BTSSM says I have knock

[Soarin]

So, I just got BTSSM for my 06 LGT with 5EAT and I'm getting a lot of this. I have no real clue what might be triggering knock. No CEL or codes or anything weird. Car runs superb. Just 34 knocks in the past 36 minutes total of running around town and the app keeps reminding me.

The only mods on the engine are a GrimmSpeed TMIC, Turbosmart BPV, and an AEM DryFlow filter.

 

I love the app, but this is kinda freaking me out. I just had the original turbo replaced with a brand new VF40 and the engine was clean and thoroughly cleaned out during turbo replacement. I also went on a trip to Sacramento and back to Reno with zero issues and only use Shell V Power.

 

KNOCK DETECTED at 2016-03-05 06:18:31 PM

AFR: 14.5

Boost (psi): 1.20

Coolant (degF): 183

FKC (deg): -2.11

FLKC (deg): -0.20

Injector PW (ms): 5.9

Knocks: 19

Load (g/rev): 0.96

MAF (g/s): 36.15

RPM: 2252

Speed (mph): 39.1

Throttle plate (%): 21.2

Timing (deg): 35.0

[Soarin]

Just went for a drive to get sushi burritos and this is the readout.

[Soarin]

Not to bump for attention, just posting for more information.

[ragman]

You want to watch and see if it is knocking under WOT and at what RPM?

[Soarin]

I've revved it to 5000 RPM and held it there and no knock readings. It looks like it's happening at lower speeds and RPMs.

I've had people tell me it's a fuel issue and being in Reno, Nevada, I can't get 93 octane and the fuel has an up to 10% ethanol blend. And this is while only getting Shell V Power.

[Phate]

I've revved it to 5000 RPM and held it there and no knock readings. It looks like it's happening at lower speeds and RPMs.

I've had people tell me it's a fuel issue and being in Reno, Nevada, I can't get 93 octane and the fuel has an up to 10% ethanol blend. And this is while only getting Shell V Power.

 

I have similar super-low-load knock issues, usually when lifting off the throttle puttering around town that can result in scary knock counts if you don't notice the fact that it never knocks above 10% throttle, and it doesn't in boost.

 

Does your tend to do it when applying additional throttle, when coming off the throttle, or does it ping on you midway through the pull?

[Soarin]

I'm back with more information and a new report on the 10 minute drive home in the night rain.

It's looking better and better. Less knocks and no warnings.

No knocking under WOT.

When it did ping for knock it was at lower pulls.

Maybe I realy did get a bad batch of gas in Sacramento last weekend.

[battelready]

Perhaps it happens when shifting. Thats very common for the 5EAT. But if you may have gotten a bad batch, id lay off the boost and retard the timing.

[Perscitus]

Load is below 1.0 g/rev in all snapshots and examples screenshots

and you appear to be either out of or in very low boost when it registers.

Likely benign.

 

Whats your IAM look like? How about your LVs? Based on the latest screenshot where Fine Learned Knock Correction has a positive max value, your IAM must have dropped and the car started added timing in places. In part, the reason why youd see less knock now. KCA pulled globally.

 

See if it happens more often when in 4th or 5th gear at this low load.

 

Log IAM, misfires on each of the 4 cylinders, gear,

Fuel Learn/Correct #1 and #3, CL Target.

Total Timing, Learned Timing.

 

Chances are (like others suggested) that your Tip-In, Tip-Out Fueling, MAF scaling and Load Comp MP tables could use a bit of tweaking.

 

Get us an LV snapshot out of BtSsm.

[JmP6889928]

Next step colder plugs and run a can of Berryman B12 Chemtool through 1/2 tank of gas to make sure injectors are clean. Clean MAF and reset your ECM and then let it re-learn. Once you do this, drive it with rpm and boost all over the place and see what your averages are.

Most likely, it will average out and knock learning will be virtually non-existent. For peace of mind, send your latest oil to Blackstone Labs for UOA.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Soarin]

I'll be driving around today and burning off more gas in the tank. Perfect time to get the Berryman B12 Chemtool and I'll do that first. MAF is clean.

I'll get multiple LVs with the parameters suggested and post them.

[Soarin]

Bought the Berryman B21 and put in the half tank I have. I've been driving around for the past hour and so hanging out and helping a friend with errands and have gotten knock warnings.

Posts incoming. Also, no cylinder misfire.

 

 

KNOCK DETECTED at 2016-03-06 02:38:56 PM

AFR: 14.7

Battery (V): 14.1

Boost (psi): -2.60

Coolant (degF): 185

FKC (deg): -2.11

FLKC (deg): 0.00

IAM: 0.625

Injector PW (ms): 4.9

Intake (degF): 53

Knocks: 13

Load (g/rev): 0.74

MAF (g/s): 28.84

MAF (V): 2.34

Misfire cyl 1: 0

Misfire cyl 2: 0

Misfire cyl 3: 0

Misfire cyl 4: 0

O2 rear (V): 0.6

RPM: 2354

Speed (mph): 63.4

Throttle pedal (%): 11.4

Throttle plate (%): 18.4

Timing (deg): 38.5

 

 

KNOCK DETECTED at 2016-03-06 02:36:14 PM

AFR: 13.4

Battery (V): 14.0

Boost (psi): 4.40

Coolant (degF): 176

FKC (deg): -2.11

FLKC (deg): -0.40

IAM: 0.625

Injector PW (ms): 8.4

Intake (degF): 60

Knocks: 9

Load (g/rev): 1.32

MAF (g/s): 61.36

MAF (V): 2.96

Misfire cyl 1: 0

Misfire cyl 2: 0

Misfire cyl 3: 0

Misfire cyl 4: 0

O2 rear (V): 0.9

RPM: 2780

Speed (mph): 74.6

Throttle pedal (%): 22.4

Throttle plate (%): 30.2

Timing (deg): 28.5

 

 

KNOCK DETECTED at 2016-03-06 02:35:42 PM

AFR: 13.4

Battery (V): 13.9

Boost (psi): 3.50

Coolant (degF): 185

FKC (deg): -2.11

FLKC (deg): -0.54

IAM: 0.625

Injector PW (ms): 8.2

Intake (degF): 60

Knocks: 7

Load (g/rev): 1.26

MAF (g/s): 53.53

MAF (V): 2.82

Misfire cyl 1: 0

Misfire cyl 2: 0

Misfire cyl 3: 0

Misfire cyl 4: 0

O2 rear (V): 0.9

RPM: 2551

Speed (mph): 67.7

Throttle pedal (%): 22.4

Throttle plate (%): 30.2

Timing (deg): 30.0

[Soarin]

Here are the learned values. I want to really thank everyone for all of the help. This is a lot of data that I'm catching up to understanding.

[JmP6889928]

Do you know anyone else with the same car? You might swap the knock sensor and see if that makes a difference (WAYYY too expensive to just buy one for experimentation). Also make sure there is nothing else around the sensor that could be creating a knock like a loose pitch stop/bolt or intercooler bracket, etc. The knock sensors are extremely sensitive and pick up noises from a fair distance away.

 

One last thing and this is a long shot but it happened to my Chrysler Minivan-make sure that your flex plate isn't cracked. I had a ticking noise in my minivan that I couldn't identify-sounded like a bad tappet. I heard the noise through the bell housing with my stethoscope and it was a clicking/ticking noise. It was getting a bit more pronounced so I dropped the inspection shield and found that between the 6 holes in the flex plate, all were cracked except for one bridge. Luckily I found it or I would have been broken down with all kinds of horrendous noise. That kind of thing is the type of sound that the knock sensor can pick up on so look carefully around that general area and see if anything is loose or could be rattling.

 

Good luck.

[Soarin]

I'm going to try that because the numbers look in my favor. Something could be loose and I just can't find it. I have all sorts of rattles from a very stiff suspension and some rough roads. The car goes into the shop for regreasing the swaybars. So, they'll get told all of this too. The car is still running spectacular all day and responds well.

[Perscitus]

Thanks for above.

 

Are you tuned or running OEM ECU/TCU calibrations?

 

Fuel Learning ranges A-C appear off,especially Fuel Learn C.

All adding fuel so the ECU thinks the car is seeing more air and compensates by adding fuel to hit fueling targets. Under CL this is likely ok to keep you around stoich but under OL and especially WOT, you are likely running richer than target.

 

So your MAF is either dirty, not seated well and you have some leaks or your MAF scaling is off.... or a bit of all three.

 

IAM is at abour half of the optimal 1.0 value so the ECU entered rough correction at some point due to perceived knock (enoughKC and or increasing FLKC able a certain RPM and Load threshold).

 

Even with globally reduced IAM you have some negative learned timing in the timing table. 1.1g/rev and somewhere 2600-3200rpm. Not great but not great.

 

Subarus knock strategies will keep you safe, but do try to get this sorted, especially the MAF and knock sensor.

[Soarin]

Runing bone stock ECU. It's time to go back into the shop this week and hopefully it'll all get sorted out.

 

The thing is, if I hadn't gotten BTSSM then I would have never known. Well, at least I know and I have half of my tax return I know and where it's going.

[Phate]

Runing bone stock ECU. It's time to go back into the shop this week and hopefully it'll all get sorted out.

 

The thing is, if I hadn't gotten BTSSM then I would have never known. Well, at least I know and I have half of my tax return I know and where it's going.

 

Yeah, if your IAM is that low (.625), it's definitely not happy.

 

A few clean pulls should make that value go back up. You'll notice a difference when it adds the timing back in, the car will pull harder when it's getting all of its ignition timing.

[Soarin]

It's never gone past the .625 IAM number. It hasn't gone any lower and that's a plus.

I have a feeling this car needs a thorough look through and maybe even needs a tune if nothing is broken and the readings are correct.

[Phate]

It's never gone past the .625 IAM number. It hasn't gone any lower and that's a plus.

I have a feeling this car needs a thorough look through and maybe even needs a tune if nothing is broken and the readings are correct.

 

Probably not the best way to go, but you could reset the ECU? It should start at .750 after that, and will go back to 1.000 pretty quickly after that if it doesn't see anything wrong.

[Soarin]

Btssm has an ECU reset and I haven't tried that yet. I'll try that tomorrow.

[smmynjoroge]

Have similar low load (under 1.0) knock, RPM range has been under 2000 and in vacuum. FKC drop by -2.1. IAM holds at 1 with no FKLC at all. I highly suspect something loose in the engine bay or an issue with the wastegate

[xt2005bonbon]

I would not reset the ECU until you get your issues sorted out. You most likely have a fairly large vacuum leak or something, as your fuel trims are fairly large and positive (as perscitus pointed out).

 

You want your four fuel trims (a-d) in your LV to stay within +/-5%. Positive usually means a vacuum leak, while negative usually means a boost leak. So check for vacuum leak first and report.

[Soarin]

I have been trying to understand and sort this out for days. The car goes into the shop tomorrow and I'll tell them to look for vacuum and boost leaks. I've tightened everything post turbo and I'm still getting the LV posted in pic.

The things I have done are: new AEM DryFlow filter, thoroughly cleaned the MAF several times, tightened all hoses for boost, checked for boost and vacuum leaks, fresh Shell V Power, and a can of Berryman's B12. This has helped, but the warnings pop up. No misfire or codes to find.

IAM is up to 1.00 again and holding strong.

[Soarin]

I have no idea what's causing this.

Are there any sounds I should be listening for? This is the biggest mystery I've had and I seriously am thankful and appreciate the help cause I'm just learning to understand this.