Alligaeta Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 About a month ago I bought a 2005 LGT wagon with 130,000 miles on it and I have been loving it so far. Before buying the car I had been doing a bunch of research and reading everything I could find on this forum. I realized that I needed to do some "preventative maintenance" modifications right away. I took it into HMS in Sherwood about a week ago for a pretune/purchase inspection. They said the car is in great shape and has been well taken care of. Reading on the forum and getting advice from some members I know that I should replace the stock UP, have the car retuned, and it would be smart to install the killer B oil pickup and the bullet proof TMIC mod as well. I have a little over $1,000 to spend on mods and really want to make sure I spend wisely, I definitely don't have the time and money to do all of these things at once. What I would like is some advice as to how to go about this. I'm not looking to get my car producing a ton of power at the moment, I just want to get it to a place where I don't have to worry (as much) about the turbo exploding and destroying the engine. My plan was to go stage 1 and buy an AP from COBB and get a catless up installed. The car unfortunately came with an SPT intake so I don't have the option of leaving in the stock intake box. That means I'll need to buy the COBB intake with the AP. Surgeline quoted me right around $500 to install a catless UP. I know that the 07+ STI UPs are catless but I haven't been able to find one so far; either way I'll have to pay labor to have an UP installed. Is this a good strategy? Or should I skip the AP and just get a Dyno tune with the catless UP? I'm open to any advice or insults you're willing to give. I've been hesitant to post this because I know the reaction noobs get for asking questions that have already been answered 50,000 times. I've researched this forum a ton though and read every thread I can find on these topics, I'm not a mechanic though and only have a basic knowledge of this car so I really just want as much advice as I can get before putting another $1,000+ into it. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Is it currently on the stock tune? If so... there's probably no need to BP the TMIC. If it has held this long, it's probably fine, unless you intend to increase power levels in the near future. If you intend to add a downpipe before your tune, then it's a good idea to reinforce it. Replacing the UP is a good idea. Just look for anything catless, for the sake of long-term reliability. It sounds like you've done your research, which is great... but I have another idea. I got to stage 2 with way less than $1,000, by buying used parts and installing myself. Get an up pipe (<$150), a downpipe ($300-ish), a vag-com cable (cheap) and an e-tune ($150). You'll have plenty of money left over for your oil pickup, or to improve handling with a RSB and end links, or bushings, or whatever else. This was my approach, although I was able to skip the up pipe because I have a '09. If you don't intend to change tunes on a regular basis, I don't see the allure of dropping a bunch of coin on an AccessPort, unless you can pick up a used one cheap. I haven't touched my tune since going to stage 3 sometime early last year. TL;DR - DIY. You can do it. Good job reading the forums. Now put your hands on the car & get it done. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alligaeta Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Is it currently on the stock tune? If so... there's probably no need to BP the TMIC. If it has held this long, it's probably fine, unless you intend to increase power levels in the near future. If you intend to add a downpipe before your tune, then it's a good idea to reinforce it. Replacing the UP is a good idea. Just look for anything catless, for the sake of long-term reliability. It sounds like you've done your research, which is great... but I have another idea. I got to stage 2 with way less than $1,000, by buying used parts and installing myself. Get an up pipe (<$150), a downpipe ($300-ish), a vag-com cable (cheap) and an e-tune ($150). You'll have plenty of money left over for your oil pickup, or to improve handling with a RSB and end links, or bushings, or whatever else. This was my approach, although I was able to skip the up pipe because I have a '09. If you don't intend to change tunes on a regular basis, I don't see the allure of dropping a bunch of coin on an AccessPort, unless you can pick up a used one cheap. I haven't touched my tune since going to stage 3 sometime early last year. TL;DR - DIY. You can do it. Good job reading the forums. Now put your hands on the car & get it done. The car is completely stock, other than the spt intake. I definitely won't be changing tunes often, if at all. Reliability is always going to be higher on my list than performance. My previous car was a '93 Legacy wagon so this thing still feels like a rocket to me and I'm content with keeping it near to where it's at performance wise. That said, I wouldn't mind if it was a bit faster and handled better. What's most appealing to me about the AP is the ability to switch to economy mode when I want and get better fuel economy. I definitely like the idea of doing these mods myself and saving money, I just don't know if I'll have the time or ability to do them. I don't have much for tools, though I could probably borrow some from friends, and my future in laws have a giant shop/garage I could work in.... It's definitely a strategy to consider. I think a lot of my dilemma is with the car having the amount of miles it has I feel the need to get all these things done asap ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslaya Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 $500 for an uppipe install is insane. i was quoted $375 for an uppipe and downpipe install. I also got my uppipe from the forum here for $75 What i ended up doing is going on a local subaru forum and asked if anyone could help me do the install. i had a very nice guy offer his time and his lift and we got it done rather quickly. im sure you can find someone in your area to help out. as for the SPT intake, i would see if you can find someone who wants to trade for their stock box, or find a partout that has it for sale. it will be cheaper to do and will work better than an aftermarket system. the stock airbox starts to be a bottleneck around 350hp I got a used accessport for $350 over on NASIOC, but in the interest of getting better performance i would see if someone in the area has a tatrix or vagocm cable you can borrow and get a e-tune from someone like cryo. here is what I did and the cost for it all: uppipe- $75 Downpipe - $270 Catback - $200 (got it on clearance) AP v2 - $350 LWCP - $100 total: $995 to get me to stage 2 + a few extras. you just got to look around. i know for me over in CT i have www.ctsubie.com which is where i found my guy to help out, see if there is a site for OR or even a facebook group edit: also dont forget the banjo bolts! edit 2: for you you could do something like Trade for stock airbox - $0 uppipe: ~100 e-tune - $175 Total: $275 giving you plenty of room for fun mods like going stg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJr Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Post a WTB ad on Nasioc for a STI UP it shouldn't take long! + everything else Deltanu said! Hopefully the TB has been done and the Banjo filter to the Turbo has been removed. GL and welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviman Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've been hesitant to post this because I know the reaction noobs get for asking questions that have already been answered 50,000 times. I wish forums didn't have to be like this. Unfortunately this will probably be the end of this forum, people stop joining and asking questions because select people choose to be very rude and others let them. I'd vote dyno tune for reliability, and certainly getting off of the stock tune. The stock tune is notorious for running lean and having too much timing, potentially leading to knock and a cracked ringland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Good stuff here. Economy isn't a mode on the AP, it's an entirely different map. Its not a clickable switch or selectable option; you have to stop the car, get out, connect the green test connectors, flash the economy map, (wait for it, not a fast thing) and then start the car and wait for it to relearn the new params... So, yes, it's an option, just don't expect it to be convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alligaeta Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Thanks guys a bunch guys, I'm really glad I asked. There was no way I was spending $500 to get an uppipe installed so I'm going to try to find a different shop or just do it myself. From what I've read the UP is a pain but other than that I'm pretty confident I can do most of the other installs myself. Spending around $4-500 for everything I need and more definitely sounds way better than dropping the $1,000+ I thought was necessary ha. As far as the forum goes, that's pretty typical of any forum I've been on. This summer I got really into fixed gear bikes and the forums I went on were the same way. Almost every day there were multiple "What bike should I buy??" posts. It's a question that could have been thoroughly answered by one search of the forum and even I, the noob, started to get annoyed with them after a couple months of frequenting the forum ha. This forum is actually very helpful and people are a lot more friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alligaeta Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Good stuff here. Economy isn't a mode on the AP, it's an entirely different map. Its not a clickable switch or selectable option; you have to stop the car, get out, connect the green test connectors, flash the economy map, (wait for it, not a fast thing) and then start the car and wait for it to relearn the new params... So, yes, it's an option, just don't expect it to be convenient. Ah well that certainly helps me make my decision. For some reason I thought it was something you could just switch to with the click of a button... I think it was those COBB YouTube videos I watched with the overly enthusiastic guy ha. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslaya Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Thanks guys a bunch guys, I'm really glad I asked. There was no way I was spending $500 to get an uppipe installed so I'm going to try to find a different shop or just do it myself. From what I've read the UP is a pain but other than that I'm pretty confident I can do most of the other installs myself. Spending around $4-500 for everything I need and more definitely sounds way better than dropping the $1,000+ I thought was necessary ha. As far as the forum goes, that's pretty typical of any forum I've been on. This summer I got really into fixed gear bikes and the forums I went on were the same way. Almost every day there were multiple "What bike should I buy??" posts. It's a question that could have been thoroughly answered by one search of the forum and even I, the noob, started to get annoyed with them after a couple months of frequenting the forum ha. This forum is actually very helpful and people are a lot more friendly. my experience with installing the uppipe was about 3 hours on a lift in a well equipped shop working with a mechanic who owns and works on subarus. We just did it one friday night, hung out, worked on the car, and had a good time. it didnt even seem like it took that long. at the end i bought him some food for his time and then went on our merry ways. it really wasnt hard at all and i feel its worth the time to find someone who can help me and make a new friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Another thing to consider - I don't know what the shop looked at in the inspection. But it might be worth it to hold onto the $1000 for awhile and make sure that you have to fix anything that needs fixing. Minus the Cat - that seems pretty important to get out of there. Has all the routine maintenance been done? 105k and 120k mile service? Was the downpipe pulled and the turbo checked for shaft play? My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alligaeta Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 my experience with installing the uppipe was about 3 hours on a lift in a well equipped shop working with a mechanic who owns and works on subarus. We just did it one friday night, hung out, worked on the car, and had a good time. it didnt even seem like it took that long. at the end i bought him some food for his time and then went on our merry ways. it really wasnt hard at all and i feel its worth the time to find someone who can help me and make a new friend That's definitely the ideal situation. As of now it would be just me laying under my car on jack stands using borrowed tools ha. Another thing to consider - I don't know what the shop looked at in the inspection. But it might be worth it to hold onto the $1000 for awhile and make sure that you have to fix anything that needs fixing. Minus the Cat - that seems pretty important to get out of there. Has all the routine maintenance been done? 105k and 120k mile service? Was the downpipe pulled and the turbo checked for shaft play? That's definitely in the back of my mind. HMS said they could tell the car had been well maintained but obviously there's only so much you can find out by just giving the car a once over. Surgeline charges $180 to check the turbo and engine health so that's probably something I should do as well before I start dumping money into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesuby Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Allow me to ask if a retune is necessary after replacing the uppipe with an uncatted version. From what I've read, the turbo will spool up quicker after the catalyst restriction is removed. Is there really any benefit to replacing the downpipe? I know that improvements to the exhaust side are generally worth about 1/10th what you can get by improving the intake breathing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Allow me to ask if a retune is necessary after replacing the uppipe with an uncatted version. From what I've read, the turbo will spool up quicker after the catalyst restriction is removed. Is there really any benefit to replacing the downpipe? I know that improvements to the exhaust side are generally worth about 1/10th what you can get by improving the intake breathing. Yes a retune is needed. I think with the turbo spooling sooner the fueling doesn't hit at the right time...I think. Replacing the downpipe is only if you want more power. I am not sure where the 1/10th comes from...but on these cars a huge improvement can be made by replacing the stock downpipe. That's definitely the ideal situation. As of now it would be just me laying under my car on jack stands using borrowed tools ha. That's definitely in the back of my mind. HMS said they could tell the car had been well maintained but obviously there's only so much you can find out by just giving the car a once over. Surgeline charges $180 to check the turbo and engine health so that's probably something I should do as well before I start dumping money into it. Honestly, checking the turbo yourself isn't that hard. Not sure what's included in the $180 though. As these cars age they almost force you to become somewhat of a mechanic so you can fix the tiny things that break with age. My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Allow me to ask if a retune is necessary after replacing the uppipe with an uncatted version. From what I've read, the turbo will spool up quicker after the catalyst restriction is removed. Is there really any benefit to replacing the downpipe? I know that improvements to the exhaust side are generally worth about 1/10th what you can get by improving the intake breathing. Yes a retune is needed. I think with the turbo spooling sooner the fueling doesn't hit at the right time...I think. Replacing the downpipe is only if you want more power. I am not sure where the 1/10th comes from...but on these cars a huge improvement can be made by replacing the stock downpipe. Honestly, checking the turbo yourself isn't that hard. Not sure what's included in the $180 though. As these cars age they almost force you to become somewhat of a mechanic so you can fix the tiny things that break with age. Not quite. Fueling is still based on air passing the MAF; therefore, fuel isn't based on spool or boost timing, it's based on air passing the sensor. Spooling quicker won't cause you to run lean. A tune is needed more because of the CEL caused by not having a resistor in place; a tune will 'tune' out that error. And also make everything else better. Agreed, a DP is worth the expense. UP, DP and a tune is where it's at. Get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20man Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I wish forums didn't have to be like this. Unfortunately this will probably be the end of this forum, people stop joining and asking questions because select people choose to be very rude and others let them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Nope it will be fine so long as "How do I do a burnout in these things?" isn't your very 1st post here. This or ask a question and piss all over the person who gave a legit answer because it wasn't what they wanted to hear. Life is hard, Subaru forums in general are harder. 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Often I think people get pissed at the people answering the questions, because they often don't directly answer the questions, or they're sarcastic and flippant, or just plain rude. Obviously if you can stand the fire, you're in. But that's not what draws people to a forum. Anyhow, getting way off topic here, back to the real question, how do I do a burnout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alligaeta Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I hate to bring this thread back on topic but I have a couple more questions. I just bought everything I need to go stage 2; AP, UP, DP, and all the required gaskets. but reading through maineSubie's thread about going stock to stage 2 I'm having second thoughts. My car has 10k less than his (133,000) but MrTris and the gang are saying that going stage 2 would be a bad idea because it will likely make his engine's short remaining life span even shorter. So with 133,000 should I even waste my time? I honestly would consider selling it if in 30-40k miles the whole things going to blow and I'm going to have to spend another $5-8,000 on it. Im getting married this summer and just don't have the option of making this my hobby car. Should I just replace the turbo and stay stage 1 or will it even make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Except the pee part, this thread is originally about you. No offense taken if it gets back on topic. It's your only car? I mean like besides fixed gear bikes briefly mentioned can this car see down time? Turbo and banjo bolts are critical and cheapest of worst case items to attack. The up sensor can be bypassed with a resistor. The shop I got tuned with did the resistor and covert has it in his build thread as well. Even with that being said, you still want to get off the stock tune so if you don't want to AP it, find a local shop and have them opensource you. They make a base tune and you guys either run down the street or on a dyno to dial it in. In all seriousness not to discredit the others, there are some 200k mile Turbo Leggys out there with like minimal parts changed and original short block. Same for 97 year olds who still smoke and die from other illnesses. Unfortunately I can't be that poster child as I sit at 85K going on to my 2nd short block and 3rd turbo. Preventative as this started out should help you get through your honeymoon of the car and, hopefully the wife to be as well. Turbos are cheaper than tearing the engine apart and buying a beater car to get you to and from work to afford to finish the engine work. 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alligaeta Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Unfortunately this is my only car and daily driver. Which is really where most of my concern comes from; McMinnville isn't exactly a metropolis so I already drive to school every day in Portland and will likely be doing the same thing for work when I graduate here in a few months. That's about 70 miles a day, give or take, and 350 a week. In 3 years of going to school an average of 4 days a week and having summers off I put 40k on my previous subie ha. And that is really what most scares me; I'm likely going to be putting a ton of miles on this car very quickly and I'm wondering if it's even worth my time, effort, and money. I installed the AP yesterday so I'm off the stock tune and was going to have the banjo filters removed at the same time as the UP & DP install. I figured I would check the turbo for shaft play during the install as well and if there was any sign of it starting to go then I would have it rebuilt/replaced. But again, if the engine is going to go anyways in what will only be a couple years with how much I drive every day, then it doesn't seem worth it. I would rather sell it to some one who will make it last and buy myself a commuter that I won't feel bad about driving into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Unfortunately this is my only car and daily driver. Which is really where most of my concern comes from; McMinnville isn't exactly a metropolis so I already drive to school every day in Portland and will likely be doing the same thing for work when I graduate here in a few months. That's about 70 miles a day, give or take, and 350 a week. In 3 years of going to school an average of 4 days a week and having summers off I put 40k on my previous subie ha. And that is really what most scares me; I'm likely going to be putting a ton of miles on this car very quickly and I'm wondering if it's even worth my time, effort, and money. I installed the AP yesterday so I'm off the stock tune and was going to have the banjo filters removed at the same time as the UP & DP install. I figured I would check the turbo for shaft play during the install as well and if there was any sign of it starting to go then I would have it rebuilt/replaced. But again, if the engine is going to go anyways in what will only be a couple years with how much I drive every day, then it doesn't seem worth it. I would rather sell it to some one who will make it last and buy myself a commuter that I won't feel bad about driving into the ground. At this point in time, "making it last" is like eating ice-cream while standing in front of the freezer with the door open; it's still gonna melt. If you don't replace the SB and start over, someone else will. Or maybe someone won't -- it'll just get wholesaled from a dealer, bought by someone who doesn't know any better, and then eventually end up at a JY, stripped of parts, and then crushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaNu1142 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Contact me before that happens. Seriously... I'm looking for a stock grille to mod. Hook a brother up. Tits mcgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee07 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Go ahead and install the parts. The engine isn't gonna go out any sooner just cause of stage 2. It's just and only stage 2. Drive it normally and it'll be fine. Just don't redline every shift and do your normal maintenance and it'll make it to 250k on your "stage 2 parts". If stage 2 does that much wear and tear on your engine, I must be lucky. At 143k on Stage 3 and still on the stock longblock and transmission. If you're that worried, just leave it stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alligaeta Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well I wasn't worried at all until I saw MrTris telling a guy with 143k that his engine was on its way out haha. Maybe my engine will go to 200k but the real possibility that it won't has me a bit worried. I think I'm just going to go ahead and go stage 2, check the turbo for shaft play, replace it if it needs it and hope and pray that my engine is one of the good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.