Remove or replace?

[sunny5280]

I just purchased a 2005 Outback XT. Thanks to the advice of some forum members I investigated the banjo bolt issue and it looks like a simple, preventative step to take to increase the longevity of my turbo.

 

With that said what is the consensus for doing this? Should I merely remove the filter out of the existing bolt? Or is it better to buy a new one, remove the filter, and then install that one? I've already picked up a couple of the copper washers but held off on the bolt. It seems to me, being merely a bolt, I would be able to reuse the existing one.

 

Thoughts?

[Max Capacity]

You do know the bolt is located on the back of the head. I have both of them removed using the stock oil feed line.

 

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x40/92Si/DSCN4770.jpg

 

You can reuse the old bolt.

 

Make sure you have the correct washers, did you get them from the dealer ?

[Tehnation]

Depends, if you mod, you will most likely get an aftermarket filtered line. At that point most people remove it because it sucks. But if your average joe doing average joe things then keep it stock imo.

 

I thought the consensus was Subaru themselves said to get rid of it?

[covertrussian]

Just remove them from the original bolts, unless they are stripped/rusted. New washers are a must (which you already got).

[MrTris]

Depends, if you mod, you will most likely get an aftermarket filtered line. At that point most people remove it because it sucks. But if your average joe doing average joe things then keep it stock imo.

 

I thought the consensus was Subaru themselves said to get rid of it?

 

It doesn't matter. It's not a performance mod -- it's a health, safety and longevity mod -- Taking out that filter and ensuring that you get regular oil changes with quality oil will mean that you engine won't go kaboom.

[Tehnation]

Its hard to say without knowing what type of owner he is! If he is checking and changing his own oil yea, but I notice a lot of people don't do anything with their cars and depend solely on their dealership/mechanic.

 

And if thats the case and your running 100% stock, and you remove it, without having an aftermarket solution or not staying on top of your oil changes and beating the crap out of it... then I would say keep the filter but make sure to have it checked periodically like it should be.

 

If Subaru techs were told to remove it during maintenance then your probably right, but if the stealership is leaving it in then I would follow suit! Some filter is better than no filter.

[sunny5280]

Again...thanks for the feedback guys. As for the type of owner I am. I'm not a modder...I'm pretty much stock when it comes to my vehicles. This modification would be done for longevity. I'm also not the racer / hard charger kind of driver so this will see some spirited but not hard use. I do maintain my vehicles both preventative (for instance I replaced all the fluids when I purchased my 1997 so I knew when they were last done, plan to do the same with this one since I don't know) and scheduled maintenance. I'm also OCD about keeping them clean and in good working order. I'll do certain things as DIY but know when to take it to the mechanic.

 

With that said I don't want to needlessly spend money. I'd like to avoid spending $1K on the turbo unless there's a good possibility its failure would cause even more damage. My discussion with the Subaru dealer (Max, I did obtain the washers from the dealer) led me to the conclusion the majority of turbo failures they see don't result in further engine damage (but they stated it is a possibility...there are no guarantees). Yes, they did recommend removing the filter. Stated it's one of the primary reasons for turbo failure. Surprised they sell the new part with the filter (they didn't have an explanation either).

 

The intent is to remove the filter and do regular oil changes. I am somewhat mechanically inclined so I hope such knowledge would allow me to identify a potential turbo failure before it does itself, and something else, in. This is the unknown for me. If there's some indication it's on its way out that would be preferable. If it just gives up the ghost without warning that's the worry. I may spend the money to replace the turbo just in case. Is it the general consensus if I remove this filter and perform proper oil changes the turbo should be OK (assuming it's in good shape now)? Or is the thought it's at some point going to go?

[Max Capacity]

The thought on removing it is, dirty oil is better then no oil.

 

If you do regular oil changes, you'll be fine.

 

Like I said, I removed both, the front one before the new SB was assembled. My SB had nothing to do with this issue so don't think that.

 

There are very few guy that put turbos on Honda's and install a filter. Most just slap on the turbo and go.

[sunny5280]

The thought on removing it is, dirty oil is better then no oil.

 

I was wondering about this. If the purpose of the filter is to keep contaminants from entering the turbo then doing so would eventually result in blocking the oil into the turbo. So in essence, like you said, dirty is better than none. The only way having a filter would make sense is to make it easily serviced.

[covertrussian]

The real issue is Subaru suggesting 7k mile oil change intervals and dino oil or Mobile 1. Use any other synthetic and change it every 3k miles and you will be perfectly fine without the filters.

 

Don't newer cars (07+) not even have the filters?

[Taylormclean]

I work on huge turbo engines. They all have bypass valves as to when the filter is too clogged they have dirty oil rather than no oil. We change the oil (which isn't the funnest thing in the world of turbofan engines) every 120 days. I can't see why a car engine would be much different. Be on time and orderly with maintenance and don't beat around the bush and things will go accordingly.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Max Capacity]

The real issue is Subaru suggesting 7k mile oil change intervals and dino oil or Mobile 1. Use any other synthetic and change it every 3k miles and you will be perfectly fine without the filters.

 

Don't newer cars (07+) not even have the filters?

 

 

Even with dino oil and up to 5000 mile oil changes and Fram filters my vf40 lasted 142,000 miles. I used to post that I used whatever 5w-30 was on sale at walmart, normally Mobil 5000, in the winter I would go as far as 5500+ miles. Again mine are mostly highway miles. When the turbo went, it gave me warning so I caught it before it got to bad.

[sunny5280]

Even with dino oil and up to 5000 mile oil changes and Fram filters my vf40 lasted 142,000 miles. I used to post that I used whatever 5w-30 was on sale at walmart, normally Mobil 5000, in the winter I would go as far as 5500+ miles. Again mine are mostly highway miles. When the turbo went, it gave me warning so I caught it before it got to bad.

What were the symptoms of the impending failure?

[Max Capacity]

In Feb 2011 got the P0011 P0021 CEL, while in CC 70mph, trusted mechanic removed the banjo filter, I flushed the oil system, and changed the oil. He said to listen to the turbo. It whined for 1000 miles. Then one morning, mid Aug, 1/2 mile from the house it whistled, I turned around, drove back home, got the other car. If you search google for 142,000 miles on a OEM turbo, the thread should pop up.

 

I had a plan in place, I emailed Mike at www.AZPinstalls.com and ordered the vf52 in the morning, had it the next day. Installed it that weekend. Went to the dyno a couple days later. Tuned it at 21psi.

 

Still on dino oil. (till 154,000 miles and new ej257)

[Merc6]

My turbo went "woop woop woop woop woop" while I was just short of the turnpike entrance. When I went to pull off to the side of the road, lack of boost and metallic popcorn sound occurred. Exhaust wheel separated and sprayed a oil/coolant mixture into the downpipe.

 

 

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[sunny5280]

That was an informative thread Max. I am feeling more comfortable about the turbo now. I get the impression there are two types of turbo failure: Normal wear which appears to be primarily related to worn bearings and catastrophic which appears to be primarily related to oil starvation. Normal wear looks to provide symptoms which, if addressed in time, will mean only a turbo replacement. Removal of the banjo bolt filter seems to be a great way to head off catastrophic failure. Does this sound about right?

[sunny5280]

I decided to check out the price of turbos. Typing "VF40" into Google resulting in all kinds of options ranging from rebuild parts to new OEM turbos. The OEM turbo was the most expensive option with other options, some found on Ebay, as low as $350. I assume this is one of those parts where you get what you pay for applies and thus I shouldn't consider something from Ebay @ $350? What are people's thoughts on rebuilding? I'm not a professional mechanic but do know my way around vehicles. Something a novice backyard mechanic could perform? Or should I just take it to my mechanic (where it's probably be cheaper just to replace the entire turbo)?

 

Not that I'm going to do any of this immediately but something I'd consider doing if the cost weren't too high.

[Max Capacity]

FWIW, I still have the old filter in my desk drawer here at work. It's about 50% blocked. Like I said I have both filter removed. I've posted in a # of threads, my ej257 is on Amsoil European 5w-40 and their oil filter at 7000+ miles OCI. Again 90 % of my driving is highway miles.

 

I've been a mechanic most of my life, I bought a new turbo...you've seen my click here link in my sig, again, I bought a new turbo.

 

 

From the years on this forum I've also learned these cars like to be driven, they don't do well in short trips and stop and go traffic.

[MrTris]

You can also have your old turbo rebuilt -- runs about $500 at most places, like Alamo. (Alamo turbo, not the rental car place. )

 

-OR- (I highly suggest this option)

 

You send a PM to JmP6889928 and ask about his turbo rebuild services. Prices and options range, however, I'm running one of his billet wheels in a stock VF40, which, I must say, is quite nice. In the future, there will be a ball-bearing version/(s).

 

I'm very happy with what I received, and it's a nice jump up from the standard power level. See my build thread for pics of the new unit. Also, you get to know that you supported another member's endeavor to use his skills to help out the community, and that's what's really important. *themoreyouknowrainbow*

[Tehnation]

For some reason these cars and oil don't seem to get along....

 

You can do the job yourself, might as well replace the uppipe while your at it. The cat in the up pipe has been know to take the turbo when pieces of it get loose!

 

But it can turn into a nightmare really quick... the turbo inlet may get damaged if you don't know what your doing.. putting the oil drain hose back on is a pita, the only thing easy about removing/replacing turbo is the downpipe. I recommend doing the job with someone who has some mechanic experience and a 30 pack of beer.... and plan for it taking two days! Also have the dealership on standby for any broken parts! An 05 is already almost 10 years old and some times things break rather than come apart.

 

I think you can use one from an sti.

 

I think BNR rebuilds turbos for 375!

[sunny5280]

For some reason these cars and oil don't seem to get along....

 

You can do the job yourself, might as well replace the uppipe while your at it. The cat in the up pipe has been know to take the turbo when pieces of it get loose!

 

But it can turn into a nightmare really quick... the turbo inlet may get damaged if you don't know what your doing.. putting the oil drain hose back on is a pita, the only thing easy about removing/replacing turbo is the downpipe. I recommend doing the job with someone who has some mechanic experience and a 30 pack of beer.... and plan for it taking two days! Also have the dealership on standby for any broken parts! An 05 is already almost 10 years old and some times things break rather than come apart.

 

I think you can use one from an sti.

 

I think BNR rebuilds turbos for 375!

 

If I decide to replace the turbo it's likely I'll have my mechanic do the work. I've reached a point in my life where I don't have the time to do such work.

[Tehnation]

Its not as bad as i made it seem

 

Depends on the situation are you reusing coolant lines? Do you have a new oil drain stem and gasket?

 

You remove, intercooler, heat shield, 2 coolant lines, turbo inlet, oil feed, downpipe, uppipe, and bottom oil return clamp and yank it up, then its out! Then do it all in reverse, not necessarily in that order!

[covertrussian]

No filter is better then this. Previous owner lost a turbo and had a shop stick another used turbo without pulling the filters, sadly not sure how much damage the new turbo got from running this dirty filter...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t188/covertrussian/Cars/05%20LGT/Engine/General/Banjo%20Filters/CIMG0678.jpg~original

[FknBoss]

Remove. I've had multiple turboed cars and turboed a few. No one had a filter in the banjo but the subarus.

[sunny5280]

I'm going to attempt to remove the filter tomorrow morning. Is the filter fairly easy to remove from the bolt? I get the impression from looking a covertrussian's picture it is fairly easy.