LAWYERS that make them put this in their manuals so they can use it in court and say that it was considered "normal" conditions for this to happen. This isn't normal, this is to keep them from further lawsuits.

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As far as warranty work goes, from what I understand it is not the same as regular dealer service. Either the technicians get paid less money for warranty work, or the amount of hours for the job is less than it really should be. I think they get paid less for warranty work, not positive though. I'd be interested to hear from an actual subaru dealer technician.

 

I've heard this similar comment from a Subaru tech as well. I haven't been able to verify it though.

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I've heard this similar comment from a Subaru tech as well. I haven't been able to verify it though.

 

Warranty time cuts time on every service, operation, diagnosis, replacement, and job for every car, every time by as much as 60%. Its ridiculous.

 

Customer paid work is where the money is. Better yet customer paid service work is where the money is. We could get into a huge discussion on flat rate warranty time and how the flat rate system works but yeah in a nut shell, warranty sucks. We have to work even harder to prove/document everything, perform extra unnecessary testing so the warranty claims department isn't on our back and we generally don't get paid anything for diagnosis. And by that I mean if we cant duplicate the concern we get paid absolutely nothing and can spend hours on it.

 

Im ranting but yes its nothing new. Every dealer from every manufacture works like this generally. There are variations but we have to take the bad with the good.

 

How do I know? Flat rate Audi dealership tech here.

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Difference between Subaru and Audi though is for certain cars (09-11ish A4, A5, Q5) with the 2.0TSI engine, there is a class action warranty extension for oil consumption.

 

It is expiring in a few months but in a nut shell what happens is the customer complains the oil light is on or they have been adding oil (usually its like 1-2 quarts per 1k) And we do an oil consumption test. Audis have pretty accurate oil level sensors built into them so we can take measurements. Sometimes they want a weighed measurement but generally its a comparison for levels. So we get the car in and do whats called a phase 1. Top off the oil, run the oil consumption test plan with the scan tool and take a measurement. There is no dipstick on these cars so we take an actual digital measurement in mm.

 

Take that number, tell the customer to drive like 700 miles, come back, take another measurement and compare the two. Send those numbers to Audi and they tell us what to do. If all the testing was done correctly (the scan tool can tell and report if all requirements were met) it almost always ends with piston and ring replacement or an engine if the internals are found worn upon disassembly.

 

Yep, when we get an oil burner, we replace pistons and rings under warranty free of charge for the customer if Audi allows which is like 90% of the time.

 

For those who are curious, it pays 19-21 hours flat rate to do pistons and rings on an A4. And we have guys who can do it in 8 hours, no lie. Car comes in at 7:30 am and drives out with new pistons at 4 with a lunch break.

 

And yes. It fixes the problem. Once the pistons are done, they never come back with oil problems.

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I think if your consumption is less than what the owners manual states, 1qt every 1200 miles, you're sol.

 

 

Well, you and I both know that statement is not entirely accurate. Subaru is busy replacing short blocks in vehicles that consumed less than what the relevant owner's manuals stated (the 1 quart per 1200 miles).

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Yes you're right, I suppose there is always a chance and subaru could make an exception.

 

I'm a by the book kind of guy though, so I wouldn't get my hopes up if my consumption was less than what subaru says.

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I have a 2013 2.5. Can someone attached or direct me to the link for this TSB # 02-157-14R: ? My car falls into the class action lawsuit, even by VIN#. But if the TSB states 1/3 Q per 1200miles or greater, than I qualify.

The lawsuit states that Subaru will be extending the oil consumption warranty to 8 years or 100,000 miles, which would be great for me, as I have 67K right now on my 2013.

This would give me more time to figure out a game plan for my engine. I honestly don't want it ripped apart and put back together. Especially by a tech that is rushing to beat the clock.... I have overhauled dozens of diesels in my previous career. 600-800HP. I don't want a Tech rushing on my car.

But on the other hand, I don't want to see the negative side affects of heavy oil burning catching up with me, like any sensors going bad, catalyst, etc.... Not to mention any soot on the bumper....

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1) I already said that small amounts of consumption is acceptable, 1/3 of a quart in 1200 miles is not. With regards to my last 9 vehicles (Toyota: 1986 Camry, 1989 Van - Oldsmobile: 1985 Cutlass Ciera - Hondas: 1986 Civic, 1991 Civic, 1999 Civic Si, 2000 Civic EX, 2002 Honda Odyssey, 2003 Honda Pilot) not ONE burned ANY oil significant enough for me to even notice a slight movement on the oil dipstick. So no it's NOT normal.

 

All your past cars are older, none of them use 0w20 weight, synthetic oil and low tension oil rings to lower friction and improve fuel economy. The mid 90's and older cars also took longer to warm up to operating temperature, so they would have been running richer which in turn would have ended up in the oil, so while the dipstick would look like the oil hadn't moved, it would have had a higher percentage of gasoline in your oil.

 

Your oil usage really isn't that severe @ 1 quart per 5000 miles. Many of the people complaining about oil consumption are burning 2 to 3x times as much oil. Adding 1 quart per an oil change interval is below my threshold for being upset about the engine burning oil. Yes, ideally I wouldn't want to add oil. I keep my car long term, the cars I have owned that I had to add a quart of oil, never caused me any problems. The one car I had that burned 1qt of oil at 1500 miles when I first owned it, eventually became every 500 miles and I had to replace that motor.

 

My co worker just had his newer Honda Accord engine replaced at 50k miles replaced due to oil burning issue of 1 quart per 1000 miles. So Honda's that you have previously owned are not immune to this issue, either.

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Manufacturer (Warranty) labor times are different than Independent Shop (Flat Rate) labor times. Why you ask? Because the dealership technician generally has the tools and experience to do the work better and faster than someone who normally does not work on a particular car as well as having the parts and materials on hand to not cause delays. The labor times are not always less for warranty work, sometimes they are more, sometimes they are the same. Regardless, if a technician is sitting with no work to do they are not making money, doing warranty work is better than doing nothing, yes?

 

Labor rates (the amount paid per hour of labor) can differ depending on the shop / warranty agreement with the manufacturer.

 

I've been driving for over 30 year and have owned Chevy's, Isuzu's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's, Kia's, VW's, Dodge's and lots of Subaru's and everyone one of them has been low at one time or another between oil changes. Some consumption is normal, and nobody should be freaking out over consumption during the break-in period. Let a professional check your vehicle and see if you have an actual problem. In this day of over-information it seems everyone that reads something on the internet gets a case of instant hypochondria about what they read.

 

IMHO Subaru is not out to screw anyone and if your dealer is being dishonest there are plenty of other dealers around that would be glad to take their business.

 

Of course these are just the ramblings of someone whose been in the auto service industry for over 20 years.

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I have a 2013 2.5. Can someone attached or direct me to the link for this TSB # 02-157-14R: ? My car falls into the class action lawsuit, even by VIN#. But if the TSB states 1/3 Q per 1200miles or greater, than I qualify.

The lawsuit states that Subaru will be extending the oil consumption warranty to 8 years or 100,000 miles, which would be great for me, as I have 67K right now on my 2013.

This would give me more time to figure out a game plan for my engine. I honestly don't want it ripped apart and put back together. Especially by a tech that is rushing to beat the clock.... I have overhauled dozens of diesels in my previous career. 600-800HP. I don't want a Tech rushing on my car.

But on the other hand, I don't want to see the negative side affects of heavy oil burning catching up with me, like any sensors going bad, catalyst, etc.... Not to mention any soot on the bumper....

 

 

This doesn't look like other Subaru TSB's I'm use to seeing, but I think this might be it still.

 

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/attachments/gen-4-2010-2014/138489d1422541335-oil-consumption-2013-2-5-tsb-02-157-14r-low-res.pdf

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All your past cars are older, none of them use 0w20 weight, synthetic oil and low tension oil rings to lower friction and improve fuel economy. The mid 90's and older cars also took longer to warm up to operating temperature, so they would have been running richer which in turn would have ended up in the oil, so while the dipstick would look like the oil hadn't moved, it would have had a higher percentage of gasoline in your oil.

 

point taken on my older vehicles, however, I've not heard of higher percentages of gasoline in engine oil keeping the levels high. Please source this information.

 

Keeping true to the argument, however, please explain why my wife's 2015 Outback isn't burning any oil at all - and she's at 30k miles? Also explain to me the remaining 80% of subaru owners who aren't having this issue? (source: consumer reports) Also explain why the service technician at a Subaru dealership I visited said that every small block they've swapped out has not exhibited any oil consumption any more?

 

Your oil usage really isn't that severe @ 1 quart per 5000 miles.

 

My vehicle burned through more than 1 quart at 5000 miles. At 5,000 miles when my oil light came on, there was hardly any oil showing on the dipstick. That's beyond 1 quart and again Consumer Reports has stated that having to add oil *between* oil changes is not normal. Why do they know this is not normal? Because they test EVERY car in the industry and it's not normal.

 

 

My co worker just had his newer Honda Accord engine replaced at 50k miles replaced due to oil burning issue of 1 quart per 1000 miles. So Honda's that you have previously owned are not immune to this issue, either.

 

You're again missing the point but pointing out my anomaly - which is my argument. I'm not saying that vehicles are immune to manufacturing defects, what I am saying is that Subaru clamoring that burning 1 quart in 1200 miles is bogus - it's NOT normal and even your friend's Honda is validity to that truth since they changed the engine. There's no other owner's manual I've had that the vehicle manufacturer had to state such absurd numbers.

 

I seriously don't understand why there's so many people actually defending the absurdity of Subaru on these boards. Are you guys employees or have stock in the company or something? :confused:

 

 

For whatever it's worth, I just went out and purchased Amsoil and will try that and see if there's similar oil burning issues. If there is, my next step is to go to another dealer and do the test again, but this time I want the oil line to start at the top dot when the engine is dead cold - not overfilled by 1.5 quarts by some smart aleck dealer that doesn't want to deal with this issue.

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Did I read your comment right, your car lost a little over a quart of oil during it's first 5000 miles?

 

my apologies for not writing it clear enough in my last post. My car was 5k miles through it's 6k mile oil change interval. I had less than 15k miles on my car when it occurred. It burned well over 1 quart of oil. The dealer always overfills my oil reservoir, and when the light came on, there was the smallest drop registering on the bottom of my dipstick when we pulled it out. (way below the low dot)

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  • 6 months later...
So I guess Subaru didn't fix the problem even in the new generation legacy's. Yesterday my 2015 Legacy, with less than 20k miles, had the oil light come on and yes, there was hardly any oil on the dipstick. I immediately took it to the dealer and they told me that they would like to do an oil consumption test. I asked them what would happen if they found it to be an issue and they said they have to change the short block of the engine. (basically rebuild it)

 

My car has less than 20k miles and my engine has to be rebuilt?? Seriously Subaru! I'm grateful that Subaru is willing to warrantee this, but come on - this is a BRAND NEW CAR with less than 20k miles. I did not pay $30k+ to have an engine reconstructed on a new car! And for what it's worth the oil consumption test is for only 1200 miles, NOT the 6k mile change (synthetic). I highly doubt the oil will move much at 1200 miles, but we'll see. (One thing to note also, I found out Subaru lowered the mileage for Synthetic oil changes in 2015 - they reduced the interval from 7,500 miles to 6,000 miles - most likely so people don't notice it's burning oil!)

 

Consumer Reports also lists Subaru engines as one of the worst for burning oil and has stated that this is NOT normal.

 

Subaru in 2015 was just dropped from JD Power completely. My guess is that this oil issue is to blame. This is not what I expected from a new car. My second subaru and most likely it will be my last until I see a good 10 year run from Subaru with no more oil burning or gasket issues.

 

Very upset subaru!

 

 

so this post was published in August. Did u solve the problem now? Did u check any official resources about this like manuals from the manufacturer (http://www.subaru.com/owners/vehicle-resources.html) or some sort of tables that show what oil type for which engine you should use. Also as far as I know you may keep the car in good condition by filling 4.2 liters of Synthetic 5w30 oil every 7500 miles. read more

I’m about to buy a lancer 2012 with over 120k miles. I’m concerned about oil consumption as well as other hidden issues there might be there… anyone is willing to share their secrets? :))

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