veritas Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I tried searching this, to no avail. Check Engine light came on a few months ago...brought it to the dealer and he said EVAP and changed the gas cap. A few hundred miles later, light came on again. Brought it in and they said gas cap again. i tighten the crap out of the cap and it always feels like its barely tight when I go and put gas in the car. Every few hundred miles...anywhere from 100-600 miles before sit codes and every time they say EVAP. I got them to order a second gas cap which the put in...500 miles later, coded. Also (and I told them this) when I go to put gas in the car, i put the car in park and turn the engine off, remove the gas cap and fill the car up, tighten the cap and go to start the car...when i do the car immediately stalls upon starting. I reset the ignition and try again...the car starts. This happens EVERY time I get gas as long as I turn the car off. if I leave it running, nothing happens. The car has been doing this for as long as the EVAP coed has been happening. So fed up and done with this car. Anyone have any ideas or thoughts? I'm just so frustrated because when the dealer sees the code they tell me tighten the gas cap and thats all they are gonna do since thats the only code that comes up. 08' LGT 5 Eat 66k Thanks, Vin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Check the wires, I buddy at work just had a issue with his, when he went to install the new part he found a wire loose in the connector. He pushed the wire back in and take the part back. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Can you clarify, when you say "check the wires", where and what wires are you talking about. Thanks, Vin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Sounds to me the "dealer" isn't actually diagnosing the car..... Have the code scanned and put it the DTC here, i car run it thru Identifix and prolly repair it better then them. You could have numerous issues causing an EVAP code to pop up, from a bad valve, cracked hoses, charcoal canister. Could even be chewed on wires from a rodent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Sounds to me the "dealer" isn't actually diagnosing the car..... Have the code scanned and put it the DTC here, i car run it thru Identifix and prolly repair it better then them. You could have numerous issues causing an EVAP code to pop up, from a bad valve, cracked hoses, charcoal canister. Could even be chewed on wires from a rodent... There are miles of differences between your first gen and his '08, not the least of which is the EVAP system. The charcoal canisters have been done away with for many years now, so ignore that bit. Bad valve or cracked hoses are much more serious issues that will cause running problems, much greater than a failure to start after refueling. OP, do you mean to say that you've resorted to refueling with the car still running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Check the wires, I buddy at work just had a issue with his, when he went to install the new part he found a wire loose in the connector. He pushed the wire back in and take the part back. Do you mean the 02 sensor wires, or the EGT sensor wires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Gas cap is bad or check shut valve and hoses connecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo2701 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 i just disabled the code in ecutek havent had any issues for 50k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I don't know a lot about emissions control stuff, so I did some googling and came up with the following.. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. -There could be a problem with your charcoal canister near the back of the car, see attached image. There could be fuel inside it, a problem with one of the hoses going to it, or part of the drain is messed up. -There is a disconnected vacuum line in your engine bay. Check the lines going to the purge control solenoid valve and purge valve, the link below has a good picture of where these are. The diagram is for an '05-'06, so I'm not sure if this is the same on your '08. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88538&stc=1&d=1281363875 -I don't know the exact evap code you're getting, but it sounds like you're getting code p0457. I've attached the troubleshooting documents for this code from the factory service manual. I wonder if subaru checked the charcoal canister drain valve, and purge control solenoid valves as suggested by the service manual, among other things. From the reading I did it sounds like your stalling problem might be from excessive fuel vapors entering your engine after getting gas, which are burned off when you first start the car and stall, and when you try to start the car a second time the excessive vapors are now gone and the car starts normally. When you keep your car running while filling your tank, the car isn't overwhelmed by the amount of fuel vapors entering the engine as you fill your tank, and can burn them off as it runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 There are miles of differences between your first gen and his '08, not the least of which is the EVAP system. The charcoal canisters have been done away with for many years now, so ignore that bit. Bad valve or cracked hoses are much more serious issues that will cause running problems, much greater than a failure to start after refueling. OP, do you mean to say that you've resorted to refueling with the car still running? I haven't resorted to refueling with the car still running...sometimes I forget to turn it off (bad habit) but it only stalls if I do in fact turn the ignition off and refuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 There are miles of differences between your first gen and his '08, not the least of which is the EVAP system. The charcoal canisters have been done away with for many years now, so ignore that bit. Bad valve or cracked hoses are much more serious issues that will cause running problems, much greater than a failure to start after refueling. OP, do you mean to say that you've resorted to refueling with the car still running? Gas cap is bad or check shut valve and hoses connecting it. I'm on my second brand new gas cap, but I'lk make a note of the "shut valve and hoses" when I bring it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 I don't know a lot about emissions control stuff, so I did some googling and came up with the following.. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. -There could be a problem with your charcoal canister near the back of the car, see attached image. There could be fuel inside it, a problem with one of the hoses going to it, or part of the drain is messed up. -There is a disconnected vacuum line in your engine bay. Check the lines going to the purge control solenoid valve and purge valve, the link below has a good picture of where these are. The diagram is for an '05-'06, so I'm not sure if this is the same on your '08. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88538&stc=1&d=1281363875 -I don't know the exact evap code you're getting, but it sounds like you're getting code p0457. I've attached the troubleshooting documents for this code from the factory service manual. I wonder if subaru checked the charcoal canister drain valve, and purge control solenoid valves as suggested by the service manual, among other things. From the reading I did it sounds like your stalling problem might be from excessive fuel vapors entering your engine after getting gas, which are burned off when you first start the car and stall, and when you try to start the car a second time the excessive vapors are now gone and the car starts normally. When you keep your car running while filling your tank, the car isn't overwhelmed by the amount of fuel vapors entering the engine as you fill your tank, and can burn them off as it runs. Thanks for this info. Although I looked and can't seem to confirm weather or not my 08 does in fact have a Charcoal Canister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 The sensors have wires connected to them. Make sure the wires are seated in the connectors for the sensors that could throw that code. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 There are miles of differences between your first gen and his '08, not the least of which is the EVAP system. The charcoal canisters have been done away with for many years now, so ignore that bit. Bad valve or cracked hoses are much more serious issues that will cause running problems, much greater than a failure to start after refueling. OP, do you mean to say that you've resorted to refueling with the car still running? YA know.... between this comment and some of the others..... i take a bit of offense from it..... First off, big deal if i drive a 93, that doesn't matter when trying to help. I bounce around the different model years because I am in fact an ASE certified tech that has been doing this professionally for about 15 years, so i know just about ANY car. This is my shop i work at http://southbendautorepair.net/index.htm And yes, cars still have charcoal canisters, to this day... and at this point they will continue to have them, its the ONLY way to deal with the fuel vapors. I diagnose EVAP issues all the time... so i know EVAP systems.... doesnt matter if its Subaru, GM, Ford whatever.... they all function basically the same way... The reason i said get the code is because there are 11 EVAP DTC's for this specific model, that way no one is "guessing" as to which problem it could be...... thats why our shop uses Mitchell Prodemand and Identifix so we fix it right the first time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Nice landing page. If it makes a difference to you, I drove (and wrenched on) two first gen Legacies, including an EJ20g engine swap. I'm a BBSLCO-G. Since we're all just "guessing" at what the problem might be, I humbly submit that his ECU changed it's tune when he drove past the fridge magnet store. I'm an ASE Certified Tech, so I know this to be legit. His car has a computer in it, therefore, it's sensitive to electromagnetic fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 The code on my last bill was PO442...it also reads after that, "small EVAP leak." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Thanks for the update. Looks like the troubleshooting steps I posted earlier for p0457 are the same for p0442, but I updated the pictures regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Thanks bro, I printed them out and will bring them to the dealer when I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Thanks bro, I printed them out and will bring them to the dealer when I go. If by "dealer" you mean a Subaru Dealership, you're doing it wrong. And probably paying way more than you need to. Hop into the regional forums for your area and find out where the locals take their cars (hint: it's not the dealership) and call and make an appointment there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 Well i'm not paying right now since my warranty is good until this coming June or 80K...whichever comes first. They ask haven't been charging me my normal detectable every time i've come over the last 4-5 times because its been pretty constant. I haven't gone to another place also since this dealer is 5 minutes from where I live. I do get what your saying...if they continue not not be able to find the problem i'll probably hit a local shop and see whats up. I wanna get this taken care of as there is no way i'm keeping the car past the warranty/loan period. Thanks for the suggestions everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Just an update: they are saying its the charcoal canister, so they are ordering it. Everything else checks out. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harsho1 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Unless they have done a smoke test, they are just throwing parts at the problem. lots of dealerships do this for warranty claims as the warranty administrator doesn't know the proper way to claim diagnostic time so the tech just "guesses". A small evap leak is USUALLY a loose or damaged gas cap, as this is the part of the system that is used the most. You should insist on a smoke test (a machine pumps harmless "smoke" into the evap system to see where the leaks are) so that they can find out where the real leak is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritas Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Sorry forgot to mention, they DID in fact do a smoke test...couldn't find and leaks. Also said one of the lines going to the Charcoal Canister can sometimes get clogged with a spider web...that was clear as well, so they landed on replacing the canister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One_Mile_Up Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 My 08' Legacy 3.0R is having the same issues... except I'm not getting any codes. Out of nowhere the car just won't accept gas from the pump... I am on super empty and can't really even drive it anywhere - LoL... I guess I could see if I can get that charcoal canister out and hope and pray that that's indeed what the problem is Keep us posted veritas. Edit: On the way to drop my car off at the shop to have it looked at - I decided to try ONE more time (to make sure I wasn't crazy!) - I'll be a son of a gun if it didn't take the gas this time! I don't know why it's acting up - but now I know what to keep an eye on at least... That charcoal canister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Can you put gas in it from a gas can ? Have you googled that problem ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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