AviMoore Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hey guys. I'm sure this has been talked about before and I know this is a fairly common problem. I bought a 2005 LGT with 138k miles from a small used car dealer as is. I knew about the turbo problems these cars have but I wasn't expecting it to be an issue this quickly. After looking at as much of the car as I could, I determined it was in really good condition for a car of this age. It was easy to see it was garage kept, stock, and really well maintained. It made no noises and drove absolutely perfect from what I could tell, so I went for it. Drove it for a couple days and I was in love with it more every time I drove it. Then on the 3 hour drive back up to college, I was in 5th gear in cruise control going about 70mph when I heard a weird wisping noise from the engine and soon after, a nasty rattling sound, so I pulled into a gas station and it was dead. I feared the worst, and it was true. The turbo blew and destroyed the engine completely. No warning lights, odd noises, or anything prior. Now I am heartbroken, in the hole 6k, and pretty pissed off as I literally bought the thing 3 days before. What do you guys suggest I do? Auction off the car? Part it out? Try and find a new engine? Any suggestions or advice is appreciated, I just feel so hopeless at this point. RIP new buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluesblues Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The car has a 6-speed swap done to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 First question. You were in 6th gear? an 05 only has 5 gears. If the car has a 6spd. You can probably sell that for $4k+ Second: do you want to spend 3k (at least rebuilding it)? Third: look into any of your states law that might help protect you. Some states have used car lemon laws that might help you. Fourth: did you turn the car on after the Turbo blew? Read through this thread for more of an idea what it takes and the hardships that go with rebuilding a Subaru when money is a concern. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/cenzos-lets-build-dd-racewagon-build-241023.html My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AviMoore Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 The car has a 6-speed swap done to it? Sorry, 5th gear, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AviMoore Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 First question. You were in 6th gear? an 05 only has 5 gears. If the car has a 6spd. You can probably sell that for $4k+ Second: do you want to spend 3k (at least rebuilding it)? Third: look into any of your states law that might help protect you. Some states have used car lemon laws that might help you. Fourth: did you turn the car on after the Turbo blew? Read through this thread for more of an idea what it takes and the hardships that go with rebuilding a Subaru when money is a concern. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/cenzos-lets-build-dd-racewagon-build-241023.html Sorry my bad, that was a typo. Its just the 5 speed. I understand it will likely cost at least 3k no matter what I do. I am currently looking into lemon law stuff, but the dealer has been really sympathetic for my situation and I'm friends with the family that owns it, so I'm pretty sure the dealer will help out in some way before I would resort to that. And actually, I did try to start it, stupidly. I was just so frustrated and pissed right after I shut it off that I didn't think about what I was doing. It only cranked over once or twice then it quit. Then I realized it was probably a really dumb move. What could this have done to the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-173358.html That about covers the damage you did. It cost me $5k to have someone rebuild my engine. My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJM Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Hello OB2 -- good link and thanks.. any more "creative" ideas - any thoughts on an engine from a wreck? - also the subies have very similar engines - for a 2005 Legacy GT - what are the compatible drop in replacements? So it seems a Legacy GT 05 to 09 would work - is that right?? So buying an 09 from a wreck with many fewer miles is a good idea? -- then are there any newer models that will work? Wrx / Sti 's etc--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The short block from a WRX/STI/Legacy GT are all the same. But, each engine has slightly different modifications that make it so it's not a drop in replacement. The drop in replacement for a 2005 Legacy GT is a 2005 or 2006 Legacy GT engine. The Legacy GT engines changes mid-way through. 08s+ (maybe even 2007?) have a VF46 turbo and an air pump instead of a cat in the unpipe and VF40 turbos) I don't know anything about the WRX engines besides that they come with a larger turbo (VF52 09+). STIs have a different intake manifold / turbo / etc. All those can be made to fit, but aren't true "drop in". Only 05-06s are (unsure about 07). You could get a 2008+ engine, but that would require custom tuning to get it to work right. Typically we don't recommend junk yard engines. How do you know it's in any better shape than your own? They aren't cheap and you will probably just be in the same position as before (just out thousands of $s) Max Capacity's rebuild formula: OEM new shortblock + resurface heads + replace all the oil/metal contaminated parts (oil cooler, oil pickup), etc. Is the most recommended. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/got-some-new-stuff-engine-r-r-184106.html Honestly, the biggest problem with creative ideas is that frequently in the short and long run they just end up costing a lot of extra money. However, there is some confirmation bias here. People come to this forum with problems, they don't come to say "I bought a junkyard engine and it has worked great for many many many miles." My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AviMoore Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thanks a lot for that info. I was considering looking at an STI or newer LGT engine but was worried about the tune as you said. How much of a pain in the arse do you think it would be to get that done, say for an STI engine? And then after thats done, would I still be able to use a Cobb Accessport using STI maps, or would it screw everything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thanks a lot for that info. I was considering looking at an STI or newer LGT engine but was worried about the tune as you said. How much of a pain in the arse do you think it would be to get that done, say for an STI engine? And then after thats done, would I still be able to use a Cobb Accessport using STI maps, or would it screw everything up. There is no difference between an STI shortblock and an LGT shortblock. So same pistons / rings / etc. People do STI swaps all the time. If that's the route you want to take there is a lot of money involved and off the shelf maps really are not the way to go....plus your ECU thinks you have an 2005 Legacy GT engine. I doubt (but don't know) that you can just flash a Cobb OTS STI map and trick it into thinking it's an STI. You aren't building an engine that's any stronger or more powerful just doing a straight STI swap though. Your goal right now should be to work with the dealer and see if they will take it back... to get it back up and running is at least $6k if you need to pay someone else to do the work. My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongrom Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Fresh built motor in classifieds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 If you bought this car from a dealer, I'm sure you can go after them with some sort of lemon law or something. And walk away from it and find another if you really want it. The exact same thing (well mine only lasted 2 days) happened to me. Except mine came from a shady private sale. I got screwed. I don't think you are. I'm well over $6.5k at this point and have another 1k to spend. I am going from stock to stage 2 and replacing almost everything, but if you plan to toss some upgrades in, expect at least a $6k bill. I'm also doing all the work myself. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondtster Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Honestly, the biggest problem with creative ideas is that frequently in the short and long run they just end up costing a lot of extra money. However, there is some confirmation bias here. People come to this forum with problems, they don't come to say "I bought a junkyard engine and it has worked great for many many many miles." I guess I am "that guy" then. I didn't come to the forum with problems and I have no problems using a used engine, provided it passes a reasonably thorough health check before I install it. My current car has had an EJ20Y swap for close to a year now, with plenty of miles on it to prove the engine is fine. I just got back from a 16 hour road trip actually... Is there risk involved with used engines? Sure. The question is, can you justify the difference in cost for the slightly greater peace of mind that comes with new parts? There are plenty of opportunities for component and mechanic induced failures with the commonly accepted "new shortblock and used heads" repairs that people like here that I see little discernible difference in risk between a good, low mile used engine vs. a new shortblock and used heads. Certainly not enough to justify the difference in cost. When messing with these cars the important key seems to be the ability to do all the work yourself. If you have to rely on a mechanic it will get expensive quickly in both labor and parts costs. I could swap two used motors for less than what the typical new shortblock route costs, provided I do the work. Just another point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJM Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yes - but the conventional approach is close to $5K... short block 1900 + 1700 labor _ 600 turbos - etc etc - vs getting 1500-2K for the car as is and taking a 4K loss......It does seem this was just a bad deal all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apexofthevortex Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'd agree and say your best bet is to go through the dealer and see what they can do for you. No point in spending 5-6k for a rebuild unless A: It's your last resort or B: You really want to do it and can afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondtster Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Talk to the car lot you bought the car from first. You might be surprised, they might be willing to make things right. On the other hand, they may not if you signed papers stating you bought it as-is with no warranty expressed or implied. This is a tough call no matter what. You likely paid fair market value for the car and now need to stick more money into it. You won't get your money out of it no matter what you do so you need to decide what to do. Personally, I think keeping it and fixing it is the best option since if you sell it either broken or fixed you'll take a bath and you'll buy another car that you know nothing about. At least you might know some of the history and maintenance with this one from here on out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightmonkeygt Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 That's a real bummer dude. Sorry to hear that. Unless the dealer is going to cover some or all of the cost of replacing the engine, expect to pay at least $4.5-5k. At least you don't have to suffer alone! We've all been through this misery before haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cBax Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Maine has a lemon law that still applies if you bought it as-is. If you signed an as-is contract, check to see if your state has something similar. '05 Outback XT www.facebook.com/baxleysspeedshop www.baxleysspeedshop.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holla Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Definitely talk to the dealer. The lgt I currently own blew the engine the day I took delivery, dealership replaced short block with a full rebuild. Second lgt also started knocking 2 days after purchase. Dealership refunded me in full and I gave them the car back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AviMoore Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thanks for your input everyone. As of right now I really don't wanna sell it, since I love the car already and I doubt I will find another this clean for a decent price. Currently working with the dealer and another Subaru dealership to locate a used complete engine or something. I know it is more risky than getting a fresh rebuild with a short block, but I don't have the skills or time to do the work myself being at college. Hopefully I can find something with low miles to at least give me some peace of mind it will be reliable, and hopefully the dealer will help me out. And I learned my lesson - no 3.5 hour drives on used cars without being properly inspected. I didn't even get a chance to take a look at the banjo bolt filter or anything after I bought it before leaving. That's the worst feeling when I know I probably could have done something simple but didn't, now I'm paying the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AviMoore Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 Okay so I have my first option. Apparently I can get a new engine (not exactly sure what is meant by that yet) for $3800 + $800 labor at a subie dealership with a 100k mile warranty. Its expensive no doubt, but a new engine with a warranty sounds nice. I also suppose that means no mods... Not sure on the details yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holla Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 So you need to pay out of pocket to fix it? What state did you buy the car in? I'd read all the fine print in the contract before I gave them another cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtea Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thats pretty damn good deal. Id its legit new take it. If nothing goes kablooey in 18 months mod away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJM Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The trick is - the BrokenBoxer engines are essentially NEW and have a 1 year (unlimited mileage-- my error) warranty... yes 5K all in- the UC-Dealer wants us to bring it to his mechanic, but will not even give a ballpark estimate for the work - or even what they will do- so I worry they will just try to flush the engine, slap on a shit turbo - and we have an engine, car runs -- but for how long - argh - this sucks - Talked to the Subaru Dealer sales guys about the PA laws - really no options from a legal standpoint. ( They as a dealership offer a 3 day policy - if you are not happy - but that is not part of the state laws.) Maybe do a "gofundme" -- Haha -- if a day trader that looses his savings on a short sale - why cant we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 What's the cost of a long block from Heuberger http://legacygt.com/index.php?page=vendors& call them and see what they car do with shipping, have a local shop install it and leave the banjo filters out. replace the oil cooler too. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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