Scotty Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 We all know GM owns part of Subaru. We have the Saab 9-2 which is an Impreza. Now we have the Chevorlet Forester. Not kidding on this one. http://www.opel.es/content_data/AP/IN/en/GBPIN/001/BRANDSITE/index_forester.html# So what's next? Pontiac Legacy? Buick Legacy? Cadillac Legacy? Oldmobile Legacy? Saturn Legacy? Hummer Legacy? Or maybe they'll call it Liberty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 That's not even a real Chevy site... Weird. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthworm Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Holy crap! Is that for sale in India? That turns my stomach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Opel is an European division of GM, along with Vauxhall and Holden(Aus). The Pontiac GTO originally is a Holden Monaro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPSGuy Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I believe the Opel is a German company, now owned by GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Man, just seeing that bowtie on the front gives me chills. That is just wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claw Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 ^^^ what he said! Before you know it, they'll have different brands using the same platform. Kinda like the Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade/Yukon brothers... aargh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nKoan Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 So, this is like 2 year old news by now. Subaru has no market penetration in India. Chevorlet does. Therefore, it makes sense to sell the Forester under a well respected brand (in an area where it is actually well respected ). It makes business sense, so they don't have to spend aditional money advertising a non-existent (in India) brand. That, and Subaru makes a ton of money on every sale, because they don't have the overhead of shipping the vehicles to India, or marketing the vehicle, or supporting salesrooms. GM makes money, cause they are well, selling very well in India. Its a win, win all around, with the only potential loser being GM if the Chevrolet Forester doesn't sell as well as expected. The biggest danger we have of a GM branded Legacy in North America is a Saab 9-4x (or 9-5x or something) but after seeing the dismal sales of the 9-2x, I doubt it would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 GM doesn't make a decent vehicle anyway, why not rebadge good vehicles like subarus? They should rebadge the legacy as the impala, and they would sell 300,000 easily. GM is run by the most stupid peeps in american business today. They have no idea what their customers want. They talk about "heritage" but they think ppl will believe everything they say about their new appliance even though it has nothing whatsoever to do with the original. Then, they pump Harley Earl in their advertising. Who the hell knows who Harley Earl is besides car nuts? And how many of them are interested in buying GM shit? It's sad because America is losing its competitiveness through the stupidity and greed of the losers running GM (and ford, to a lesser extent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfxdave99 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Well apparently its working New Delhi, July 01, 2005: General Motors India sales registered a growth of over 42 percent in first half of 2005 as compared to same period last year. Selling 15297 cars between January and June 2005 as compared to 10737 in the first six months last year, the company recorded a 42.5% growth in YTD sales. These included 9703 units of Tavera, 3638 Optra, 1932 Corsa and 24 Foresters. General Motors India sold 2183 cars in June’05 as against 2418 cars in the same month last year as unprecedented rains and floods in Baroda disrupted production and dispatches in the month end. Its sales for the month included 1461 Taveras, 404 Chevrolet Optra, 315 Opel Corsas and 3 units of imported Forester SUV. Said Amit Dutta, Vice President – Marketing, Sales & Aftersales, General Motors India, “We lost sales of around 300 units as rains and floods hit our production and dispatches towards the month end.” The GM Service Plus programme piloted in NCR from end May has been a resounding success with customers. As part of this programme, dealer workshops are open 24x7 to service cars. In addition the innovation of a 3 hour quick service which guarantees refund of service charges to customers in case the time limit is exceeded has been a big hit. Over 500 customers have availed of this service and a random survey of this lot indicates that they have rated this innovation as excellent. Introduced in India in 2003, under the banner “For a Special Journey Called Life”, the Chevrolet brand was named "The Best Automotive Brand of the Year 2004" by BS Motoring. Besides Tavera, two other Chevy products, Optra Luxury sedan and Forester SUV have between them cornered seven awards to date. GM India is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors Corporation. Besides the Chevrolet Optra, GM India manufactures the Chevrolet Tavera, Opel Corsa, Opel Corsa Sail and Opel Swing at its facility in Halol, Gujarat. GM India also sells the imported Opel Vectra and Chevrolet Forester. If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfxdave99 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Wait, LOL i just re-read that.. they sold 24 chevy forresters in a month... HAHAHAHAH If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axis008 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 24 huh. Talk about exclusivity. Well, in India at least. -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direavenger Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Chevrolet brand was named "The Best Automotive Brand of the Year 2004" by BS Motoring BS stands for bullshit, right? The Dude - Two inches and counting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
type b Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 lol .es is spain, and Chevy over in Europe is Daewoo by another name - one of the cheapest brands you can buy. Wonder if they'll do an STi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Lots of domestic bashing going on here. Honestly you can't judge an entire company by their low end cars. I think the new Z06 is the hottest thing on the market. Some of the best engine "engineering" EVER. 500 HP and it gets 21 MPG. Chevy/GMC makes some really awesome trucks and conversion vehicles too. I agree that the cavaleir and sunfire and gran am suck ass but a big company has more room to make crap all the way up to a sweet Caddy STS/Escalade/etc. Subaru only has a few cars so they can't make crap they would fail but they also don't sell a ton of cars to the "I can only afford $14,000 POS crowd" I hold nothing against GM or any domestics for that matter. Don't forget that most all people don't give a rats ass about the car and HP and slalom and TQ. They need here to there at the cheapest cost you can get it to them for. We are exceptions therfore we criticize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Lots of domestic bashing going on here. Honestly you can't judge an entire company by their low end cars. I think the new Z06 is the hottest thing on the market. Some of the best engine "engineering" EVER. 500 HP and it gets 21 MPG. Chevy/GMC makes some really awesome trucks and conversion vehicles too. I agree that the cavaleir and sunfire and gran am suck ass but a big company has more room to make crap all the way up to a sweet Caddy STS/Escalade/etc. Subaru only has a few cars so they can't make crap they would fail but they also don't sell a ton of cars to the "I can only afford $14,000 POS crowd" I hold nothing against GM or any domestics for that matter. Don't forget that most all people don't give a rats ass about the car and HP and slalom and TQ. They need here to there at the cheapest cost you can get it to them for. We are exceptions therfore we criticize Corvette - so what. fast in a straight line, loved by fewer than love the legacy. Trucks - again who cares. Thanks to morons driving these things we are going to have $5 gas. The government, prodded by GM and ford, classifies the pt cruiser and station wagons as trucks so more assholes can waste gas in hummers. And there's no problem right? "Cadillac" and "sweet" in the same sentence. Um, no. Anyway what I'm bitching about is the decay of our auto industry while the germans and japanese relentlessly improve performance and efficiency while lowering costs. All that GM is capable of is slapping in a bigger 50 yr old engine into a car, licensing good technology from others, and buying up more and more reject fisher price toys to put into the interiors of their "sweet" corvettes and cadillacs. Ugh. GM is embarrasingly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 There's a simple way to tell regular GM quality and Euro/Aussie quality. Just visit your nearby Pontiac dealer and jump into a new GTO. Then turn the signal switch. Now jump into any other GM vehicle and flip the turn signal switch. GM uses a lot of cheap plastic to save money. GTO being a Aussie car can't stoop down to those standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Corvette? Fast in straight line? Yes! Fast in the corners? Yes! Nothing even comes close to it for all-around performance for the dollar. If you want to track race a car, the Corvette is in the top five in terms of performance, aftermarket support, parts availability, and reasonable cost to race. Better by far than anything Subaru or any import has to offer. Subaru raised the ride height of the Outback...and guess what? It is now considered a truck! Guess Subaru was a little slow and has learned something from the domestics. And this is from a company that is all touchy-feely about the environment! Subaru has some of the dirtiest engines on the road, and now a vehicle they advertise as an alternative to an SUV is considered an SUV by the government! Cadillac CTS-V? XLR? The new STS-V? Come-on, you might not think they are cool, but one part domestic V8 with one part European-tuned handling and makes for a potent combination! Oh, and the Corvette gets better highway mileage and has cleaner/equal emissions than our LGT motors...and produces 400HP! -B -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Corvette? Fast in straight line? Yes! Fast in the corners? Yes! Nothing even comes close to it for all-around performance for the dollar. If you want to track race a car, the Corvette is in the top five in terms of performance, aftermarket support, parts availability, and reasonable cost to race. Better by far than anything Subaru or any import has to offer. Subaru raised the ride height of the Outback...and guess what? It is now considered a truck! Guess Subaru was a little slow and has learned something from the domestics. And this is from a company that is all touchy-feely about the environment! Subaru has some of the dirtiest engines on the road, and now a vehicle they advertise as an alternative to an SUV is considered an SUV by the government! Cadillac CTS-V? XLR? The new STS-V? Come-on, you might not think they are cool, but one part domestic V8 with one part European-tuned handling and makes for a potent combination! Oh, and the Corvette gets better highway mileage and has cleaner/equal emissions than our LGT motors...and produces 400HP! -B Thanks beanboy. My points EXACTLY. People seem to be blinded by thinking that the car and brand they own is the best!!! Subaru is the bestest!!!! hahaha. Subaru engines are VERY dirty. The turbo engines are something like a 8.5 out of 10 on high pollution motors. While the Covette that will run circles around the LGT, STI, EVO, UMM practiaclly anything you name in ALL catagories except wet and snow. The Cassdys are in the same class as the equally priced German and Jap cars too. They just stop at 60k while the others go up into the 100k's so again you can't compare apples to really expensive apples. 50 year old motor technology is still leading this market in pure power so you have no case there. A 6.5 liter 400 HP pushrod is getting equal or better MPG then our 4 cyl. Try to be unbiased in your arguments. I OWN a subaru and love it. But GM does have some pretty sweet stuff if you look. Even the new Saturn sport coupe convertible is cool as is the pontiac one. GM is doing ok. They just offer a TON of vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubieGuy Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 First of all, this has been going on for YEARS. Subaru is just the latest offer. Suzuki Sidekick and Vitara = Geo Tracker Toyota Corolla = Geo (then later) Chevy Prism (or Prizm, who cares!) Isuzu made the Geo Storm and I'm sure there are TONS I am forgetting. I saw an article about this a couple of years ago, that Chevy was going to make "minor cosmetic chages" to a Forester and sell it as theirs. Thought it would be available here, but it hasn't been so far. It's funny how people will buy a product with an American company's badge on it even though they would never CONSIDER the same vehicle sold by it's real company. My father in law wouldn't buy a Subaru (even though he knows I had good luck with mine!) because it was a Japanese car. So he bought a Toyota Matrix, er, I mean Pontiac Vibe instead! LMFAO! Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I've said it before, been flame-broiled, and I'll say it again. It would be crazy if the small-block V8 WASN'T fast after 50 years. Also if it didn't have aftermarket support, parts availability, and reasonable cost. No other engine has had that kind of engineering time. And it had better be cheap to buy, because a sports car with leaf springs and an engine in common with trucks should be! I wouldn't buy a corvette anyway, but I certainly wouldn't pay 911 Turbo money for one, when the 911 Turbo is the alternative. Or the Aston AMV8, which is a bit closer in configuration. Yes, I know I am oversimplifying. The corvette will always seem to ME to be a pretender to the sports car throne. It is the "bigger hammer" approach to sports car building, and that has never been what most other sports cars were about. Better mouse trap, maybe. Not "just get a bigger hammer." Bigger hammer philosophy is pure muscle car mantra. It may be successful, it may work, as long as the hammer is a 10-lb sledge, and can smash everything else. But it still is simply a bigger hammer. Corvette, Viper, and even the S7 seem like they are all american sledgehammers, when the rest of the world is building power tools. They seem like super muscle cars masquerading as sports cars and supercars. Give me a slightly slower, but more rewarding sports car, like a Porsche, any day of the week. There is more to life than the quarter-mile. I am just wondering how you come up with Subaru having dirty engines... I have heard no such thing. And BTW, Subaru doesn't choose how to classify their cars. The government does. If Subaru built the Outback low enough to classify as a car, they'd have to re-badge them back to Legacy. Subaru provides what customers want to buy (and Outback outsells Legacy probably 4-1) and the government bureaucracy decides how to regulate it, and usually not the best way. That is the government for you. The -V cadillacs might be potent. Might even be decent handlers. IF you can stand to look at one. I thought the CTS was a nice looking car. As it ages, it is doing just that. Aging. A car like that shouldn't look old-news already, but it does; to me anyway. The CTS-V is again the bigger hammer theory. not that it isn't effective, but not everyone likes that. Count me as one, even if you don't count yourself. Does the Corvette cost 30k, and hold 4-5 people, and a trunk full of stuff? Didn't think so. Comparing a Corvette and a Legacy is like comparing Apples to lug nuts. Of course the corvette makes 400hp and less emissions. It has had half a century to prove and test that engine, and 400hp isn't exactly over-stressing a 6-liter engine. That is less than 70hp per liter, not exactly the highest specific output ever. It just happens to be BIG to compensate. It is frankly amazing that an engine significantly less than half the size with half the cylinders makes nearly 3/4ths of that power figure in the Legacy GT. (more than 3/4ths of that figure in the WRX STi.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 How about the Toyota Cavalier? http://www.japan-partner.com/images/094f1e13ca/926eda8150_t.jpg http://pit.finiteloop.org/~toli/gallery/albums/nzRoadtrip/roadtrip_12.sized.jpg All Toyota Cavaliers were built in Lordstown, Ohio. Built between 1995-2000 and shipped to Japan. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JessterCPA Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 A Cadillac Escalade/Legacy would be cool. 20's, big chrome grill. Make a long wheelbase version too, call it the GTESV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I would be laughing harder than the guy in the second pic of the "toyota". Wouldn't that lower the reliability rating of Toyota cars? Cavaliers of the Chevy variety around my area are almost all falling apart. Maybe the toyota badges make the thing stone-reliable... That is hilarious, and shows the inbreeding in the automotive industry! At least we hear about something being shipped from the US to Japan besides dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Nooooooooooo there all gonna laugh at us!!!! Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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