Mblock66 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I have Whiteline F/R coming this week. I was thinking of putting the rear on first and the the front later as you did. So is your conclusion that F+R > R alone? I got the Front super cheap so if just rear alone is better then it isn't a huge loss. Now much "lean" is gone with just rear and then how much with both? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 F+R > R. Rear is easier to install. Front is PITA! unless you have a lift...or way to jack it up real high. Even with jackstands, it's a bit tight...and man, those 10 or so bolts are TOUGH! to get off. With just the rear, the front still felt 'squishy' for lack of better terminology. Think about going around a rotary (somewhere near Rt. 206, in NJ) and the rear bar makes the rear nice and stable. The front, however, seems to 'hobble' along...and doesn't feel as solid, as the springs/struts just bounce all over the place. Then, I put the front bar in...and going around the same rotary, the front no longer hobbles along. The springs and struts seem to do more of their job. The car goes where I want it to go, and the rear just follows through. The lean is significantly less, with both. Corners are easier to handle, and not sloppy anymore. Yes, there is a bit more NVH, but the gf didn't think much of it...and hasn't complained...so I figure it passes that test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I love having a stiffer rear.. but if someone gave me the option of a larger front sway than a 23mm, I would do just that.. adding sways to your car should be a preference to your driving. It's not something that you just tack on to make the car handle better in general. Rally car drivers dont even use sways. I only had a rear sway on my WRX set to the stiffest setting while the front was stock.. it's a preference to your driving, not a mod that makes the car better.. remember, you should mod the car that will make you go faster, not just the car. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 ^^So when these people bolt on the aftermarket F+R sways and report back with better handling, stabilized cornering & better over-all maneuverability....... it's in their head? This is a serious question too, because these products are on my list (towards the top) and the idea for me is to tighten up the cornering and reduce lean because I have a mountainous drive with wicked fun curves to drive every day to work. I was planning to throw on these sways & a set of ion or maybe Tein springs to start with better rubber, so that I can enjoy this machine much more on a daily basis. It's kinda slushy right now. It is the disposition of men to desire that which he cannot have, hence my un-quenchable wet desire for Shakira! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukonart Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 So a car with massive body roll wouldn't necessarily benefit from larger swaybars? I don't know about you, but I can't think of too many driving styles where crap-tons of lateral roll is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I ask because I KNOW I'll be registering for a full season of RMSOLOII next year in the Street Prepared class (lazy this year) and I don't think I'll be able to afford the coil-overs, so I'm planning springs & these sway bars. I just don't quite fully understand Keefe's post. It is the disposition of men to desire that which he cannot have, hence my un-quenchable wet desire for Shakira! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantona156 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 For those with the uprated sway bars, do you have any problems with the front lower arm rear bushes? Heard the increase loads may prematurely kill the bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 For those with the uprated sway bars, do you have any problems with the front lower arm rear bushes? Heard the increase loads may prematurely kill the bushings. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, not have I heard about anything as such. I ran a larger rear sway on the WRX that I had for almost 2 years, without any issues. Though, I do have lower arm bars for both front and rear waiting to go onto the car...so I doubt I will have this issue in the long run. I will report back on how that install goes...I just have to do it before winter gets here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Installed my front sway bar last night. I don't know what people were saying but this one was easier then the rear I think. I just pulled it up on some ramps. I didn't even take off my plastic shield under the car, just undid the one bolt in the back and pulled it down some so I could get to the 2 bolts holding the metal brace. The brace was easy to take on and off too, a breaker bar helps though. I would say I did the front in 45 minutes. I am using the stock endlinks both front and rear. As for handling, the car handles very nice, roll has been reduced and I just love the way it feels now. If you push it you can get some oversteer, but I think its pretty neutral right now, taking long turns are amazing now. On and off ramps I can take at a much higher speed and feel very comfortable. I also noticed the tires squeal less now, I assume from some of the load being pushed back on the other side now because of the stiffer sway bars. So overall a very good, cheap and simple mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Awesome I can't wait to get mine on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 Installed my front sway bar last night. I don't know what people were saying but this one was easier then the rear I think. I just pulled it up on some ramps. I didn't even take off my plastic shield under the car, just undid the one bolt in the back and pulled it down some so I could get to the 2 bolts holding the metal brace. The brace was easy to take on and off too, a breaker bar helps though. I would say I did the front in 45 minutes. I am using the stock endlinks both front and rear. The highlighted part, in bold...how'd you do that? How many bolts did you remove, all together, to get in out? I had to remove 10-12 bolts, or something like that. Whatta pain of a time I had...but, it's all in now...so no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 This might be a really obvious answer but I will ask it anyway. Will haveing F/R sways and a front strut tower brace help the car at all in a straight line acceleration now? I am going to the Track this Friday and if my sways get here thursday would it be beneficial for me to get them on THAT night so they are on for Friday? If not they will have to wait until saturday or sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I don't see them improving straight line performance any. If anything might make you a little slower because they weigh a bit more It really only helps in lateral movement. As for taking off the metal brace, It was the one with 10-12 bolts, the one covering up the sway bar. All I did was take off the one bolt holding the plastic shield and then pulled it down (it has to latch type things to the left and right of that one bolt that you have to pull down sort of to pop it off) Once I did that I could get a socket wrench to the last 2 bolts on the metal brace. Those are the ones that had the nut and bolt, so you have to use a wrench to keep the nut from spinning. It's a little tight but deffinetly easier then taking that plastic shield off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickDastardly00 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I just got off the phone with an aftermarket Car Parts shop that I ordered the Cusco F/R Sway bars from. I was waiting for an Install/Labor quote from them. They said "Both bars should take a total of 3 hours to install, and should be around $195 total for the installation. I then replied " Hmm, sounds a bit high, I was figuring around $120 and I doubt the install will take 3 hours, it should be more like two hours. They responded with "well, we will definitely charge you accordingly, if it only takes two hours, then that is all we will charge you for". The labor rate is around $65 per hour, and I think that is normal.. What do you guys think of this labor quote? Fair, or a little too high? They have a lift and everything in there garage, does it really take 3 hours to put the bars in? Keep in mind, I'm using the stock endlinks and everything, The bars are fixed too. ♪Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; None but ourselves can free our minds.♫ -Bob Marley, Redemption Song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 I just got off the phone with an aftermarket Car Parts shop that I ordered the Cusco F/R Sway bars from. I was waiting for an Install/Labor quote from them. They said "Both bars should take a total of 3 hours to install, and should be around $195 total for the installation. I then replied " Hmm, sounds a bit high, I was figuring around $120 and I doubt the install will take 3 hours, it should be more like two hours. They responded with "well, we will definitely charge you accordingly, if it only takes two hours, then that is all we will charge you for". The labor rate is around $65 per hour, and I think that is normal.. What do you guys think of this labor quote? Fair, or a little too high? They have a lift and everything in there garage, does it really take 3 hours to put the bars in? Keep in mind, I'm using the stock endlinks and everything, The bars are fixed too. Seems abit much for something you can do yourself, in under a couple of hours...and that's even if things don't go your way! I would understand if you wechanically inclined, and can't lift the car up by yourself... The rear bar in itself is not hard, as all you have to do it take off the old bar, get it out (which takes a little patience), and then put the new one in, the same way the old one came out. The front one, to me, was a little harder than the rear. All in all, it only took about an hour or so more than the rear one...but seeing that Kanos did it a little quicker, I would suggest you try it yourself. If you still want the garage to do it...I would figure if they have a lift, it won't take them more than 30-40 minutes per bar....as long as they know what they are doing. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I am going to attempt them myself this weekend. Maybe I will try to take some pics so that people can see that it isn't that bad. I am by far not a good wrench turner but I can get the job done with some good instruction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickDastardly00 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Seems abit much for something you can do yourself, in under a couple of hours...and that's even if things don't go your way! I would understand if you wechanically inclined, and can't lift the car up by yourself... The rear bar in itself is not hard, as all you have to do it take off the old bar, get it out (which takes a little patience), and then put the new one in, the same way the old one came out. The front one, to me, was a little harder than the rear. All in all, it only took about an hour or so more than the rear one...but seeing that Kanos did it a little quicker, I would suggest you try it yourself. If you still want the garage to do it...I would figure if they have a lift, it won't take them more than 30-40 minutes per bar....as long as they know what they are doing. Good luck. Initially I thought to install them myself, but I don't have a lift (or ramps), and I don't have a Torque Wrench (price=$120). So I just figiured I would have a shop do it, and it would cost about $100 to $120 or so. I forgot to mention that he called the local Subaru dealership and got a rate quote from them on the install of the sway bars, then he based his quote off theirs. ♪Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; None but ourselves can free our minds.♫ -Bob Marley, Redemption Song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 I rented a torque wrench from Autozone...(dunno if you have 'em in Washington...) but other parts stores around you area will rent them out to you. Then, you will have ramps, and a TW, and have saved yourself 120 - 200 towards the AP fund!!! I dunno...I saved myself the hassle of going to a shop...for the bars. Now, the lower control arms bars, well, that's another story...as the bolts/etc sit a little futher back. I might have a mechanic install them on the side...to save some on the labor rate. Might try that, as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickDastardly00 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 That would be nice to have a little extra $$$ in my pocket for the AP, that is for sure. ♪Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; None but ourselves can free our minds.♫ -Bob Marley, Redemption Song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Do you really even need a TW? I haven't used one yet and I have done an UP and DP, thermostat switch and two pullies. No issues whatsoever....... I know that it is the "right" thing to do but I don't have one and I just make them REALLY tight and put a little anti seize on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 No, you don't really need one...however, it would save lots of hassle, if something is too tight. As for the endlink bolts, you don't need a heck of a lot of torque...though I can't seem to remember the specs off hand. It's always nice to go on vacation, and check the pictures, to remind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickDastardly00 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Something is bothering me, why would he call the Subaru dealership and get a rate quote from them? Does he plan on contracting it out lol? If I wanted a dealership labor quote, then I would've just called them myself! ♪Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; None but ourselves can free our minds.♫ -Bob Marley, Redemption Song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 Dude, trust me, do it yourself. I am far from a mechanic...nor do I pretend to be one. But if you could use a screwdriver, a hammer, and have some common sense, this install is a NO brainer! Also, you could check www.scoobymods.com for a thread that has the installation/pictures for a WRX, but on the same token, it's pretty similar to the LGT. Only difference is the dual cans, in the LGT. Up to you though...but I would definately save the money. Of course, if you don't feel comfortable, then go ahead and have it done through the mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 inthedeck did you jack up the rear and put it on jackstands to do the rear or did you use ramps? I know it would be pretty difficult to get a car up on ramps in reverse but it can be done. Since I know another member said they did the front on ramps I ust wondered if you could do the rear on ramps as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedeck Posted September 28, 2005 Author Share Posted September 28, 2005 I just lifted one side of the car, with a jack. Didn't have to do much else, except take the tire off, the endlink bolts off, the bar out, bar back in, endlink bolts back on, tire back on, and lower the car. I don't think the exhaust would clear the ramps that I have, which is why I decided to not do it that way. My brother's 2.5RS clears them, and so, we used ramps to do his...lemme tell ya, there was MUCH more space down there, than with just the jack. Yet, with the jack, it was still easy enough to do. I know there are certain low-profile ramps out there, that our cars will clear, but I figured the jack and handbrake would be sufficient. EDIT: Though it is much easier to have the car on ramps, as that maintains constant pressure. on the suspension, making it easier to remove/install the bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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